Disappointment..

[81Orange]

I also hope Jones succeeds at UT. I also just don't see it happening. He is simply too arrogant to allow his "new assistants" to actually do things the right way. He is so enamored with his MAC offense that he will not adapt to the SEC. I'll eat the crow if he proves me wrong! GO BIG ORANGE!

Nothing wrong with that offensive system. They have racked up the yards. Imaging the yards they will get when a good online brings consistancy. Long drives that eat of the time of possession. Denfense has been the problem and we have invested heavily there the past two years.

 

[volfan102455]

Nothing wrong with that offensive system. They have racked up the yards. Imaging the yards they will get when a good online brings consistancy. Long drives that eat of the time of possession. Denfense has been the problem and we have invested heavily there the past two years.

I agree. I think some do not like this type of offense and thus try to place the blame on that side of the ball when in reality offense is not a problem.

 

[volfan102455]

i personally didn't see the big deal about it tbh. and as the aftermath of "disapointgate" continues, i still don't see the big deal here.

he's an ultra positive guy, that doesn't want any ounce of negativity to fester INSIDE the program.

i had a boss once when i was a whole lot younger that told me..."there's only opportunities". i asked what the hell that meant...and he went on to explain....a failure is only a failure if you do nothing with it, and get better as a result. you aren't going to be perfect or do a good job all the time. you will make mistakes, and you will fail.

all they are, are opportunities to succeed. i think Butch sees things similarly, right or wrong.

but here's the deal, and something i've just come to accept about the guy...this IS who he is, and it wouldn't do him or the program any good to change is basic, core philosophy. that would make him more of a phonie.

all in all, if this is the only thing that has people's shorts in a bunch, i call it a win. we've seen and heard worse. and at the end of the day, he said what mattered...."there's more for us to do in terms of winning championships, that's the expectation, and we understand that".

This is the philosophy employed by the company where I work - when one doesn't met an expectation it is viewed as an opportunity to get better. The wording sends a more positive message.

I agree that seems to be CBJ"s nature and there is nothing wrong with that. Some seem to like a more direct "call out the person that made the mistake and hang them out to dry approach". I have found when dealing with a team of folks that have to work together - that very rarely works. Pointing fingers is not necessary. That only divides the team.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the message CBJ gave - he followed the "not disappointed" by clearly saying expectations were not all met. He knows, the team knows where they did not succeed at last season.

Personally I think we need to move on and believe in their ability and desire to correct the things they need to. This constant ridicule for things that happened in the past is as one of the players stated dis-respect not only for CBJ but also for the team.

 

[LA Vol]

I'm not sure we can really evaluate this offensive system. A big part of our production has been Dobbs scrambling. His elusiveness allowed him to make something out of nothing, gaining a lot of rushing yards that a QB like Dormady simply wouldn't get. The abilities of Dobbs and Kamara are very different from Dormady and Kelly. So the offense will be different.

JG is more of a scrambler-- like a FR Dobbs with a stronger arm. Using two QBs would be interesting, but IDT we'll go that way long. IMO, Butch is looking for one of them to claim the job and I think one will.

 

[jakez4ut]

This is the philosophy employed by the company where I work - when one doesn't met an expectation it is viewed as an opportunity to get better. The wording sends a more positive message.

I agree that seems to be CBJ"s nature and there is nothing wrong with that. Some seem to like a more direct "call out the person that made the mistake and hang them out to dry approach". I have found when dealing with a team of folks that have to work together - that very rarely works. Pointing fingers is not necessary. That only divides the team.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the message CBJ gave - he followed the "not disappointed" by clearly saying expectations were not all met. He knows, the team knows where they did not succeed at last season.

Personally I think we need to move on and believe in their ability and desire to correct the things they need to. This constant ridicule for things that happened in the past is as one of the players stated dis-respect not only for CBJ but also for the team.

yeah, it's a personal preference type thing. i think there are times where this approach is appropriate, and other times where it's ok to let your "team" know they kinda sucked. i've employed both methods on my own....with varying degrees of success....

in the end, i think in his mind if he used the word disappointed as an answer to that question, then that would be he, we, media are disappointed in the players. or that he, we, media should be disappointed in what's been done while he's been at UT.

neither of which he believes is true, so while as fan, or even a player can be, should be, disappointed in how the season ended, i don't have an issue with what the guy said if only for the fact that it's true and genuine to who he is. and you don't have to like that about him to understand that.

 

[jakez4ut]

I'm not sure we can really evaluate this offensive system. A big part of our production has been Dobbs scrambling. His elusiveness allowed him to make something out of nothing, gaining a lot of rushing yards that a QB like Dormady simply wouldn't get. The abilities of Dobbs and Kamara are very different from Dormady and Kelly. So the offense will be different.

