Iran nuclear program. It is a lie

[Persian Vol]

nice try. they committed an act of war. we took their money as a result. should have never given it back. and yes I am red white and blue and I don't gaf about their crappy little world at all. their **** hole government is their problem to fix.

The U.S. essentially sabotaged Iran’s democracy in the 50s in order to maintain the Shah as a puppet ruler.

Yet their “crappy little world” needs to fix their government?

Here is an analogy.

You carry a baby. You drop that baby. That baby grows up and is all kinds of messed up. That person tries to attack you. You slap that person and tell him to settle down. 30 Years later that person is still all kinds of messed up in the head and you are telling people that he’s bat**** crazy and it’s his problem to fix.

 

[hog88]

The U.S. essentially sabotaged Iran’s democracy in the 50s in order to maintain the Shah as a puppet ruler.

Yet their “crappy little world” needs to fix their government?

Here is an analogy.

You carry a baby. You drop that baby. That baby grows up and is all kinds of messed up. That person tries to attack you. You slap that person and tell him to settle down. 30 Years later that person is still all kinds of messed up in the head and you are telling people that he’s bat**** crazy and it’s his problem to fix.

To be fair Mossadeq was going to **** over several western oil companies that invested millions developing their oil reserves. If he didn't try that he wouldn't have been removed.

 

[Weezer]

Wonder how many Trump rubes you'll hook in your trolling for likes attempt that has little to nothing to do with the thread title?

Considering the make up of the board, more than the likes you're trolling for from your lib friends.

 

[Weezer]

I wish Obammer well, but he’s consistently shown himself to be a liberal elitist who looks down on "ordinary" Americans. Personally, for the sake of the country, I’m glad his arse is gone.

I often disagreed with Obama, but overall, found him far, far more tolerable than Hillary. Apparently so did the Dems, otherwise 2008 would have turned out differently.

 

[Weezer]

The U.S. essentially sabotaged Iran’s democracy in the 50s in order to maintain the Shah as a puppet ruler.

Yet their “crappy little world” needs to fix their government?

Here is an analogy.

You carry a baby. You drop that baby. That baby grows up and is all kinds of messed up. That person tries to attack you. You slap that person and tell him to settle down. 30 Years later that person is still all kinds of messed up in the head and you are telling people that he’s bat**** crazy and it’s his problem to fix.

Speaking on your analogy, you can try to help a person, but until they start to help themselves you're not going to get anywhere. And allowing them to hold you hostage benefits no one. (Not a reference to them actually holding hostages.)

There's always at least two sides to a story. Blame is something best shared with each party admitting their own, but most people never like to admit they screwed up, too.

 

[Pacer92]

The U.S. essentially sabotaged Iran’s democracy in the 50s in order to maintain the Shah as a puppet ruler.

Yet their “crappy little world” needs to fix their government?

Here is an analogy.

You carry a baby. You drop that baby. That baby grows up and is all kinds of messed up. That person tries to attack you. You slap that person and tell him to settle down. 30 Years later that person is still all kinds of messed up in the head and you are telling people that he’s bat**** crazy and it’s his problem to fix.

Actually it was the British that first stepped in to "help" Iran with their "resource problems"...

It was never about "government"...ever!

Ask KSA...

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Ras isn't always wrong by any means. If you look at it from the Japanese perspective, they were watching Europe rape Asia for any resource they wanted. Japan was modernizing - something we kinda started ourselves, and modernization requires the same resources the Europeans were plundering from "their" colonies which you remember they took by force.

I think if you add that into the perspective first, then the Japanese attitude toward more European force and a US embargo makes more sense. It seems to be a less aggressive posture than Germany took with lebensraum.

So therefore they ran thru the Philippine Islands in a day and a half, killing and pillaging as they went. Kind of a 1940s version of Ferguson.

 

[Grand Vol]

Ras isn't always wrong by any means. If you look at it from the Japanese perspective, they were watching Europe rape Asia for any resource they wanted. Japan was modernizing - something we kinda started ourselves, and modernization requires the same resources the Europeans were plundering from "their" colonies which you remember they took by force.

I think if you add that into the perspective first, then the Japanese attitude toward more European force and a US embargo makes more sense. It seems to be a less aggressive posture than Germany took with lebensraum.

However, what caused that initial "push" for the embargo? Look at the Japanese actions that led to that.

War in the Pacific was inevitable. The embargo didn't help matters, but to say the US "provoked" Japan into acting isn't correct. They could have gone after the Dutch East Indies (and the resources therein) without declaring war on the US.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The U.S. essentially sabotaged Iran’s democracy in the 50s in order to maintain the Shah as a puppet ruler.

Yet their “crappy little world” needs to fix their government?

Here is an analogy.

You carry a baby. You drop that baby. That baby grows up and is all kinds of messed up. That person tries to attack you. You slap that person and tell him to settle down. 30 Years later that person is still all kinds of messed up in the head and you are telling people that he’s bat**** crazy and it’s his problem to fix.

weak analogy. Under your analogy I am guessing reparations to people of African descent is not only warranted but justified.

 

[n_huffhines]

weak analogy. Under your analogy I am guessing reparations to people of African descent is not only warranted but justified.

