Recruiting Discussion

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#4,953
#4,953
BigZiti09 said:
Currently Barnes is targeting a five star to fill the only spot in the 2018 class. We hosted 3 top 100 players from the 2019 class along with a top 50 guy in the 2018 class.

Guess what Barnes is trying to add to this roster? More talented players.
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So you are talking about recruiting rankings? I thought you weren’t?
 
#4,955
#4,955
BigZiti09 said:
Baller = guys who are impact players, difference makers, someone that other teams have to specifically prepare for and worry about. We have 1 guy who fits that description and he's an undersized post player. Nothing wrong with that but we need better players to up our ceiling. Especially on the perimeter.

I don't know how ANYONE can argue against it. Barnes has obviously started to zero in on more highly rated players as of late so it looks like he agrees with me. I really don't understand why anyone would argue otherwise.
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You still haven’t answered my question...what happens if this is a S16 team, we add a “baller” and only win 15 games? Add more “ballers” then, or are coachable guys who buy into your system more important?
 
#4,956
#4,956
cncchris33 said:
I have criticized Ziti's opinion on the team, it's makeup, and Barnes's approach. He has softened it a bit over time now that he has seen results of that plan. Some may say that he just accepted the obvious after the fact, which was that Barnes had a plan, stuck with it, and it worked. But, at least he isn't still fighting a losing battle in an effort to be right.

Some would say that you are being intentionally obtuse at this point with regards to his stance on the roster. He has made his point pretty clear to me, and I hold a similar opinion to yours. Barnes has rebuilt the roster with underrated and unknown talents. That is pretty undeniable at this point. He also seems to have shifted his recruiting focus to more well-known commodities. That's a good thing. He feels he has a chance to get those guys now, and he has some success to sell to them where he didn't two years ago. Improving the roster from top to bottom isn't admitting that what we have now is garbage. It is admitting that we have areas where we can improve. As an example, I think we only have one current starter who would start on all of the other 13 SEC teams, and that is Grant Williams. I think we can all agree that the recruiting experts missed on him. I can't say the same for anyone else on our roster right now.

The pieces of this team seem to embody the notion that the whole is more than the sum of its parts.
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I’m not convinced Barnes is going to look to fill his roster with 5 stars, he is the first to tell people that was his undoing at Texas and led to his frustrations. Will he recruit some highly ranked guys, sure, but Simons is only one player. Last year we had Hubbs another 5*, and also Mostella a Top 50 4 Star, I don’t see Barnes all of a sudden going back to how he recruited at Texas, that is what I disagree with. To me that is what Ziti and others have inferred, that our roster should be filled with 4&5 stars...I remember threads being made pointing out the average number of 4&5 stars on final four team etc...

Do I think mixing in a Simons could work, absolutely...but looking at the 2019 guys we are targeting aren’t they pretty similar to what Barnes has already brought in? Gaines is a commit and ranked around 120, Burns is around 75th iirc, Jitoboh is unranked, Marcus Watson is a fringe 100 guys...I’m just not seeing this massive change in philosophy that seemingly is being suggested.
 
#4,957
#4,957
I guess my thought is is that it’s still too early to make a definitive statement like that, just as I maintained it was too early last season to claim Barnes’ strategy of building the program wasn’t working.

This team is still young, is that why they lost to Nova and UNC, or was it because they weren’t talented enough? I don’t think that answer is crystal clear, but clearly some do, that is where I disagree. Who hurt Tennessee in the Nova game? Redshirt junior Mikal Bridges and junior Jalen Brunson. Who hurt Tennessee in the UNC game? Seniors Joel Berry & Theo Pinson, also juniors Kenny Williams and Luke Maye.

My point being, if this team goes the rest of the year being ranked, is a top 3 SEC team, gets a 5 seed in the NCAAT and makes it to the Sweet 16...and then returns 12/13 scholarship players, how exactly can their talent be questioned? On paper that would be a pre-season Top 10 team going into 2018-2019 if the rest held up, how many Top 10’s team have their talent questioned? Does Wichita State need more talent?

If this team was 9-0 and ranked #1 in the county right now, would anyone be saying they need more talent, honest question?
 
