Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

[Glitch]

Feels like we’ve had this debate before.

 

[JacketVol]

Why does that look like a flop to me....

And the Bama LG gets away with a hold that isn’t called.

 

[RikidyBones]

It's not the class ranking by Rivals or 247 that matters. It's the coaches' evals of players, player development, and schemes. Clemson beat Bama for a NC with the #14, #13, #6 and #4 ranked classes per Rivals for 2013-2016. About the same talent Butch had to work with in the same period, but he topped out with 9-4. Bama had #1, #1, #2, and #1 with Saban in the same period, yet still lost to Clemson while destroying Butch's teams. As long as you have the half dozen elite difference makers you can develop the others to the point of being on a level playing field with the top schools that have higher ranked talent coming out of high school. Then it becomes all about scheme and execution.

CJP knows all this. He's a really good football coach as are the members of his coaching staff. Not time to be worrying about recruiting rankings. This 4-8 program has to learn how to win again first. Then the elite recruits will be calling CJP/staff.

we won 9 games each of the two years before. these players know how to win. we had a 4-8 season for the first time in our history and were one of the last two programs to hit the 8 loss mark. we aren't a 4-8 program. chill.

 

[JCLawyerVol]

Y'all think Butch Jones watches Last Chance U and thinks, "now THAT is a football coach!"?

 

[JCLawyerVol]

I've had a feeling since Pruitt's name was first mentioned for this job. I initially wanted Brohm from the start, but when I learned Pruitt was a possibility, that changed. At the risk of sounding like a middle school girl, there's just something about him. Call it the "it" factor or whatever, I've got that feeling in my gut that he CAN do great things. Let's see, like his team, if he can execute.

I think he can.

 

[Vols4us]

we won 9 games each of the two years before. these players know how to win. we had a 4-8 season for the first time in our history and were one of the last two programs to hit the 8 loss mark. we aren't a 4-8 program. chill.

That wasn't the main point, bud, but it's on me for not being clearer. Nine win seasons when Dabo produced a NC and NC contenders with similar roster talent rankings by the recruiting services. Butch started 5-7 and achieved zilch, was tied for the worst record in our history and then achieved the worst record as he headed out the door. The record improved because the talent improved and not because the coaching was good. That means there has to be existing roster attitude and development adjustments for the better and that takes time. I'm confident they will succeed even with a roster full of talent that the recruiting services call high 3* and low 4* because I see this staff as being at least as good as Dabo and his bunch. Then more elites will arrive on campus than now.

FTR I've said 7-8 wins consistently for this season. That nobody wants to leave tells me the staff is getting it done inside their heads and hearts in addition to physically. Which is another reason why I say trust the coaches' evals on existing players and recruits.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Is this a blue font post? It's July, Pruitt is 7 months into the gig, the Vols went 4-8 last fall, 4th new head coach in a decade and we're sitting 2nd in the east in star rating on Rivals behind UGA with a ton of momentum with multiple 5 stars and a bunch of 4's. And we're disappointed? Give me a break.

Ron, buddy, I get it. You’re inclined to defend anything/anyone wearing that power T. We’ve done this for three football staffs at this point. You defended Dooley and Butch until you couldn’t anymore. That’s your schtick. And it’s great! It gets you a ton of likes on this here message board. I really do commend you for it.

However, it does not change the fact that I believe Pruitt’s recruiting hasn’t been good enough - TO THIS POINT - to bridge the gap between Tennessee and the top competitors in the conference. It doesn’t mean it won’t get better - and I’d actually bet that it will - but up until that point I’m not going to be happy taking these 3 star “diamond in the rough” prospects because “this staff can develop them and identify talent better” that x, y, or z. I’d rather take the 5 star guys everyone else wants. And I want more of them than anyone else gets.

We all have our roles to play, I suppose.

