Pope: There Is No Hell

#226
#226
Well, holy ****in ****.

I feel like trUT just validated $30,000 worth of parking tickets i owe
 
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#227
#227
DinkinFlicka said:
I feel so much closer to GOD because of BigO95's super approachable testimonies.
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Mark 8:36-37 (KJV)
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Is there anything that would be worth dying and spending eternity in the lake of fire?

Dinka, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Christ was willing to buy your redemption by the price of his own blood! Please don't reject Gods great love gift to you and spend eternity in hell. You are precious to God. I will be praying for you. :hi:
At least I love you enough to tell you the truth!
 
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#229
#229
therealUT said:
First, you implied that the Catholics who drink see their drinking and their drunkenness as a sin, thus your statement that they have enough booze to kill a mule and then they go ask for forgiveness. Most Catholics I know don't view it this way.

You then said that they are polluting their body and their temple. I responded by saying that it's idiotic to think that's the case.

You then edited your post to reference a letter from Saul of Tarsus to a specific community that was dealing with specific problems in that community. The Galatians community did these things in worshiping Bacchus. That is, they were idol worshipers, according to Saul. As such, there exist exegetical questions about how to universalize Saul's epistles.

The toughest challenge comes in the form of Jesus's first miracle, that of turning water into wine. Recall, that the wine had run out. That is, the guests had drunk more wine than the hosts had planned for. That's probably quite a bit of wine. So Jesus makes quite a bit more. It seems like they are drunk and Jesus is condoning this and acting to get them more drunk.

Further, after making the wine, the waiter tells Jesus the wine is good, but it's a shame that it wasn't served first because it won't be fully appreciated for how good it is since most of the drinkers, by this time, won't be able to tell much of a difference.

Hmm... Why won't they be able to tell the difference? Oh, because fine discrepancy of taste is one of the first things to go when one is inebriated.

So, Jesus performs a miracle to get already inebriated guests more inebriated. Saul tells a certain community that they should not fall into drunkenness and debauchery. Saul's specific admonition cannot be universalized.

The Catholic Church views some drunkenness as sin, but it's not the level of drunkenness that is reached by most drinkers that get drunk. Moreover, if merely getting drunk is polluting your body, then merely eating McDonald's is also polluting your body (in fact, I think that even some getting drunk isn't polluting the body, eating McDonald's and drinking soda pop probably is). If the root of the sin is the body pollution, then it's likely that eating McDonald's and drinking soda pop are sins. And, well, that's absurd.

Maybe it's polluting the mind, then? I don't know that a reduction in inhibitions is a pollution of the mind. Further, if, according to Jesus, the sin of adultery is committed in wanting to sleep with your neighbor's wife, then the inhibition reduction simply allows that thought and desire to be made manifest. But, the sin is already there and committed.

It's either that or, even when sober the whole time, you commit adultery twice every time you actually have sex with your neighbor's wife: once when you want to; again when you actually do.

But, let's return to Saul, since you are relying so firmly on the surface level literalism of his epistles. Saul says that things that keep you away from devoting your life to God are sins. He then says that being married keeps you from devoting your life to God. He then says that you ought not get married. But, since you are weak, getting married is the lesser of two evils.

I doubt you think getting married is a sin or an evil. And, I imagine you have read this and talked about it, and have reasons ready to show why we cannot and should not take these words, about marriage, in a literal fashion such that we should view marriage as a sin. But, you like marriage, so you do the work and accept the interpretation that allows you to keep on liking marriage.

Inebriation, though? Nope, Saul is to be taken quite literally there and his word there is universalizable.
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Wrong. Why use Saul instead of the Apostle Paul? To connect his once wickedness and sinful ways to redemption?

I didn’t imply anything, other than drunkenness is a sin, as defined by the Bible? So, let’s start there. Why is drunkenness a sin? Please, use the Bible, not your philosophical ideologies.

The burden resides with you to validate; you’ve yet to do that. Charades and Biblical doctrine aren’t interchangeable.
 
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#230
#230
Squints said:
Wrong. Why use Saul instead of the Apostle Paul? To connect his once wickedness and sinful ways to redemption?

I didn’t imply anything, other than drunkenness is a sin, as defined by the Bible? So, let’s start there. Why is drunkenness a sin? Please, use the Bible, not your philosophical ideologies.

The burden resides with you to validate; you’ve yet to do that. Charades and Biblical doctrine aren’t interchangeable.
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Drunkenness isn't a sin because Jesus performed a miracle to get already drunk guests more drunk.

That was easy.
 
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#234
#234
Squints said:
Wrong. Why use Saul instead of the Apostle Paul? To connect his once wickedness and sinful ways to redemption?

I didn’t imply anything, other than drunkenness is a sin, as defined by the Bible? So, let’s start there. Why is drunkenness a sin? Please, use the Bible, not your philosophical ideologies.

The burden resides with you to validate; you’ve yet to do that. Charades and Biblical doctrine aren’t interchangeable.
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Saul's name has nothing to do with his conversion. It wasn't uncommon for people to have a Jewish name and Greek name.

Weak argument and I don't blame TRUT for demolishing it.
 
#241
#241
Back to the wedding feast.

Jesus makes 20-30 gallons of wine. That's 512 to 768 standard glasses of wine, with today's wine.

Right? 128 ounces in a gallon. 5 ounces in a standard glass of wine.

How many guests were at this bustling wedding in the major metropolis that was Cana in Galilee...

They all got ****ing smashed, thanks to Jesus.
 
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#242
#242
The stance they claim the pope took is more in line with my personal views. I believe it aligns fairly well with Jewish doctrine also. I have a hard time believing in Hell, if it wasn’t important enough for god to tell anyone in the Old Testament about.
 
#243
#243
therealUT said:
Back to the wedding feast.

Jesus makes 20-30 gallons of wine. That's 512 to 768 standard glasses of wine, with today's wine.

Right? 128 ounces in a gallon. 5 ounces in a standard glass of wine.

How many guests were at this bustling wedding in the major metropolis that was Cana in Galilee...

They all got ****ing smashed, thanks to Jesus.
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If memory serves, I believe he made Ariel Chardonnay, so.....
 
#245
#245
therealUT said:
Haha. And, there were six such jugs. So, if the original numbers weren't enough to get everyone crunk, multiply them by six.

All in moderation, right?
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Oh yes. If all of it was consumed, it was quite the party.

Now, did he relieve everyone of their ridiculous hangover he next day? That would have scored some major savior points among the followers.
 
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#246
#246
tumscalcium said:
Oh yes. If all of it was consumed, it was quite the party.

Now, did he relieve everyone of their ridiculous hangover he next day? That would have scored some major savior points among the followers.
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That was his second miracle. Raising them all from the dead.
 
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#249
#249
Ok
I just spent a good deal of time on this and I can’t find anything in Torah that actually calls drunkenness sin. It warns often of the behavior that results from drunkenness resulting in sin and says that the wise avoid it but doesn’t call drunkenness itself sinful.

If you have a problem like I do then it’s best to avoid it. As Messiah said if your eye caused you to sin pluck it out. If basketball causes you to sin (Roust gets this reference) don’t play and if Budweiser causes you to sin then don’t drink it.
*****that isn’t a direct quote of Messiah but it’s my interpretation of what he meant *********
 
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#250
#250
Vol8188 said:
The stance they claim the pope took is more in line with my personal views. I believe it aligns fairly well with Jewish doctrine also. I have a hard time believing in Hell, if it wasn’t important enough for god to tell anyone in the Old Testament about.
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I do not believe scripture teaches eternal torment for mortals. The fallen angels but not people
 
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