Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are CLEARLY the 2 best QBs in the 2018 NFL Draft

[n_huffhines]

No. He's also the second most athletic QB in this class. He tested better than Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in all the athletic testing. The only QB more athletic than him is Lamar Jackson who didn't test at the combine but we know is a superb athlete.

It's clear you're more of a stats guy than a pure eye test guy like me. I've seen Josh Allen show better pocket presence than all the other top rated QBs outside of Lamar Jackson. I've seen him show better escapability when the pocket collapses than every other QB in this class outside of Lamar Jackson. I've seen him throw on the run with better accuracy than any other QB in this class. He's great at more than just throwing the ball hard and far.

Also you can't downplay the importance of arm strength. It's the number attribute scouts look at when assesing whether a guy can even play in the NFL. I'm not saying arm strength alone is sufficient to become a star QB in the NFL. A big arm is however necessary to become a star QB in the NFL (outside of a few outliers).

Josh Allen's elite arm strength will allow him to make throws in the NFL that 99.9% of the other NFL QBs won't be able to make. You can't downplay a skill like that.

So he's got a 1 in 1,000 arm? Have there even been 1,000 NFL QB's? Basically, best arm ever is what you're saying

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

There is no chance he actually watches entire games.

Of course not. That would be silly and counterproductive.

The proper way to evaluate is to watch cut-ups of a prospects snaps in a game back to back to back. That way you focus solely on the prospect's skill set rather than focusing on the game.

Here's an example of the type of videos I watch to evaluate players:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14hDrw0fJZY[/youtube]

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

So he's got a 1 in 1,000 arm? Have there even been 1,000 NFL QB's? Basically, best arm ever is what you're saying

I can't say "ever" because I haven't watched every QB in NFL history play. But Josh Allen does have the strongest arm "I" have ever seen.

 

[butchna]

Brad Kaaya has an exceedingly mediocre arm.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Brad Kaaya has an exceedingly mediocre arm.

Absolutely true. Which is why going to a team that plays in a dome is important for him. Its also why he won't ever be an elite QB. He'll be at best a Matt Ryan level QB.

 

[bamawriter]

Of course not. That would be silly and counterproductive.

The proper way to evaluate is to watch cut-ups of a prospects snaps in a game back to back to back. That way you focus solely on the prospect's skill set rather than focusing on the game.

This is exactly what I figured you watched. You wouldn't have such a terrible batting average if you were watching anything else.

 

[volfanCLT]

Allen has all the natural tools you want but has a long, long way to go in order to be successful in the league.

Footwork is consistently off which leads to him being innacurate.

 

[BIG BOI 23]

Absolutely true. Which is why going to a team that plays in a dome is important for him. Its also why he won't ever be an elite QB. He'll be at best a Matt Ryan level QB.

He’ll be lucky to be a Josh McCown level QB

Kaaya ain’t never gonna have a career like Ryan

 

[butchna]

Absolutely true. Which is why going to a team that plays in a dome is important for him. Its also why he won't ever be an elite QB. He'll be at best a Matt Ryan level QB.

Matt Ryan has an elite arm...and was NFL MVP. “At best” Kaaya will be a Danny Wuerffell level QB.

 

[volnbama_]

Lamar Jackson is significantly more elusive than RG3. RG3 was a straight line speed track guy who couldn't make guys miss and had horrible pocket presence. Lamar Jackson is a wizard at making guys miss and has excellent pocket presence. The two players are not remotely comprable.

Deshaun Watson is the player that is like RG3.

Deshaun Watson is also great at making guys miss. How is that comparable to RG3?

 

[butchna]

Lamar Jackson is significantly more elusive than RG3. RG3 was a straight line speed track guy who couldn't make guys miss and had horrible pocket presence. Lamar Jackson is a wizard at making guys miss and has excellent pocket presence. The two players are not remotely comprable.

Deshaun Watson is the player that is like RG3.

Jackson makes people miss IN COLLEGE. Which is what happened to Griffin. That one guy on the opposing defense that you couldn’t shake? He’s on the bottom of the depth chart in the NFL. Watson never depended on his legs...he’s a sophisticated passer. His knee injury was a freak occurrence that happens all the time and he’ll excel when he returns. Jackson will need to abandon his natural inclination to abandon the pocket or he’ll get killed...like Griffin.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

This is exactly what I figured you watched. You wouldn't have such a terrible batting average if you were watching anything else.

I also watch the games on Saturdays for fun. But you can't make a proper evaluation that way. The emotion and excitement of the game can get to you. Plus you'll be watching where the ball goes rather than just on the player you want to see.

