To Protect and to Serve II

#3,976
#3,976
armchair said:
Policeman shoots and kills disoriented young person with knife.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/ge...091817georgia-tech-student-killed1215PMVODtop

YET another example of how poorly trained and fearful the police are. We should not be killing people having a mental episode, even if they have a knife. Are you telling me there are not alternative methods to disabling someone? There are--but our cops are just too fearful or poorly training to use them. This has happened a LOT over the years. Our cops are clueless when it comes to dealing more wisely with physical threats.
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Someone with a weapon screaming shoot me and wanting to die (you kinda left that part out), is definitely a risk of trying to kill or hurt the officer. While there are many stories where you can chance a taxer first, this isn't one.
 
#3,977
#3,977
joevol33 said:
Someone with a weapon screaming shoot me and wanting to die (you kinda left that part out), is definitely a risk of trying to kill or hurt the officer. While there are many stories where you can chance a taxer first, this isn't one.
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This person had tried to commit suicide in the past. It's obvious that they aren't mentally stable, but the cops don't have a clue about what someone does in the past. Totally justified in my opinion.
 
#3,978
#3,978
First, every police officer or security officer eligible to carry a weapon should be carrying a taser of some kind. It is crazy that in 2017 many if not most cops still only carry handguns, given that they are far more likely to need to subdue someone as opposed to shooting and killing them.

Second, if you are a cop and call in a report of somebody with a weapon, I'm pretty sure help will arrive pretty quickly--and meantime, there are things that can be done to mitigate the situation for a few minutes. You can talk to the disturbed person, you can clear the area, you can back away; you can, in short, stall until help arrives--but of course help would just be more cops inclined to pull out their guns.

Third, I find it incomprehensible that police officers are not trained to shoot a potential assailant in the leg. I'm PRETTY sure that shooting a knife-carrier in the leg would end the threat, as a bullet in the leg TENDS to be pretty painful and incapacitating. Why wouldn't this be a part of our police training, in a situation like this. I'm not suggesting that cops in a gunfight try to shoot an assailant in the leg; I'm suggesting if some disturbed person is standing 12 feet in front of you with a knife, shooting in the leg certainly seems like a viable option that would involve no loss of life. You know what's also incomprehensible: Let's say there were three cops and one disturbed kid with a knife (of some kind). If I were one of the three cops, I would be inclined to suggest to my fellow officers that we tackle the guy and subdue him--perhaps after one cop distracts him or somesuch. Would one or more of the officers risk getting stabbed? Yea, maybe--but they'd also be protecting the life of the mentally disturbed person. Alas, our cops do not think that way.

Fourth, cops deal with mental troubled people every day. Indeed, a large number of individual disturbances they deal with are people with mental problems. If a young person is standing in the public place in ratty clothes and no shoes and is holding a knife, it doesn't take a Ph.D. to know that he's probably having a mental episode. In fact, that is almost always the case. Rational people do not take weapons out in public.

Fifth, and I alluded to this above, being a police officer MEANS that you will probably experience threats. That's part of the deal of being a cop. And yet we have loads of cops who are absolutely terrified of getting hurt and this is a big reason why so many police needlessly shoot and kill people. I should think that a HUGE part of police training would focus on subduing people without loss of life, since incidents like this are very common. But apparently this isn't the case. If somebody has a weapon, cops tend to pull out their guns and shoot. Almost anybody with a gun can shoot somebody; I should think the point of having a well-trained police force is to try and avoid shooting unless it is absolutely necessary. I think our cops generally are trained not to take any chances, which, again, is risk averse strategy that doesn't require much training. This points up how unsophisticated our police training is, in my opinion. Cops would respond to all this by saying that shooting someone is the most efficient way to protect the public. Protecting the public is crucial--but what's being missed is that a disturbed person with a modest knife is the public too. He or she deserves to get mental help, not be shot and killed.

It is weird how primitive America is in so many ways, still. We have a reputation for being an "advanced" country and that isn't even remotely the case.
 
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#3,979
#3,979
armchair said:
First, every police officer or security officer eligible to carry a weapon should be carrying a taser of some kind. It is crazy that in 2017 many if not most cops still only carry handguns, given that they are far more likely to need to subdue someone as opposed to shooting and killing them.

Second, if you are a cop and call in a report of somebody with a weapon, I'm pretty sure help will arrive pretty quickly--and meantime, there are things that can be done to allay the situation from the start of the incident until help arrives. You can talk to the disturbed person, you can clear the area, you can back away; you can stall until help arrives--but of course that would just be more cops inclined to pull out their guns.

