Recruiting Forum Off Topic Thread III

Status
Not open for further replies.
#3,401
#3,401
WinginFlorida said:
While on the subject, something should also be done about the adoption process in the US. I have a couple of friends and acquaintances who have adopted in the past few years and it was absurdly expensive. Much of the money went to "attorneys" who helped navigate the process.

In one case, the parents-to-be were wealthy so it wasn't a big issue. But in the other case, the folks spent most of their savings, this after they had spend a few years and quite a few $ in their attempt to get pregnant.

I can see the adoption process being expensive to assure the children are being placed in good homes, but in both of these cases, it truly smacked of a money grab or racket more than anything else.
Click to expand...

Adoption should not be easy but it should also not cost your life savings. Intense background checks and psychological evaluations should be conducted over a prolonged period of time to ensure that the prospective parents are up to the task.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#3,402
#3,402
Glitch said:
I will respond to the two separate issues here:

1. What is the criteria for "personhood" and who gets to make that determination?

2. I can agree that a parent should have the right to allow their child to receive a spanking from the public school. However, the public school should have the right to restrict a child from attending if they are disruptive and will not follow the basic behavioral rules.
Click to expand...
I'll start with 2 since that's a little simpler.
2. I agree. The child should be removed from regular school and sent to "alternative school". They get to be in an environment that is more rigid and structured that can be helpful and stop taking away from the education of regular students.

1. I think that conception does not equal life/"personhood". at some point it does, and 20 weeks seems to me like the most likely point it does. The 2 major development points before that, heart beat and brain waves, do not constitute being a person on their own because the rest of the body is not formed enough to survive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#3,404
#3,404
BJHSVol said:
I'll start with 2 since that's a little simpler.
2. I agree. The child should be removed from regular school and sent to "alternative school". They get to be in an environment that is more rigid and structured that can be helpful and stop taking away from the education of regular students.

1. I think that conception does not equal life/"personhood". at some point it does, and 20 weeks seems to me like the most likely point it does. The 2 major development points before that, heart beat and brain waves, do not constitute being a person on their own because the rest of the body is not formed enough to survive.
Click to expand...

My problem with your "personhood" argument is that it is an arbitrary point in time. A baby born at 20 weeks will likely still require significant medical intervention to sustain its life. ie incubators and such. So why even bring that arbitrary point in time into the discussion? Is the child living or not living? Is a person in a coma on a feeding tube living or not living. I am a life begins at conception kind of guy, but if a child has a heart beat and brain function, how can you consider them less alive than they will be 15 weeks later?
 
#3,405
#3,405
chavisut said:
What were they forcing?

Were they attempting to accept or tolerance?
Click to expand...

InVol's experience is why you should not stop raising your kids just because they leave for college. They will be exposed to ideas that may or not be how you raised them and that is probably confusing. Continue to engage them in conversation and help them see both sides of the coin so they can form their own opinion.


Of course if they pick wrong, you can always cutoff their college funding and force them to get a job!!! :aggressive:

(Blue font, sorta)
 
#3,406
#3,406
Lol, was just told students in dorms may qualify to have an "Emotional Support Animal". That means you can bring your pet.
 
#3,418
#3,418
There's a macroscopic issue people are missing here...

Freedom is important...

This is America... where you're allowed to have any and all the beliefs you want. You are also allowed to have ethical arguments, bible verses, logic, and any number of other things to back up your beliefs...

BUT...

... there's a point at which your abortion argument (that's generally split 50/50 nationwide) has to invariably supersede the other side before we're at a place this issue needs to be restrictively legislated into a law that takes an option away from any and all of the people.

Having the option, no matter how you skew the reasons for use (selfishness, punishment, financial hardships, irresponsibility, unpreparedness... whatever storyline you're painting)... is a double-edged sword. The same people arguing for anti-abortion are the same people arguing about the government's welfare system. Kids raised by impoverished irresponsible parents have a significantly steeper slope to climb to grow into productive members of society. All that set aside... once there is a law against it, it takes away the option.

Nobody is forcing women against their will to "murder" their babies. That is a choice a mother makes for whatever reasons she makes it. If you don't believe it to be an option, then nobody is forcing you to view it as one.