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#4,958
#4,958
bleedingTNorange said:
I’m not convinced Barnes is going to look to fill his roster with 5 stars, he is the first to tell people that was his undoing at Texas and led to his frustrations. Will he recruit some highly ranked guys, sure, but Simons is only one player. Last year we had Hubbs another 5*, and also Mostella a Top 50 4 Star, I don’t see Barnes all of a sudden going back to how he recruited at Texas, that is what I disagree with. To me that is what Ziti and others have inferred, that our roster should be filled with 4&5 stars...I remember threads being made pointing out the average number of 4&5 stars on final four team etc...

Do I think mixing in a Simons could work, absolutely...but looking at the 2019 guys we are targeting aren’t they pretty similar to what Barnes has already brought in? Gaines is a commit and ranked around 120, Burns is around 75th iirc, Jitoboh is unranked, Marcus Watson is a fringe 100 guys...I’m just not seeing this massive change in philosophy that seemingly is being suggested.
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I don't think Ziti is suggesting a roster exclusively made up of top 50/top 75 players though. It seems to me that he is suggesting that mixing in several of those types in with your solid/skilled/hard-working role players will improve the overall talent level. How much better is this team if Jordan Bone, Kyle Alexander, and Admiral Schofield were you 8th, 9th, and 10th best players instead of starters? And you replaced them with Tremont Waters, Romello White, and Daniel Gafford. How much better is this team today? Next year?
 
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#4,959
#4,959
cncchris33 said:
I don't think Ziti is suggesting a roster exclusively made up of top 50/top 75 players though. It seems to me that he is suggesting that mixing in several of those types in with your solid/skilled/hard-working role players will improve the overall talent level. How much better is this team if Jordan Bone, Kyle Alexander, and Admiral Schofield were you 8th, 9th, and 10th best players instead of starters? And you replaced them with Tremont Waters, Romello White, and Daniel Gafford. How much better is this team today? Next year?
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I agree on the surface, but how well do they mesh? Do they listen to being coached? Does Waters bolt after a year because he doesn’t like college like the guard at South Carolina did, leaving them in a tough spot?

Again I’m not saying more talent wouldn’t be nice on the surface, but to me it’s just not that simple. Again I ask does the outcome of this year matter in this question? Does Wichita State need more talent? Is it possible to be ranked Top 10 and say your roster doesn’t have enough talent? What about Top 15?

You can look at every team in America and on power say well I would trade his guy for that guy....but how good does a team need to be before one would sit back and say, this is the roster I’m riding with?

Like I asked in my post above...If this team was 9-0 and ranked #1 in the county right now, would anyone be saying they need more talent, honest question?
 
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#4,960
#4,960
You win titles and tournament games with guards than can consistently get in the paint and create. Tennessee doesn’t have that guy. We need more creators at the guard position if Tennessee wants to be more than just a regular tournament team.
 
#4,961
#4,961
bleedingTNorange said:
I’m not convinced Barnes is going to look to fill his roster with 5 stars, he is the first to tell people that was his undoing at Texas and led to his frustrations. Will he recruit some highly ranked guys, sure, but Simons is only one player. Last year we had Hubbs another 5*, and also Mostella a Top 50 4 Star, I don’t see Barnes all of a sudden going back to how he recruited at Texas, that is what I disagree with. To me that is what Ziti and others have inferred, that our roster should be filled with 4&5 stars...I remember threads being made pointing out the average number of 4&5 stars on final four team etc...

Do I think mixing in a Simons could work, absolutely...but looking at the 2019 guys we are targeting aren’t they pretty similar to what Barnes has already brought in? Gaines is a commit and ranked around 120, Burns is around 75th iirc, Jitoboh is unranked, Marcus Watson is a fringe 100 guys...I’m just not seeing this massive change in philosophy that seemingly is being suggested.
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Geez oh Pete. I’ve never once said he has to land 5* players and fill the roster with only 4 and 5*.

I would honestly prefer guys ranked 30-100 that are 4 year players. Obviously you can find players outside of that are good and you can find busts within that range.

To your point above if we land all those guys they would be 3 of the top 4 highest rated players on the team.