JG is more of a scrambler-- like a FR Dobbs with a stronger arm. Using two QBs would be interesting, but IDT we'll go that way long. IMO, Butch is looking for one of them to claim the job and I think one will.

Dobbs made up for a lot of shortcomings in some other spots, but he also had some shortcomings of his own that didn't allow other things to always develop the way you might want during a play.

i think we'll obviously miss Dobbs...re watched the Missouri game last night....he's just good.

but, i think there's something to be said about having a qb that can run the play that's called, make the throw or read that's required, and allow the o line to get to their spots....we'll see how it plays out....but the offense may actually "look more reliable" with qd or jg under center, cause they may be able to string 1st downs together and not rely on the "spectacular broken play" or the 50/50 ball as "the offense". we were really good at both of those last year....i mean...really good. this offense i think, while having similar looks schematically, will be more methodical and deliberate in what it's doing.:thumbsup:

 

[LA Vol]

CBJ has his own style, and a lot of people don't like it. The only way to change the response is to change what causes it. Otherwise, you're going to have a predictable outcome. The pattern is clear by now.

Certain things are hot buttons with fans and the media. CBJ is the HC-- he can feel however he likes and say whatever he wants, but he knows how disappointed UT fans are-- and how critical the media is-- about the Vols not winning the SECE, not going to ATL and not playing in the Sugar Bowl. Last season was a gut punch to a lot of people. If CBJ's not disappointed, he's not disappointed, and if he's disappointed but doesn't want to acknowledge it, that's okay, too. But a whole lot of people aren't going to agree with him or his approach, and they're going to be vocal about it.

 

[LA Vol]

Dobbs made up for a lot of shortcomings in some other spots, but he also had some shortcomings of his own that didn't allow other things to always develop the way you might want during a play.

i think we'll obviously miss Dobbs...re watched the Missouri game last night....he's just good.

but, i think there's something to be said about having a qb that can run the play that's called, make the throw or read that's required, and allow the o line to get to their spots....we'll see how it plays out....but the offense may actually "look more reliable" with qd or jg under center, cause they may be able to string 1st downs together and not rely on the "spectacular broken play" or the 50/50 ball as "the offense". we were really good at both of those last year....i mean...really good. this offense i think, while having similar looks schematically, will be more methodical and deliberate in what it's doing.:thumbsup:

I agree. We really don't know how to evaluate the offense yet, because Dormady and/or JG bring different skillsets and styles. We'll miss Dobbs greatly, but our offense will adapt. Dobbs scrambled because he had to; it was effective-- sometimes even our best option-- so that became his MO. Early on, he had to overcome a porous OL, receivers running lazy routes and only one solid RB, so he relied on himself to get the yards. That became the engine of our offense.

I like our QBs and am looking forward to what they bring to the offense. Malone could have been a difference maker with Dormady's or JG's arm. Now it's up to JJ, Byrd and Smith.

 

[jakez4ut]

CBJ has his own style, and a lot of people don't like it. The only way to change the response is to change what causes it. Otherwise, you're going to have a predictable outcome. The pattern is clear by now.

Certain things are hot buttons with fans and the media. CBJ is the HC-- he can feel however he likes and say whatever he wants, but he knows how disappointed UT fans are-- and how critical the media is-- about the Vols not winning the SECE, not going to ATL and not playing in the Sugar Bowl. Last season was a gut punch to a lot of people. If CBJ's not disappointed, he's not disappointed, and if he's disappointed but doesn't want to acknowledge it, that's okay, too. But a whole lot of people aren't going to agree with him or his approach, and they're going to be vocal about it.

cost of doing business. he's a big boy, making big boy money, so at this point, i agree, it just is what it is. the only way the narrative gets changed is to do something results wise he hasn't done yet.

we'll see if that happens...but he has yet another opportunity to do it this season.

if he does, great.....that's what most of us want anyway.

if he doesn't, then this kind of resolves itself and we move on to the next experiment. nothing he says changes any of that.

 

[1chattyvols1]

I agree. I think some do not like this type of offense and thus try to place the blame on that side of the ball when in reality offense is not a problem.

Ironically, there was a time, a decade or so ago, where the D is what actually kept us in the games. But, the offense was so paltry that we won by luck. I remember the D being on the field 80% of the games.

 

[Wildasamink16]

:lolabove: :lolabove:

Blow a tuba !

 

[KBVol]

I'm sure Butch was disappointed but he can't say that publicly. It doesn't matter if you are disappointed, his team was 9-4. Get over it and look forward to 2017.

Sure he can, and he'd be much, much more respected if he did imo. It's not hard to say and he should say it as a way of defining the expectations that his fan base assumes he's shooting for. To say last season wasn't disappointing is just disingenuousness it, once again, makes him appear to be tone deaf and it opens him up to criticism again.