It's also a catalyst for stem cell research, which anti-abortionists like to paint as evil mad scientists playing God in a laboratory. It's not. My uncle had a rare form of cancer that was treated with stem cells and he's been in remission for 5 years now specifically due to that treatment. That "evil" research has helped a LOT of people, and there are a plethora of other applications they can be applied to that haven't been realized yet.

...Then there's the cutoff date/birth control thing... If you go far enough down that train of thought, condoms become murder... so yes, there is a point at which fertilization of an egg becomes a person, and "we", as a people, will never agree on precisely when that point is... so it's best to agree to disagree and let science determine a feasible point as a cutoff date.

It would do people well to mind their own damned business. I fully realize my opinion on this subject isn't the high road opinion and isn't going to be popular around here, but here's the typical "selfish" case... Some sixteen-year-old girl doesn't want to ruin her life and body because a condom broke on prom night. What gave you the right to force her to?

I've never aborted a child and I doubt I ever would, but having the freedom to make a choice is important to society. Yes, there is another option, adoption, that is held in much higher esteem... and that's just that... another option... that a mother can decide to go with.

As an American, I'll never in my lifetime vote to take away anybody else's freedom... whether I agree with the basis of it or not...

Anyways, there's the Devil's advocate take on it... I don't expect any likes on this one haha
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
#3,419
#3,419
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Raising a generation of sissies
Click to expand...

Not arguing but look at it another way.

I was sitting in the mall about 10 years ago with my stepdaughters talking about life's challenges and what worried them about life. As we talked, dozens of their fellow youth were walking by. Of course, some had their pants hanging down to their knees, others were dressed like they were heading to a Gothic convention, and others had tattoos on nearly every inch of their bodies.

As we talked about what concerned them about their future and their careers, I pointed out that one big advantage they had was less competition in the marketplace. "Since we began talking, the only 2 people I've seen that I would even invite for a job interview are the two of you. You might think I'm saying this to be funny, but keep this little joke in mind."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#3,420
#3,420
WinginFlorida said:
Not arguing but look at it another way.

I was sitting in the mall about 10 years ago with my stepdaughters talking about life's challenges and what worried them about life. As we talked, dozens of their fellow youth were walking by. Of course, some had their pants hanging down to their knees, others were dressed like they were heading to a Gothic convention, and others had tattoos on nearly every inch of their bodies.

As we talked about what concerned them about their future and their careers, I pointed out that one big advantage they had was less competition in the marketplace. "Since we began talking, the only 2 people I've seen that I would even invite for a job interview are the two of you. You might think I'm saying this to be funny, but keep this little joke in mind."
Click to expand...

Good life lesson
 
#3,421
#3,421
PoweredByTheT said:
There's a macroscopic issue people are missing here...

Freedom is important...

This is America... where you're allowed to have any and all the beliefs you want. You are also allowed to have ethical arguments, bible verses, logic, and any number of other things to back up your beliefs...

BUT...

... there's a point at which your abortion argument (that's generally split 50/50 nationwide) has to invariably supersede the other side before we're at a place this issue needs to be restrictively legislated into a law that takes an option away from any and all of the people.

Having the option, no matter how you skew the reasons for use (selfishness, punishment, financial hardships, irresponsibility, unpreparedness... whatever storyline you're painting)... is a double-edged sword. The same people arguing for anti-abortion are the same people arguing about the government's welfare system. Kids raised by impoverished irresponsible parents have a significantly steeper slope to climb to grow into productive members of society. All that set aside... once there is a law against it, it takes away the option.

Nobody is forcing women against their will to "murder" their babies. That is a choice a mother makes for whatever reasons she makes it. If you don't believe it to be an option, then nobody is forcing you to view it as one.

It's also a catalyst for stem cell research, which anti-abortionists like to paint as evil mad scientists playing God in a laboratory. It's not. My uncle had a rare form of cancer that was treated with stem cells and he's been in remission for 5 years now specifically due to that treatment. That "evil" research has helped a LOT of people, and there are a plethora of other applications they can be applied to that haven't been realized yet.