Third, I find it incomprehensible that police officers would not be trained to shoot a potential assailant in the leg. I'm PRETTY sure that shooting a knife-carrier in the leg would end the threat, as a bullet in the leg TENDS to be pretty painful and incapacitating. You know what's also incomprehensible: Let's say there were three cops and one disturbed kid with a knife (of some kind). If I were one of the three cops, I would be inclined to suggest to my fellow officers that we tackle the guy and subdue him--perhaps after one cop distracts him or somesuch. Would one or more of the officers risk getting stabbed? Yea, maybe--but they'd also be protecting the life of the mentally disturbed person. Alas, our cops do not think that way.

Fourth, cops deal with mental troubled people every day. Indeed, a large number of individual disturbances they deal with are people with mental problems. If a young person is standing in the public place in ratty clothes and no shoes and is holding a knife, it doesn't take a Ph.D. to know that he's probably having a mental episode. In fact, that is almost always the case. Rational people do not take weapons out in public.

Fifth, and I alluded to this above, being a police officer MEANS that you will probably experience threats. That's part of the deal of being a cop. And yet we have loads of cops who are absolutely terrified of getting hurt and this is a big reason why so many police needlessly shoot and kill people. I should think that a HUGE part of police training would focus on subduing people without loss of life, since incidents like this are very common. But apparently this isn't the case. If somebody has a weapon, cops tend to pull out their guns and shoot. Almost anybody with a gun can shoot somebody; I should think the point of having a well-trained police force is to try and avoid shooting unless it is absolutely necessary. I think our cops generally are trained not to take any chances, which, again, is risk averse strategy that doesn't require much training. This points up how unsophisticated our police training is, in my opinion.

It is weird how primitive America is in so many ways, still. We have a reputation for being an "advanced" country and that isn't even remotely the case.
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Lol Hi Ho Silver!!! Shoot 'em in the leg!!

You've never even shot a cap gun.... gtfo
 
#3,982
#3,982
Rasputin_Vol said:
What about using bolas at the legs? That is another non-lethal tactic that has been used outside of the US.
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Blow darts with tranqulizing drops on the end.

Hypnosis.

Sing a soothing song.

Shoot knife out of hand like Clint Eastwood movie.

All good options when a person with a knife is advancing on you, like three or four times, after call they are wandering around campus armed.
 
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#3,983
#3,983
Rasputin_Vol said:
What about using bolas at the legs? That is another non-lethal tactic that has been used outside of the US.
Click to expand...

You want cops to carry around those things on a daily basis? As well as the training required to use such a tool? It ain't as easy as the movies portray.

A Taser is far more effective provided it can be used. However, even those are getting blamed for accidental deaths.
 
#3,985
#3,985
How about not telling the cop to shoot you and look like a raving lunatic while holding a knife all the while advancing on the officer. I have 0 problem with the ga tech shooting. Know why? If someone advances on me with a knife, they're dead. I can't, in good conscience, rail the cop for using the same tactics I would've employed myself.
 
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#3,986
#3,986
lawgator1 said:
Blow darts with tranqulizing drops on the end.

Hypnosis.

Sing a soothing song.

Shoot knife out of hand like Clint Eastwood movie.

All good options when a person with a knife is advancing on you, like three or four times, after call they are wandering around campus armed.
Click to expand...

You're being ridiculous.

I'm being reasonable.

Again, there are several examples of police handling people with knives without killing them. I know it is hard for you to believe or understand, but it does happen quite often.
 
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#3,987
#3,987
armchair said:
First, every police officer or security officer eligible to carry a weapon should be carrying a taser of some kind. It is crazy that in 2017 many if not most cops still only carry handguns, given that they are far more likely to need to subdue someone as opposed to shooting and killing them.

Second, if you are a cop and call in a report of somebody with a weapon, I'm pretty sure help will arrive pretty quickly--and meantime, there are things that can be done to mitigate the situation for a few minutes. You can talk to the disturbed person, you can clear the area, you can back away; you can, in short, stall until help arrives--but of course help would just be more cops inclined to pull out their guns.

Third, I find it incomprehensible that police officers are not trained to shoot a potential assailant in the leg. I'm PRETTY sure that shooting a knife-carrier in the leg would end the threat, as a bullet in the leg TENDS to be pretty painful and incapacitating. Why wouldn't this be a part of our police training, in a situation like this. I'm not suggesting that cops in a gunfight try to shoot an assailant in the leg; I'm suggesting if some disturbed person is standing 12 feet in front of you with a knife, shooting in the leg certainly seems like a viable option that would involve no loss of life. You know what's also incomprehensible: Let's say there were three cops and one disturbed kid with a knife (of some kind). If I were one of the three cops, I would be inclined to suggest to my fellow officers that we tackle the guy and subdue him--perhaps after one cop distracts him or somesuch. Would one or more of the officers risk getting stabbed? Yea, maybe--but they'd also be protecting the life of the mentally disturbed person. Alas, our cops do not think that way.