NFL teams don't watch fun games when evaluating. They watch cut-ups like the one I posted but from the All-22 camera view.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Matt Ryan has an elite arm...and was NFL MVP. “At best” Kaaya will be a Danny Wuerffell level QB.

If anyone is the next Danny Wuerffell it's Baker Mayfield. Another college star that fails in the NFL.

And FYI Matt Ryan only won MVP cause Kyle Shannahan is an offensive mastermind. Remember he made RG3 into a Rookie of the Year as well before he turned into a bust.

Matt Ryan is a slightly above average starting who can make the pro bowl every now and then. That is what Brad Kaaya will eventually become.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Jackson makes people miss IN COLLEGE. Which is what happened to Griffin. That one guy on the opposing defense that you couldn’t shake? He’s on the bottom of the depth chart in the NFL. Watson never depended on his legs...he’s a sophisticated passer. His knee injury was a freak occurrence that happens all the time and he’ll excel when he returns. Jackson will need to abandon his natural inclination to abandon the pocket or he’ll get killed...like Griffin.

LOL. You've got to be kidding me. The Texans changed their entire offense to take advantage of Watson's running ability and to make the pass game easier on him. You're out of your mind if you think Watson is going to be simply a pocket passer.

These leg injuries are going to take away from his athleticism (ala Dante Culpepper) and he won't be the same ever again. Remember how good of a PASSER Dante Culpepper was before his knee injury. People we calling him an MVP candidate. He threw 40 TDs passes. And then just like that all the passing ability was gone because his threat as a runner disappeared.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Deshaun Watson is also great at making guys miss. How is that comparable to RG3?

Deshaun Watson is not in the same universe of elusiveness as Lamar Jackson. He's far closer to RG3. And I compared him to RG3 because both are prone to knee injuries. At the same age both had 2 serious ACL tears.

At a certain point knee injuries catch up to a player.

 

[bamawriter]

I also watch the games on Saturdays for fun. But you can't make a proper evaluation that way. The emotion and excitement of the game can get to you. Plus you'll be watching where the ball goes rather than just on the player you want to see.

NFL teams don't watch fun games when evaluating. They watch cut-ups like the one I posted but from the All-22 camera view.

They watch edited footage. It doesn't look anything like your link.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

They watch edited footage. It doesn't look anything like your link.

They watch from the All-22 camera view. And it's a cut up of snaps involving the prospect in question. Obviously it isn't like that link because that's from the TV broadcast feed but the idea is the same. Cut up of clips involving just the prospect in question.

 

[bamawriter]

They watch from the All-22 camera view. And it's a cut up of snaps involving the prospect in question. Obviously it isn't like that link because that's from the TV broadcast feed but the idea is the same. Cut up of clips involving just the prospect in question.

Anyone who relies on a snap to whistle edit is a moron.

 

[BIG BOI 23]

If anyone is the next Danny Wuerffell it's Baker Mayfield. Another college star that fails in the NFL.

And FYI Matt Ryan only won MVP cause Kyle Shannahan is an offensive mastermind. Remember he made RG3 into a Rookie of the Year as well before he turned into a bust.

Matt Ryan is a slightly above average starting who can make the pro bowl every now and then. That is what Brad Kaaya will eventually become.

Matt Ryan led his team to the playoffs as a rookie

Brad Kaaya was released by 3 different teams as a rookie

 

[volfanCLT]

Matt Ryan led his team to the playoffs as a rookie

Brad Kaaya was released by 3 different teams as a rookie

The difference between Matt Ryan and Brad Kaaya is that Kaaya sucks lol

D4H will keep kicking the can down the road, per usual, when his predictions don’t come true

 

[butchna]

LOL. You've got to be kidding me. The Texans changed their entire offense to take advantage of Watson's running ability and to make the pass game easier on him. You're out of your mind if you think Watson is going to be simply a pocket passer.

These leg injuries are going to take away from his athleticism (ala Dante Culpepper) and he won't be the same ever again. Remember how good of a PASSER Dante Culpepper was before his knee injury. People we calling him an MVP candidate. He threw 40 TDs passes. And then just like that all the passing ability was gone because his threat as a runner disappeared.