 

[Vols4us]

I've had a feeling since Pruitt's name was first mentioned for this job. I initially wanted Brohm from the start, but when I learned Pruitt was a possibility, that changed. At the risk of sounding like a middle school girl, there's just something about him. Call it the "it" factor or whatever, I've got that feeling in my gut that he CAN do great things. Let's see, like his team, if he can execute.

I think he can.

Same here. I had Brohm at or near the top of my realistic list. But then Pruitt became a real possibility and I jumped on the bandwagon. He can really coach - players love him.

 

[Sleegro]

I've had a feeling since Pruitt's name was first mentioned for this job. I initially wanted Brohm from the start, but when I learned Pruitt was a possibility, that changed. At the risk of sounding like a middle school girl, there's just something about him. Call it the "it" factor or whatever, I've got that feeling in my gut that he CAN do great things. Let's see, like his team, if he can execute.

I think he can.

There has been zero indication that he can't handle it. Even things people questioned about him like handling media and what not. He went to SEC media days and had a bunch a dogs barkin about him to everybody they could find. And he calmly and assertively put them in their place like Caesar Milan would do. Came out lookin like the boss while they got chewed up by their colleagues. His recruiting has been just fine considering where we came from. Even the so called 3 star reaches seem to all have SEC level size and athleticism but are raw in terms of football development. Which he has a staff full of coaches with HS backgrounds who are known for teaching and developing. We haven't seen him coach a game yet and he may make some rookie mistakes but I'm pretty sure we will all be happy with him after the season.

 

[scvolfan7]

Ron, buddy, I get it. You’re inclined to defend anything/anyone wearing that power T. We’ve done this for three football staffs at this point. You defended Dooley and Butch until you couldn’t anymore. That’s your schtick. And it’s great! It gets you a ton of likes on this here message board. I really do commend you for it.

However, it does not change the fact that I believe Pruitt’s recruiting hasn’t been good enough - TO THIS POINT - to bridge the gap between Tennessee and the top competitors in the conference. It doesn’t mean it won’t get better - and I’d actually bet that it will - but up until that point I’m not going to be happy taking these 3 star “diamond in the rough” prospects because “this staff can develop them and identify talent better” that x, y, or z. I’d rather take the 5 star guys everyone else wants. And I want more of them than anyone else gets.

We all have our roles to play, I suppose.

You have to start somewhere though. The most devastating legacy of Butch is that he failed to deliver on the hype he used in recruiting to get the 2014 and 2015 classes. There’s now a bit of a stigma to UT that if you come here you won’t get developed. Pruitt and co are going to have to change that narrative, and I’m confident that they will.

Stars are overrated for the rebuild part. Pruitt is going to get highly rated players (already has) but he’s also gotta get guys he can build a foundation with. He’s bringing these players to camp which is something we have desperately been missing here. Camps give the coaches critical insight into what kind of player a guy is because they get to coach them. The 3 stars we’re getting now aren’t like the butch 3 stars.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Stars are overrated for the rebuild part. Pruitt is going to get highly rated players (already has) but he’s also gotta get guys he can build a foundation with. He’s bringing these players to camp which is something we have desperately been missing here. Camps give the coaches critical insight into what kind of player a guy is because they get to coach them. The 3 stars we’re getting now aren’t like the butch 3 stars.

This has been thrown out ad nauseum for 10 years and has proven to be false. The best way to win is to get the best players. Period.

 

[Nashvegas31]

Does any backup QB pick better spots than Ryan Fitzpatrick? Lol if I was a starter and he signed with my team id be worried about what would happen to me. Guy always finds a way to start

 

[Nashvegas31]

This has been thrown out ad nauseum for 10 years and has proven to be false. The best way to win is to get the best players. Period.

Let's see where class and players are ranked in feb not July. Until then I'm not gonna my to complain about taking a kid that plays out if position atDT yet still put up numbers. Camps with paul Johnson, Mark dantonio and jeremy Pruitt and gets offered. Safe to say that's a good player

 

[Ron Swanson]

Ron, buddy, I get it. You’re inclined to defend anything/anyone wearing that power T. We’ve done this for three football staffs at this point. You defended Dooley and Butch until you couldn’t anymore. That’s your schtick. And it’s great! It gets you a ton of likes on this here message board. I really do commend you for it.