Your best critique of his analogy is not even a critique of his analogy. You're inventing a hypothetical solution to a different problem and just guessing that he supports it?...

 

[Persian Vol]

To be fair Mossadeq was going to **** over several western oil companies that invested millions developing their oil reserves. If he didn't try that he wouldn't have been removed.

God forbid a leader of a country to care about their own country’s interest over that of foreign countries.

 

[Persian Vol]

Speaking on your analogy, you can try to help a person, but until they start to help themselves you're not going to get anywhere. And allowing them to hold you hostage benefits no one. (Not a reference to them actually holding hostages.)

There's always at least two sides to a story. Blame is something best shared with each party admitting their own, but most people never like to admit they screwed up, too.

Even Iranians admit that their government is an abomination. But I feel like too many Americans are oblivious that American actions from the past have heavily influenced the chain of events that lead up to this conflict. Of course we cannot change the past, but we can look at this conflict from an objective perspective.

 

[Persian Vol]

weak analogy. Under your analogy I am guessing reparations to people of African descent is not only warranted but justified.

I’m not saying anyone must apologize for anything, just to acknowledge history when making judgements.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

To be fair Mossadeq was going to **** over several western oil companies that invested millions developing their oil reserves. If he didn't try that he wouldn't have been removed.

Those western oil companies were pulling resources out of the country and paying them crumbs in return.

 

[AM64]

So therefore they ran thru the Philippine Islands in a day and a half, killing and pillaging as they went. Kind of a 1940s version of Ferguson.

There was never an excuse for Japanese brutality, but if we agree that it was wrong rather than something from their code of ethics (Bushido) then we also have to take a long hard look at among others the Muslim world and quit excusing their treatment of everyone else and the women in their society. There is a long list of African cultures that richly deserve some attention, too - downright elimination wouldn't even be good enough for some.

 

[AM64]

However, what caused that initial "push" for the embargo? Look at the Japanese actions that led to that.

War in the Pacific was inevitable. The embargo didn't help matters, but to say the US "provoked" Japan into acting isn't correct. They could have gone after the Dutch East Indies (and the resources therein) without declaring war on the US.

I agree that provoked is not the right word, but when we cut off their access to oil and other raw materials it certainly set the stage, and the diplomats on both sides were failures when it came down to mitigating anything. If you back someone with a gun into a corner, it is certainly his decision whether he pulls the trigger or not, but you did corner him and limit his options - the degree of desperation and personal makeup determine how that goes.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

However, what caused that initial "push" for the embargo? Look at the Japanese actions that led to that.

War in the Pacific was inevitable. The embargo didn't help matters, but to say the US "provoked" Japan into acting isn't correct. They could have gone after the Dutch East Indies (and the resources therein) without declaring war on the US.

That was a regional conflict between Japan and China. It had nothing to do with us, so how was it inevitable?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Even Iranians admit that their government is an abomination. But I feel like too many Americans are oblivious that American actions from the past have heavily influenced the chain of events that lead up to this conflict. Of course we cannot change the past, but we can look at this conflict from an objective perspective.

They are not oblivious to these facts. They just don't want to admit that the USA screwed up by getting involved in regime change that didn't serve America's best interests.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I agree that provoked is not the right word, but when we cut off their access to oil and other raw materials it certainly set the stage, and the diplomats on both sides were failures when it came down to mitigating anything. If you back someone with a gun into a corner, it is certainly his decision whether he pulls the trigger or not, but you did corner him and limit his options - the degree of desperation and personal makeup determine how that goes.

Provoked is the word used by some to describe the actions of Egypt to attempt a blockade of the Straits of Tiran leading up to the 6 Day War.

 

[Grand Vol]

That was a regional conflict between Japan and China. It had nothing to do with us, so how was it inevitable?

Because of the simple fact Japan was an expansionist empire at the time of WWII and would have eventually attacked US interests anyway. The Philippines especially. They knew the only nation that could challenge them in the Pacific was the United States and they would have eventually bumped into us.

I'm not even sure why I'm explaining this to you. You'll just find another reason the US was wrong and continue blaming America for all the woes of the past hundred years every chance you get.

 

[Vol_Doc]

There was never an excuse for Japanese brutality, but if we agree that it was wrong rather than something from their code of ethics (Bushido) then we also have to take a long hard look at among others the Muslim world and quit excusing their treatment of everyone else and the women in their society. There is a long list of African cultures that richly deserve some attention, too - downright elimination wouldn't even be good enough for some.

There are plenty of atrocities in our history. I don't think we have the moral high ground to be preaching to anyone, let alone trying to shape them in our image.

 

[hog88]

God forbid a leader of a country to care about their own country’s interest over that of foreign countries.

Don’t screw people over when you can’t defend yourself.

 

[hog88]

Those western oil companies were pulling resources out of the country and paying them crumbs in return.

They invested the money and expertise.

 

[Persian Vol]

Don’t screw people over when you can’t defend yourself.

They were the ones getting screwed over from the beginning, but because they weren’t as strong or influential as Britain or America they deserve to be punished because they’re weaker?

 

[OuterBanksVol]

So I gather Plan A is Iran comes crawling back to the US, begging for a new deal. But, Europe, China and Russia may simply keep the deal and simply press on... which leaves us where? The waters are muddied here.

And, oh, what's Plan B again?