...Then there's the cutoff date/birth control thing... If you go far enough down that train of thought, condoms become murder... so yes, there is a point at which fertilization of an egg becomes a person, and "we", as a people, will never agree on precisely when that point is... so it's best to agree to disagree and let science determine a feasible point as a cutoff date.

It would do people well to mind their own damned business. I fully realize my opinion on this subject isn't the high road opinion and isn't going to be popular around here, but here's the typical "selfish" case... Some sixteen-year-old girl doesn't want to ruin her life and body because a condom broke on prom night. What gave you the right to force her to?

I've never aborted a child and I doubt I ever would, but having the freedom to make a choice is important to society. Yes, there is another option, adoption, that is held in much higher esteem... and that's just that... another option... that a mother can decide to go with.

As an American, I'll never in my lifetime vote to take away anybody else's freedom... whether I agree with the basis of it or not...

Anyways, there's the Devil's advocate take on it... I don't expect any likes on this one haha
Click to expand...

It is definitely not a cut and dry issue and there are larger societal implications. I still cringe a little when we talk about it's the mother, or parents right to choose, but we neglect to offer the child the right to choose if it wants to live or die.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#3,422
#3,422
WinginFlorida said:
Not arguing but look at it another way.

I was sitting in the mall about 10 years ago with my stepdaughters talking about life's challenges and what worried them about life. As we talked, dozens of their fellow youth were walking by. Of course, some had their pants hanging down to their knees, others were dressed like they were heading to a Gothic convention, and others had tattoos on nearly every inch of their bodies.

As we talked about what concerned them about their future and their careers, I pointed out that one big advantage they had was less competition in the marketplace. "Since we began talking, the only 2 people I've seen that I would even invite for a job interview are the two of you. You might think I'm saying this to be funny, but keep this little joke in mind."
Click to expand...

Yes. I've never been hired because my clothes here hip or because the boss could tell that I was really a non-conformist. LOL. Dress to impress the president of the company, not the local cool kids at the food court.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#3,425
#3,425
PoweredByTheT said:
It's also a catalyst for stem cell research, which anti-abortionists like to paint as evil mad scientists playing God in a laboratory. It's not. My uncle had a rare form of cancer that was treated with stem cells and he's been in remission for 5 years now specifically due to that treatment. That "evil" research has helped a LOT of people, and there are a plethora of other applications they can be applied to that haven't been realized yet.

...Then there's the cutoff date/birth control thing... If you go far enough down that train of thought, condoms become murder... so yes, there is a point at which fertilization of an egg becomes a person, and "we", as a people, will never agree on precisely when that point is... so it's best to agree to disagree and let science determine a feasible point as a cutoff date.

It would do people well to mind their own damned business. I fully realize my opinion on this subject isn't the high road opinion and isn't going to be popular around here, but here's the typical "selfish" case... Some sixteen-year-old girl doesn't want to ruin her life and body because a condom broke on prom night. What gave you the right to force her to?

I've never aborted a child and I doubt I ever would, but having the freedom to make a choice is important to society. Yes, there is another option, adoption, that is held in much higher esteem... and that's just that... another option... that a mother can decide to go with.

As an American, I'll never in my lifetime vote to take away anybody else's freedom... whether I agree with the basis of it or not...

Anyways, there's the Devil's advocate take on it... I don't expect any likes on this one haha
Click to expand...

Stem cells are gathered from the placenta after the birth nowadays, so no need to gather them from aborted children.

Please explain how using a condom equates to murder. Impeding sperm from fertilizing an egg isn’t murder. To murder someone there has to be a someone present.

Welcome to the USA where people DON’T mind their own business. Free speech, voting rights, the justice system, etc. As a person living in this country (assumption) you must be held accountable for your actions. You can drink and drive if you want to, but you are running the risk of getting arrested or getting someone killed. You can sleep with that girl at the bar if you want to, but you can’t choose the consequences that come with it - sexually transmitted disease, pregnancy.

Edit: Who’s fault is it that the 16 year old girl got pregnant? It’s the girl and her boo. Why are you assuming that her life is ruined? I have a 4 month old and up to this point he has cost us less than $1,000. Yes this is on the low side because we have good health insurance, but still, not near as expensive as what some people want to make it seem.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Advertisement





Back
Top