However, it does not change the fact that I believe Pruitt’s recruiting hasn’t been good enough - TO THIS POINT - to bridge the gap between Tennessee and the top competitors in the conference. It doesn’t mean it won’t get better - and I’d actually bet that it will - but up until that point I’m not going to be happy taking these 3 star “diamond in the rough” prospects because “this staff can develop them and identify talent better” that x, y, or z. I’d rather take the 5 star guys everyone else wants. And I want more of them than anyone else gets.

We all have our roles to play, I suppose.

This isn't really about my "schtick" or yours. It's about you being factually wrong and throwing shade on Pruitt's recruiting. Your comments make it sound like we're sitting 48th in the nation with a 2.8 star rating. That isn't the case, at all. The FACT is we're sitting right behind UGA in star rating in our division (which is 10th in the nation) and about to add a couple 4 star CB's this weekend. And we're currently 19th overall with only 15 commits (most of the teams ahead of us have more commitments at this point). The math on those additions will bump UT into the top 10 nationally overall and even higher in star rating (adding Burrell and Fields today would put us 9th in the nation).

PLUS we're sitting at the top for a few 5 stars right now...Wright, Crouch and Bogle. And MANY other 4 stars.

So I'm just stating facts. You're not. I mean, not sure how any rational Tennessee fan can look at those facts and think it's not good enough so far from Pruitt.

I've known you as a poster on here for many years and It's pretty clear that ever since the latest coaching search you've gotten a little jaded, like many around here, and adopted this "nothing is good enough" schtick. Or at least that's the perception.

Recruiting is going very well right now. I'm sorry that you can't see that. And that's not an opinion. It's a fact.

 

[scvolfan7]

This has been thrown out ad nauseum for 10 years and has proven to be false. The best way to win is to get the best players. Period.

Right but the expectation that Pruitt was just going to show up and sign top 10 classes is unfair to him. We’re coming off our worst season in school history and a crazy/controversial coaching search were the tennessee brand was dragged through the mud.

This staff got where they are based on their ability to identity and develop talent. I can’t stress enough how important camps are for coaches. Swain put it really well: Twitter

 

[WinginFlorida]

This has been thrown out ad nauseum for 10 years and has proven to be false. The best way to win is to get the best players. Period.

KV, your first point about the star system and some people's claims it is overrated is hard to argue with. But if you think the rating system is superior to the analysis and evaluation of excellent coaches, I gotta disagree.

Argue all day long if you question whether Pruitt is that kind of coach, but it's silly to claim the star system is more reliable than the evaluation provided by great coaches. I'll take the opinion of excellent coaches all day long over the reviews and ratings of a bunch of sports writers.

 

[LightningVol]

The longer we have sucked, the harder the rebuild.

 

[Kingston Vol]

This isn't really about my "schtick" or yours. It's about you being factually wrong and throwing shade on Pruitt's recruiting. Your comments make it sound like we're sitting 48th in the nation with a 2.8 star rating. That isn't the case, at all. The FACT is we're sitting right behind UGA in star rating in our division (which is 10th in the nation) and about to add a couple 4 star CB's this weekend. And we're currently 19th overall with only 15 commits (most of the teams ahead of us have more commitments at this point). The math on those additions will bump UT into the top 10 nationally overall and even higher in star rating (adding Burrell and Fields today would put us 9th in the nation).

PLUS we're sitting at the top for a few 5 stars right now...Wright, Crouch and Bogle. And MANY other 4 stars.

So I'm just stating facts. You're not. I mean, not sure how any rational Tennessee fan can look at those facts and think it's not good enough so far from Pruitt.

