Recruiting Forum Talk XL

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#3,351
#3,351
McGeesPub said:
The fans and the media will have no bearing on whether the next coach is successful.
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Yeah. ultimately the next coach is going to succeed or not based mostly on his own actions, his staff and the program surrounding him.

That doesn't mean media and a section of the fanbase (led by some who fashion themselves as media) can't/haven't damage the program.
 
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#3,353
#3,353
McGeesPub said:
The fans and the media will have no bearing on whether the next coach is successful.
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Completely disagree. I think the fans and the media have made the Butch situation completely dysfunctional and untenable.

Yes, Butch has flaws, but he's also very good at certain aspects of his job. He's not been able to really turn the corner, and it may have been time to move on anyway, but the toxicity around this program because of the media and fan narrative about Butch is unbelievable -- and ultimately the reason why I am confident saying he will not be the coach next year, notwithstanding the fact that preseason expectations are still technically on the table (and would be much more realistic but for all the toxicity).

Butch is a national joke... and why? Because he has a turnover trash can, like every other freaking team in the country. And because he's so dadgum soft that he says things like, "This team we are playing Saturday is a really, really good team, and we can't take them for granted just because we've beat them the last 4 years." And because he talks about silly things like "eye discipline" and "leadership reps" and all sorts of ridiculous things like that that aren't ridiculous when other coaches and analysts say them. And because he played trumpet in high school. And so on and so forth.

Edited to add: And this narrative about Butch being a joke, etc., started years ago -- it isn't just a reaction to Butch proving not up to the task; it is a partial cause. These kids have the internet. How can he possibly be respected the locker room and on the recruiting trail when he is so widely mocked as a total joke of a coach?
 
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#3,354
#3,354
drylo said:
Completely disagree. I think the fans and the media have made the Butch situation completely dysfunctional and untenable.

Yes, Butch has flaws, but he's also very good at certain aspects of his job. He's not been able to really turn the corner, and it may have been time to move on anyway, but the toxicity around this program because of the media and fan narrative about Butch is unbelievable -- and ultimately the reason why I am confident saying he will not be the coach next year, notwithstanding the fact that preseason expectations are still technically on the table (and would be much more realistic but for all the toxicity).

Butch is a national joke... and why? Because he has a turnover trash can, like every other freaking team in the country. And because he's so dadgum soft that he says things like, "This team we are playing Saturday is a really, really good team, and we can't take them for granted just because we've beat them the last 4 years." And because he talks about silly things like "eye discipline" and "leadership reps" and all sorts of ridiculous things like that that aren't ridiculous when other coaches and analysts say them. And because he played trumpet in high school. And so on and so forth.

Edited to add: And this narrative about Butch being a joke, etc., started years ago -- it isn't just a reaction to Butch proving not up to the task; it is a partial cause. These kids have the internet. How can he possibly be respected the locker room and on the recruiting trail when he is so widely mocked as a total joke of a coach?
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Just don’t buy it. If Butch wins, all this other crap falls to the side. Media doesn’t help anything and we definitely have some bad media people but none of that matter if Butch wins. But he didn’t, and here we are.
 
#3,355
#3,355
chavisut said:
Yeah. Ignore the context of the program he's at and the uphill battle that is MSU.
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I have never said that he isn't a good coach. I know he is, but just don't think he is Tennessee Volunteers football program savior material. We need somebody much muchier..
 
#3,357
#3,357
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I think B+ is a perfect grade for Mullen. He’s a B+ hire. I just think we need an A+ at this moment. Kirby has GA rolling, Florida will get it right when Mac is done. We play Saban every year. If we don’t get this hire right we aren’t going to win any championships for a long time. That’s why Frost excites me more than Mullen. The guy just has future superstar potential. We would all have been thrilled if we had hired Herman last year. Frost is this year’s Herman.
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I agree with Bass..
 
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#3,358
#3,358
drylo said:
Completely disagree. I think the fans and the media have made the Butch situation completely dysfunctional and untenable.

Yes, Butch has flaws, but he's also very good at certain aspects of his job. He's not been able to really turn the corner, and it may have been time to move on anyway, but the toxicity around this program because of the media and fan narrative about Butch is unbelievable -- and ultimately the reason why I am confident saying he will not be the coach next year, notwithstanding the fact that preseason expectations are still technically on the table (and would be much more realistic but for all the toxicity).

Butch is a national joke... and why? Because he has a turnover trash can, like every other freaking team in the country. And because he's so dadgum soft that he says things like, "This team we are playing Saturday is a really, really good team, and we can't take them for granted just because we've beat them the last 4 years." And because he talks about silly things like "eye discipline" and "leadership reps" and all sorts of ridiculous things like that that aren't ridiculous when other coaches and analysts say them. And because he played trumpet in high school. And so on and so forth.

Edited to add: And this narrative about Butch being a joke, etc., started years ago -- it isn't just a reaction to Butch proving not up to the task; it is a partial cause. These kids have the internet. How can he possibly be respected the locker room and on the recruiting trail when he is so widely mocked as a total joke of a coach?
Click to expand...

Sorry, not buying that. I think you only have to look a couple of years back to see an example of a completely toxic situation not only not hampering a team, but potentially spurring it to success. The Bruce Pearl petition was one of the more surreal, absurd moments in my time as a UT fan. It was a national story, and really did create a tough environment for Cuonzo (who was no great coach, but didn't deserve that). Did that toxicity manifest itself in more losses? Nope, an underachieving team went to the Sweet 16. Whether it was through a bunker mentality or CCM's coaching, the season didn't tank. So no, I don't think the "fans and the media" are responsible for the losses based on toxicity. I think that's an excuse from people dying to still make some excuses for Butch.

Re: Butch doing a lot of things well...what's on that list these days?
 