I think your vaunted “film watching” consists solely of watching highlights. You don’t get the skinny you do from watching games and the adjustments that DC’s make. Watson improves season after season and by his junior season was a sophisticated elite passer...mobility was a bonus but not the core of his game. Jackson broke out his Heisman year in the early going but the performances (and wins) receded as he was figured out and didn’t adjust to the adjustments. Last season was a clinic of a one trick pony. This was in a QB friendly Petrino system and yet he wasn’t a factor in the Heisman race...same QB as the previous season who didn’t expand. Deshaun already fits the prototype of QB greats who REALLY study film and work on their own tendencies in the eternal chess match that is NFL football. Maybe Lamar Jackson reinvents and becomes that type but so far he’s just displayed the Manziel model of downgrading performance. Culpepper was a similar victim of having Chris Carter and Randy Moss disguise his deficiencies. He’d throw at them and they’d catch it. He didn’t have the TRUE franchise QB attribute of making his receivers better...as Watson did with the lil WR that caught the winning TD against Bama. Jackson lost against KENTUCKY!

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Matt Ryan led his team to the playoffs as a rookie

Brad Kaaya was released by 3 different teams as a rookie

And? Rookie year is just one season. Kurt Warner was also cut several times, forced to play in the Arena League, and bag groceries before he got his chance to start for the St. Louis Rams in 1999.

The NFL is a marathon not a sprint. Brad Kaaya is made of the right stuff. I'm still confident he will have a successful career as a good starting QB in the NFL.

 

[bamawriter]

And? Rookie year is just one season. Kurt Warner was also cut several times, forced to play in the Arena League, and bag groceries before he got his chance to start for the St. Louis Rams in 1999.

The NFL is a marathon not a sprint. Brad Kaaya is made of the right stuff. I'm still confident he will have a successful career as a good starting QB in the NFL.

The fact that you are limited to pointing to the same 2 or 3 exceptions every time shows how intellectually vacant your position is.

The good news is, if every guy on which you've missed turns it on a few years later, your small list of exceptions will grow tenfold.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I think your vaunted “film watching” consists solely of watching highlights. You don’t get the skinny you do from watching games and the adjustments that DC’s make. Watson improves season after season and by his junior season was a sophisticated elite passer...mobility was a bonus but not the core of his game. Jackson broke out his Heisman year in the early going but the performances (and wins) receded as he was figured out and didn’t adjust to the adjustments. Last season was a clinic of a one trick pony. This was in a QB friendly Petrino system and yet he wasn’t a factor in the Heisman race...same QB as the previous season who didn’t expand. Deshaun already fits the prototype of QB greats who REALLY study film and work on their own tendencies in the eternal chess match that is NFL football. Maybe Lamar Jackson reinvents and becomes that type but so far he’s just displayed the Manziel model of downgrading performance. Culpepper was a similar victim of having Chris Carter and Randy Moss disguise his deficiencies. He’d throw at them and they’d catch it. He didn’t have the TRUE franchise QB attribute of making his receivers better...as Watson did with the lil WR that caught the winning TD against Bama. Jackson lost against KENTUCKY!

That Clemson team Watson left won 12 games last year and were back in the playoffs. Let see how Louisville does without Lamar Jackson next season before acting like Watson's college career was more impressive.

We've already seen that Josh Dobbs was far more important to his college team than Deshaun Watson. Tennessee won 5 less games in 2017 without Josh Dobbs and also went from a school record in points scored to one of the worst offenses in program history. Compare that to Clemson that only won 2 less games in 2017 than they did in 2016 with Deshaun Watson. Their offense was also still explosive during ACC play.

Clemson was a great program that made Deshaun Watson look good. Josh Dobbs was an all-time great talent than made Butch Jones and Tennessee look good.

 

[butchna]

If anyone is the next Danny Wuerffell it's Baker Mayfield. Another college star that fails in the NFL.

And FYI Matt Ryan only won MVP cause Kyle Shannahan is an offensive mastermind. Remember he made RG3 into a Rookie of the Year as well before he turned into a bust.

Matt Ryan is a slightly above average starting who can make the pro bowl every now and then. That is what Brad Kaaya will eventually become.

Or Shanahan was considered an “offensive mastermind” because he had a QB that made his playcalling appear so? Mayfield can make all the throws whilst Kaaya and Wuerffell had a system that compensated for their weaknesses...like in Leach’s offenses. Wuerffell won a NC because there was nothing mediocre about his football mind and instincts...those won him the Heisman. Kaaya on the other hand, never improved as a field general and was exploited by defensive schemes that exposed his tendencies...and he couldn’t adjust. At best, with his mediocre to weak arm he was a slightly more mobile Wuerffell...athlete wise. In essence, you put Wuerffell’s head on Kaaya’s body? You’d have Danny Wuerffell.