I've known you as a poster on here for many years and It's pretty clear that ever since the latest coaching search you've gotten a little jaded, like many around here, and adopted this "nothing is good enough" schtick. Or at least that's the perception.

Recruiting is going very well right now. I'm sorry that you can't see that. And that's not an opinion. It's a fact.

Again, I’ll point to the fact that I absolutely believe recruiting will get better as the season progresses and the product on the field is presented. But it is not a given that any of it happens as you seem to suggest it is.

Also, you’ve presented what I assume is the best case scenario - we get all of our top targets on the board - and we’re still only 9th nationally? It isn’t good enough. And not because I’m some jaded Eeyore that can’t see the bright side on anything. It’s because it’s simply not good enough compared to turnarounds at Alabama and Georgia.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

You could put someone's eye out.

Just like this Lil fella.....

 

[VEKZY]

This has been thrown out ad nauseum for 10 years and has proven to be false. The best way to win is to get the best players. Period.

The basketball rebuild disagrees. There are multiple ways to win.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Again, I’ll point to the fact that I absolutely believe recruiting will get better as the season progresses and the product on the field is presented. But it is not a given that any of it happens as you seem to suggest it is.

Also, you’ve presented what I assume is the best case scenario - we get all of our top targets on the board - and we’re still only 9th nationally? It isn’t good enough. And not because I’m some jaded Eeyore that can’t see the bright side on anything. It’s because it’s simply not good enough compared to turnarounds at Alabama and Georgia.

No, we get Burrell and Fields and we're 9th this weekend. Not on NSD. We get those 3 top targets and we're top 5 on NSD.

 

[volfanCLT]

Sitting at 9th in the SEC according to 247

89 average, same as SCjr and Miss State

 

[millst987]

Again, I’ll point to the fact that I absolutely believe recruiting will get better as the season progresses and the product on the field is presented. But it is not a given that any of it happens as you seem to suggest it is.

Also, you’ve presented what I assume is the best case scenario - we get all of our top targets on the board - and we’re still only 9th nationally? It isn’t good enough. And not because I’m some jaded Eeyore that can’t see the bright side on anything. It’s because it’s simply not good enough compared to turnarounds at Alabama and Georgia.

I think you can compete for ships if you land top 10 classes annually.

 

[Kingston Vol]

KV, your first point about the star system and some people's claims it is overrated is hard to argue with. But if you think the rating system is superior to the analysis and evaluation of excellent coaches, I gotta disagree.

Argue all day long if you question whether Pruitt is that kind of coach, but it's silly to claim the star system is more reliable than the evaluation provided by great coaches. I'll take the opinion of excellent coaches all day long over the reviews and ratings of a bunch of sports writers.

I’m not saying that the star system is perfect. But it has proven to be a solid metric of talent. The teams that get the most highly ranked recruits usually perform the best. Especially teams that stay in the top 5. Being ranked 6-15 seems to have a higher degree of fluctuation.

I absolutely believe Pruitt and co. can judge and evaluate talent. But I also believe a group of 5 stars is going to beat a group of 3 stars 99% of the time. And while we’re not sure Pruitt is going to be an effective gameday head coach, nor are we sure Helton and Sherrer are going to be effective gameday coordinators, we just might need to out talent the other team. Again, it’s all up in the air at this point.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Again, I’ll point to the fact that I absolutely believe recruiting will get better as the season progresses and the product on the field is presented. But it is not a given that any of it happens as you seem to suggest it is.

Also, you’ve presented what I assume is the best case scenario - we get all of our top targets on the board - and we’re still only 9th nationally? It isn’t good enough. And not because I’m some jaded Eeyore that can’t see the bright side on anything. It’s because it’s simply not good enough compared to turnarounds at Alabama and Georgia.

None of those teams won zero SEC games before their turnaround..... Or had to deal with all the new counter rules in the same year, or had a record of 4 - 8.....

So yeah.... What Pruitt and Staff are doing is absolutely impressive.