The two 2018 targets discussed the other day would be our two highest rated.
 
#4,962
#4,962
bleedingTNorange said:
You still haven’t answered my question...what happens if this is a S16 team, we add a “baller” and only win 15 games? Add more “ballers” then, or are coachable guys who buy into your system more important?
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What happens if we add Simmons and become a final 4 team?

What happens if we land three 5*? What happens if we only recruit left handed kids? What happens if we recruit a team of only 7 footers?
 
#4,963
#4,963
BigZiti09 said:
What happens if we add Simmons and become a final 4 team?

What happens if we land three 5*? What happens if we only recruit left handed kids? What happens if we recruit a team of only 7 footers?
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Simple question...if we were 9-0 and ranked Top 5 would you still have this mindset? I’m not asking to back you into a corner or anything, I’m genuinely curious.
 
#4,965
#4,965
Stoked said:
Any chance Simmons just goes straight to the draft? He'd be eligible to go in the 2018 draft.
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At first reports were that he was leaning towards that. Recently, reports say he will most likely go to school for a year first.

He’s currently projected in the late 1st /early 2nd and I’m sure he understands that getting a good year of college experience (and coaching) will boost him to likely a top 10 pick.
 
#4,966
#4,966
bleedingTNorange said:
Simple question...if we were 9-0 and ranked Top 5 would you still have this mindset? I’m not asking to back you into a corner or anything, I’m genuinely curious.
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I can't answer that because we aren't 9-0. To be 9-0 I think we would have some guys who are better than they are.

I simply can't answer that question.

But I'll say this. Watching us play, regardless of the record, I can tell we are still lacking.

Now I will say that Daniel is starting to look like he could answer some questions for us. We will see.
 
#4,968
#4,968
BigZiti09 said:
I can't answer that because we aren't 9-0. To be 9-0 I think we would have some guys who are better than they are.

I simply can't answer that question.

But I'll say this. Watching us play, regardless of the record, I can tell we are still lacking.

Now I will say that Daniel is starting to look like he could answer some questions for us. We will see.
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Fair enough.

I understand we are 7-2 and not 9-0, however if Turner calls TO instead of turning it over and Vols hold on for the win...are we all of a sudden more talented? That was my general point.
 
#4,969
#4,969
bleedingTNorange said:
Fair enough.

I understand we are 7-2 and not 9-0, however if Turner calls TO instead of turning it over and Vols hold on for the win...are we all of a sudden more talented? That was my general point.
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I’m “look at the process first before the results” as much as anyone on this board, but even if we are 9-0, there is still a lack of a backcourt creator that UT needs. It almost cost us against the Ga Tech game too
 
#4,970
#4,970
zjcvols said:
I’m “look at the process first before the results” as much as anyone on this board, but even if we are 9-0, there is still a lack of a backcourt creator that UT needs. It almost cost us against the Ga Tech game too
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And that’s a fair take...now the question I would ask is “does that come with Daniel development or Bone/Turner getting older, or would a guy like say Mostella (Top 50) be a better facilitator than any of those guys regardless of experience?”

In other words, what if we add Simons and next year he’s behind Bone/Turner/Bowden/Darrington...are we still lacking talent or did our guys develop? As I pointed out in a previous post, the guards for Nova and UNC were experienced guys, not freshman or sophomores.
 
#4,971
#4,971
bleedingTNorange said:
And that’s a fair take...now the question I would ask is “does that come with Daniel development or Bone/Turner getting older, or would a guy like say Mostella (Top 50) be a better facilitator than any of those guys regardless of experience?”

In other words, what if we add Simons and next year he’s behind Bone/Turner/Bowden/Darrington...are we still lacking talent or did our guys develop? As I pointed out in a previous post, the guards for Nova and UNC were experienced guys, not freshman or sophomores.
Click to expand...

If Barnes thought Simons would be behind those guys in year one, he wouldn’t recruit him. There’s a reason he’s going after a future NBA player with his one scholly and not a development player.
 
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#4,972
#4,972
BTO - you are trying to "if" these guys on our team into superstars. What we need to add is somebody who we don't have to "if" into that role.
 
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