Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[SergeantVol]

He's also had ample time to fix it.

So going from 5-7 to 7-6 and two seasons of 9-4 is not fixing it?

That kinda looks like improvement to me. I mean unless you want bottled lightining that only 3 active coaches have done in FBS and the last NC coach isn't one of them. I get it, Butch is supposed to be Saban, Meyer, or Harbaugh! I'm sure if he had the rosters they inherited, he would have done just as well.

 

[Kingston Vol]

You are FOS. 6-6 would send Butch packing. There are so many variables that you aren't even taking into account. Do you even analysis, bro?

6-6 would for sure. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying even after this year, if you give Tennessee 8 wins and Florida 6, McElwain would STILL have a better winning percentage than Butch and would lose his job.

Larger point: Florida will not tolerate anything other than excellence. Tennessee has proven it will.

 

[SergeantVol]

Some of the worst I've seen is on the Rivals main board. Some of those "vol fans" trash Butch and UT worse than rival fans, it's disgusting. I can't even read Vol related threads on their most of the time, it makes me physically ill how our fans talk about our coach and program. It's one thing when it's a rival, I get that, but when it's your own fans?

This. I see it everywhere. Even talking to Vol fans who don't post. They regurgitate what ESPN and the other talking heads say. I re-educate all the time (thanks to info from here and the ability to apply critical thinking).

 

[BigZiti09]

Yes. 2015 and last year we were picked by a lot of national people to do better than we did. And we lost 2015 in especially spectacular fashion by giving up huge leads. And after choking away the east last year Butch told everyone that he never said winning the east was the goal. These are the things that have gotten the national media spinning us in a negative way. Not our fans' social media

Wrong again. 2015 we were preseason number 25. Finished 22.

I realize you don't want it to be a reality that our negative fans have a negative impact on the program but the sad fact is that it's true.

This fanbase has been through a lot and one thing you can count on is this fanbase is always gonna do its part when it comes to showing up and supporting the program. We have the best fans in the country when it comes to that. We deserve better than what we've got over the past 15 years. That's for all sports and not just football. The Bruce Pearl era being the lone bright spot in the big two sports.

But the negativity this program receives is in large part to a section of our fanbase that has shaped the way we are covered by our own media and the national media. It's true whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Kingston Vol]

So going from 5-7 to 7-6 and two seasons of 9-4 is not fixing it?

That kinda looks like improvement to me. I mean unless you want bottled lightining that only 3 active coaches have done in FBS and the last NC coach isn't one of them. I get it, Butch is supposed to be Saban, Meyer, or Harbaugh! I'm sure if he had the rosters they inherited, he would have done just as well.

Nope. Nope. Nope. I've never stated Butch should have won a championship by now. However, I do think last year he was handed the East and squandered it away. He was then handed an opportunity to go to the Sugar Bowl - all you've gotta do is beat Vandy - and we couldn't do it.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

What are you basing this on? Article or stats or something?

Idk about how this relates to the size of UT social media presence but this is still relevant to the topic.
At the Under Armour game UT was voted the most obnoxious fanbase on Twitter. The recruits notice.

 

[VolGee4]

It absolutely could. McElwain could go 6-6 and Butch could go 8-4 this year and McElwain would still have a better win percentage (.625 - .615) than Butch.

You know what the difference is, though? Florida would send McElwain packing. Butch might get an extension.

If Butch beats McElwain again, then McElwain might go packing for something that happened twice and hadn't happened at UF in the last 11 years. This would be at the hands of Butch.

If that indeed happens, you can actually make a good argument that Butch had a huge helping hand in ending the jobs for Spurrier, Richt, and McElwain.

 

[SergeantVol]

6-6 would for sure. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying even after this year, if you give Tennessee 8 wins and Florida 6, McElwain would STILL have a better winning percentage than Butch and would lose his job.

Larger point: Florida will not tolerate anything other than excellence. Tennessee has proven it will.

You have to look at each season individually and apply rational thought to future projections. Would Butch be extended for an 8-5 season? Maybe. What does his recruiting class look like? Were the losses competitive? How much young talent is on the team? Is he making staff changes for the areas that have shown regression?

As a manager, I try to do the same thing for my employees. I am sure the AD has frequent sit downs with Butch to outline goals and track progress. If certain conditions aren't met, then you are fired.

What you stated is over simplified.

 

[RikidyBones]

which one of you is Kevin?

 

[BigZiti09]

6-6 would for sure. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying even after this year, if you give Tennessee 8 wins and Florida 6, McElwain would STILL have a better winning percentage than Butch and would lose his job.

Larger point: Florida will not tolerate anything other than excellence. Tennessee has proven it will.