Fourth, cops deal with mental troubled people every day. Indeed, a large number of individual disturbances they deal with are people with mental problems. If a young person is standing in the public place in ratty clothes and no shoes and is holding a knife, it doesn't take a Ph.D. to know that he's probably having a mental episode. In fact, that is almost always the case. Rational people do not take weapons out in public.

Fifth, and I alluded to this above, being a police officer MEANS that you will probably experience threats. That's part of the deal of being a cop. And yet we have loads of cops who are absolutely terrified of getting hurt and this is a big reason why so many police needlessly shoot and kill people. I should think that a HUGE part of police training would focus on subduing people without loss of life, since incidents like this are very common. But apparently this isn't the case. If somebody has a weapon, cops tend to pull out their guns and shoot. Almost anybody with a gun can shoot somebody; I should think the point of having a well-trained police force is to try and avoid shooting unless it is absolutely necessary. I think our cops generally are trained not to take any chances, which, again, is risk averse strategy that doesn't require much training. This points up how unsophisticated our police training is, in my opinion. Cops would respond to all this by saying that shooting someone is the most efficient way to protect the public. Protecting the public is crucial--but what's being missed is that a disturbed person with a modest knife is the public too. He or she deserves to get mental help, not be shot and killed.

It is weird how primitive America is in so many ways, still. We have a reputation for being an "advanced" country and that isn't even remotely the case.
Click to expand...
You should use this situation to complain that all LBQT are crazy and this is what happens when they have knives.

Good Lord was this "person" messed up in the head.

Schultz was president of Pride Alliance at Georgia Tech. The fourth-year computer engineering student used the name Scout, rather than the given name Scott, and preferred the pronouns "they" and "them" rather than "he" or "him."

"I'm bisexual, nonbinary and intersex," Schultz wrote in a Pride Alliance profile.
 
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#3,988
#3,988
Grand Vol said:
You want cops to carry around those things on a daily basis? As well as the training required to use such a tool? It ain't as easy as the movies portray.
Click to expand...
You do realize that they have bola projectiles from a pistol grip device, right? It wouldn't be anymore training than using a taser... probably less training.
 
#3,990
#3,990
lawgator1 said:
Blow darts with tranqulizing drops on the end.

Hypnosis.

Sing a soothing song.

Shoot knife out of hand like Clint Eastwood movie.

All good options when a person with a knife is advancing on you, like three or four times, after call they are wandering around campus armed.
Click to expand...

+1

Boom.
 
#3,992
#3,992
Rasputin_Vol said:
You do realize that they have bola projectiles from a pistol grip device, right? It wouldn't be anymore training than using a taser... probably less training.
Click to expand...

I've always enjoyed the thought of our LE using nunchucks. We should standardize a national force of martial artists and replace SWAT teams with ninjas equipped with throwing stars.
 
#3,994
#3,994
InVOLuntary said:
What about a bean bag round here? Not that I disagree with the actions of police here. She got what she was evidently seeking. Bean bag t the chest seems like it may have been a solution.
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Even those are lethal within a certain range (that's not really advertised) and typically, it's a shotgun that's used as the launcher.

Provided it's an option, but the responding officer would have to double and triple check to make sure the less than lethal rounds were loaded. There won't always be time to check on such things in this day of active shooters.
 
#3,995
#3,995
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
How about not telling the cop to shoot you and look like a raving lunatic while holding a knife all the while advancing on the officer. I have 0 problem with the ga tech shooting. Know why? If someone advances on me with a knife, they're dead. I can't, in good conscience, rail the cop for using the same tactics I would've employed myself.
Click to expand...

Yep....
 
#3,996
#3,996
Am I surprised by the response of southern men to this? Ha, not in the least. The fact is, our police are poorly trained and our philosophy of policing is antiquated--but the rednecks do like it. Any goober can pull out his gun and shoot somebody--you don't need much training to do that. It's like Jerry Brown just said of Trump supporters--"cave dwellers."
 
#3,997
#3,997
armchair said:
Am I surprised by the response of southern men to this? Ha, not in the least. The fact is, our police are poorly trained and our philosophy of policing is antiquated--but the rednecks do like it. Any goober can pull out his gun and shoot somebody--you don't need much training to do that. It's like Jerry Brown just said of Trump supporters--"cave dwellers."
Click to expand...

Did they kill a man or woman?
 
#3,998
#3,998
armchair said:
Am I surprised by the response of southern men to this? Ha, not in the least. The fact is, our police are poorly trained and our philosophy of policing is antiquated--but the rednecks do like it. Any goober can pull out his gun and shoot somebody--you don't need much training to do that. It's like Jerry Brown just said of Trump supporters--"cave dwellers."
Click to expand...

Ever done it?
 
#3,999
#3,999
Lol at Armchair. If he was held a knife point and the cops showed up, he'd be yelling at the cop to shoot him. After he shat his pants.
 
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