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#3,359
#3,359
Nash_Vol97 said:
Just don’t buy it. If Butch wins, all this other crap falls to the side. Media doesn’t help anything and we definitely have some bad media people but none of that matter if Butch wins. But he didn’t, and here we are.
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True, to some extent, but he did win 9 games the last two years (and was generally competitive in the losses). He had the program on a clear upward trajectory, but those few games that he lost were the fodder for all of the Butch hate, which has metastasized into a cancer that is killing his career.

Like I said, he does have some flaws, and I think we have an opportunity to upgrade with this hire regardless, but that doesn't mean that the media/fan behavior is healthy -- it's not, and if it continues, we will struggle (absent a miracle where a new coach comes in and wins huge immediately).
 
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#3,360
#3,360
Atlanta Vol posted this in the Gruden thread. Nothing crazy but the last paragraph is interesting on the recruiting front.

Good afternoon everyone!

Ok someone has to be able to figure out how to get a PM to someone if you accept them as a friend on here? Only makes sense? Need to reach two folks who have become friends on here but without posting way to reach me...

Also I have seen some concern on here about Cade Mays...honestly I don’t have much concern here at all as long as we get someone with half a pulse in to run the program...the whole opening up recruitment...incredible move on big poppa part to amp up the pressure when it was needed on the bj front.
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#3,363
#3,363
McGeesPub said:
Sorry, not buying that. I think you only have to look a couple of years back to see an example of a completely toxic situation not only not hampering a team, but potentially spurring it to success. The Bruce Pearl petition was one of the more surreal, absurd moments in my time as a UT fan. It was a national story, and really did create a tough environment for Cuonzo (who was no great coach, but didn't deserve that). Did that toxicity manifest itself in more losses? Nope, an underachieving team went to the Sweet 16. Whether it was through a bunker mentality or CCM's coaching, the season didn't tank. So no, I don't think the "fans and the media" are responsible for the losses based on toxicity. I think that's an excuse from people dying to still make some excuses for Butch.

Re: Butch doing a lot of things well...what's on that list these days?
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It's a lot easier to win three basketball games (play-in game, 6-seed and 14-seed) with three NBA players on your team than it is to do whatever you're saying Butch should have done.
 
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#3,365
#3,365
Kingston Vol said:
Exactly. Best case scenario is he goes 8-4 and they show him the door anyway.

If he loses this Saturday I think he's gone. If he wins, he gets another week.

It's pretty simple.
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I just don't see how it's possible to keep any lame duck coach anymore woth the early signing period. If we held him the while season, recruits would have long since jumped ship to somewhere where they know who the coach will be. Unless you fire Butch and simultaneously announce the new hire (unlikely), it would be recruiting suicide to keep him all season.
 
#3,367
#3,367
jave36 said:
I just don't see how it's possible to keep any lame duck coach anymore woth the early signing period. If we held him the while season, recruits would have long since jumped ship to somewhere where they know who the coach will be. Unless you fire Butch and simultaneously announce the new hire (unlikely), it would be recruiting suicide to keep him all season.
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Pretty sure the AD knows this. It's just my take, but I believe Butch is still around for a reason and that's because they have made strides with a new coach.

Herman was hired in a day, and Fuente was hired in a day. There is precedent for an official firing and hiring done very quickly.
 
#3,368
#3,368
drylo said:
True, to some extent, but he did win 9 games the last two years (and was generally competitive in the losses). He had the program on a clear upward trajectory, but those few games that he lost were the fodder for all of the Butch hate, which has metastasized into a cancer that is killing his career.

Like I said, he does have some flaws, and I think we have an opportunity to upgrade with this hire regardless, but that doesn't mean that the media/fan behavior is healthy -- it's not, and if it continues, we will struggle (absent a miracle where a new coach comes in and wins huge immediately).
Click to expand...

I can agree with some of that but do you remember the fan behavior when it looked like Butch was going to turn out to be a good hire? The gifs. The pics. The memes. Fans and even the twitter mafia will get behind a coach if they believe. Problem is over time they lost belief. If the new coach comes in and wins, he will be praised. If he loses, much of the same.
 
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#3,369
#3,369
jave36 said:
I just don't see how it's possible to keep any lame duck coach anymore woth the early signing period. If we held him the while season, recruits would have long since jumped ship to somewhere where they know who the coach will be. Unless you fire Butch and simultaneously announce the new hire (unlikely), it would be recruiting suicide to keep him all season.
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I think if you fire him right now the recruits go elsewhere anyway.

Unfortunately we're going to be the Guinea pig for the new signing period. Chances are this class is going to suffer no matter what.
 
#3,371
#3,371
jave36 said:
I just don't see how it's possible to keep any lame duck coach anymore woth the early signing period. If we held him the while season, recruits would have long since jumped ship to somewhere where they know who the coach will be. Unless you fire Butch and simultaneously announce the new hire (unlikely), it would be recruiting suicide to keep him all season.
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This doesn't make any sense to me. Firing Butch doesn't stabilize recruiting. Hiring a new coach does.
 
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#3,372
#3,372
Kingston Vol said:
I think if you fire him right now the recruits go elsewhere anyway.

Unfortunately we're going to be the Guinea pig for the new signing period. Chances are this class is going to suffer no matter what.
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But you can start the process once you fire him. If we don't even start the process till December, no way we have a coach in place in time for signing day.
 
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#3,375
#3,375
VolGee4 said:
Pretty sure the AD knows this. It's just my take, but I believe Butch is still around for a reason and that's because they have made strides with a new coach.

Herman was hired in a day, and Fuente was hired in a day. There is precedent for an official firing and hiring done very quickly.
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Wasn't strong fired mid November? And beamer was publicly done prior to December as well.
 
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