Wrong. Butch and McElwain both go 6-6 this year then Butch is the only one getting fired.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Go be a Florida fan then. You pretty much already are.

I've never really looked good in jorts.

 

[jave36]

Link?

I seem to remember the opposite. No one predicted a tough team that would have close loses to OU and Bama, much less UF and UGA. If I remember correctly, the talking heads predicted 6-6 or 7-5 for 2015, not an SECE title.

Hype wasn't as strong as 2016, but there were plenty who said we'd be in Atlanta. I listen to sports radio all day every day. There were plenty. Then we choked away double digit leads multiple times on the national stage. Those are the things that got our program talked about badly, not fans on Volnation.com

 

[BigZiti09]

Hype wasn't as strong as 2016, but there were plenty who said we'd be in Atlanta. I listen to sports radio all day every day. There were plenty. Then we choked away double digit leads multiple times on the national stage. Those are the things that got our program talked about bad, not fans on Volnation.com

Zero national hype for the Vols in 2015. The only hype for that season was here on volnation.

 

[InVOLuntary]

which one of you is Kevin?

Did it show pictures of the wife?

 

[SergeantVol]

Nope. Nope. Nope. I've never stated Butch should have won a championship by now. However, I do think last year he was handed the East and squandered it away. He was then handed an opportunity to go to the Sugar Bowl - all you've gotta do is beat Vandy - and we couldn't do it.

I partially agree. The expectation for last year was there. Win the East. You have the most talent. I am not sure what caused all the injuries. Could have been S&C. Who knows 100%. But given the fact that he amassed all of the talent required to take the East, we are still on the right path.

 

[LifeisO&W]

Has anyone started the Butch Jones doomsday clock thread yet?

 

[ChattaTNVol]

It's obvious our fanbase is the most active on social media. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

These are the latest twittter numbers I could find (Note: I'm not sure about Saban but he opened the door to twitter in 2015 and the account was established in Jan 2016. I think all of these are real but I don't know about Saban).

Number of twitter followers

1. Butch Jones 1,320,000
2. Will Muschamp 278,000
3. Bret Bielema 254,000
4. Gus Malzahn 192,000
5. Mark Stoops 153,000
6. Dan Mullen 146,000
7. Kirby Smart 139,000
8. Jim McElwain 119,000
9. Kevin Sumlin 101,000
10. Ed Ogeron 77,300
11. Derek Mason 32,500
12. Gary Odom 18,000
13. Matt Luke 16,000
14. Nick Saban 7,530

 

[AAVFL]

6-6 would for sure. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying even after this year, if you give Tennessee 8 wins and Florida 6, McElwain would STILL have a better winning percentage than Butch and would lose his job.

Larger point: Florida will not tolerate anything other than excellence. Tennessee has proven it will.

They would not can McElwain if he won 6 this year. He would be on the hot seat and 2018 would be a make or break year. If you can't see the difference in trajectories of the two programs you're blind. To go 10-2, to 8-4, and if this year to win 6 is on a very different path of 5, 6, 8, 8. Let this season play out. He could get us to 9 or 10 wins. What he inherited wasn't a quick fix. It took 2-3 years to purge Doofus stank. Now we're stable lets see what happens. Maybe Butchs ultimate contribution will be getting us on firm footing and someone else gets us over the hump.

 

[jave36]

Zero national hype for the Vols in 2015. The only hype for that season was here on volnation.

LOL, zero? Not a single national person predicted we'd win the east? You listened to and read every single one to get their predictions and made a spreadsheet?

 

[SergeantVol]

Hype wasn't as strong as 2016, but there were plenty who said we'd be in Atlanta. I listen to sports radio all day every day. There were plenty. Then we choked away double digit leads multiple times on the national stage. Those are the things that got our program talked about badly, not fans on Volnation.com

The negative talk has been going on since 2008 ish. (our decline).

 

[jave36]

The negative talk has been going on since 2008 ish. (our decline).

And our poor performance on the field, our decline, is 100% responsible for that. Not fans on a message board.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Did it show pictures of the wife?

If it's part of the package deal, you probably don't want to see

 

[BruinVol]

The negative talk has been going on since 2008 ish. (our decline).

There has been negative talk forever.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Didn't mean to start the Butch argument back up. It's Florida week - let's enjoy it. We'll know Saturday night what the future holds either way.


Drain. The. Swamp.

 

[SergeantVol]

And our poor performance on the field, our decline, is 100% responsible for that. Not fans on a message board.

And who do you think advances that narrative? Who drives subscriptions to these sites? Honest journalism is dead. It is all about shock value and pandering to fanbases. That is where the money is at. While the above factors did indeed advance that narrative, I don't think you give enough credence to the influence of a fanbase.