 

[KBVol]

Nothing wrong with that offensive system. They have racked up the yards. Imaging the yards they will get when a good online brings consistancy. Long drives that eat of the time of possession. Denfense has been the problem and we have invested heavily there the past two years.

Agree. I don't like the offensive system, but it simply was not the issue last year. An historically awful defense was.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Sure he can, and he'd be much, much more respected if he did imo. It's not hard to say and he should say it as a way of defining the expectations that his fan base assumes he's shooting for. To say last season wasn't disappointing is just disingenuousness it, once again, makes him appear to be tone deaf and it opens him up to criticism again.

KB, the media and fan base have painted Butch into a place where he's damned no matter what he says.

If he'd said he was disappointed in the 2016 season, people would (with reason) accuse him of throwing the players and his assistant coaches under the bus. Would clamor about how no leader should ever throw out the good of a season with the bad. Would insist that he should have clarified it by ___(fill in the blank: naming specific games ... naming specific performances ... giving in detail his every personal and professional fault)___.

Fact is, as a leader, I wouldn't have called the season a disappointment, either. Would have refused to. Because too many of our lads did too many good things at various times throughout the season to label their efforts that way. I'd have happily said that I was disappointed we didn't beat USCe and Vandy, that we left some of our biggest goals unaccomplished (which is pretty close to what he actually said himself), but would've refused to call the whole thing a disappointment.

*shrug* You clearly would have. So we see that aspect of Butch's leadership role a bit differently. No big, room to disagree.

 

[KBVol]

I've asked this question in this thread and have yet to see a direct response.

Had he gone with Vickers description, "It was disappointing" publically does that change anything?

I've seen several responses to why he didn't (even tho he essentially covered his tracks in short order directly after). And most of the reasons were silly at best.

I'm curious if those defending why he didn't would call him out considering.

Here's a direct response......absolutely, 100% yes!! Imho.

The fans were disappointed, the pundits were disappointed and now we've heard from one of his team's leaders that he was disappointed. Iirc, Dobbs made a similar comment after the season last year. Jones has made it a much bigger deal than it should've been. It is what it is, everybody saw it. Just state the obvious and move on rather than giving some BS answer and giving life to an issue that should've died pretty quickly.

 

[KBVol]

KB, the media and fan base have painted Butch into a place where he's damned no matter what he says.

If he'd said he was disappointed in the 2016 season, people would (with reason) accuse him of throwing the players and his assistant coaches under the bus. Would clamor about how no leader should ever throw out the good of a season with the bad. Would insist that he should have clarified it by ___(fill in the blank: naming specific games ... naming specific performances ... giving in detail his every personal and professional fault)___.

Fact is, as a leader, I wouldn't have called the season a disappointment, either. Would have refused to. Because too many of our lads did too many good things at various times throughout the season to label their efforts that way. I'd have happily said that I was disappointed we didn't beat USCe and Vandy, that we left some of our biggest goals unaccomplished (which is pretty close to what he actually said himself), but would've refused to call the whole thing a disappointment.

*shrug* You clearly would have. So we see that aspect of Butch's leadership role a bit differently. No big, room to disagree.

Respectfully disagree JP. Butch has painted Butch into a corner. I'm no fan of the media in general to be sure, but he's given enough mealy mouth answers that don't add up, that suspend common sense at this point, that now he's infinitely scrutinized much more than he would be had he just been up front and transparent.

Think about it.....would this thread even exist if Butch, like Vickers, had said "yes, since we didn't accomplish our goals last year, we were disappointed. Despite a lot of good things that team 120 accomplished, we didn't win the East and/or the SEC, so it was a disappointing season". I personally would've applauded him and had more respect for him had he just come out and said what everybody knows....the truth.

Also, he would've in no way been throwing his players and coaches under the bus imho. He would've been stepping up and taking responsibility for how the season ended as the leader of the program....which is what leaders do.

 

[pharmDvol11]

:lolabove: :lolabove:

Did it ever occur to you that Butch is trolling you and the media? He "could" be telling the team one thing and everybody else something else. And the team could be just telling us what is really going on. That would make more sense than this "alternate reality" theory.

 

[Smokey X]

Did it ever occur to you that Butch is trolling you and the media? He "could" be telling the team one thing and everybody else something else. And the team could be just telling us what is really going on. That would make more sense than this "alternate reality" theory.

I wonder if Azzani, Debord, Martinez, Mahoney, Szerszen and Stripling have the impression CBJ was disappointed?:mf_surrender:

 

[pharmDvol11]

I wonder if Azzani, Debord, Martinez, Mahoney, Szerszen and Stripling have the impression CBJ was disappointed?:mf_surrender:

Can't say I'm disappointed in their replacements 😉

 

[1chattyvols1]

Respectfully disagree JP. Butch has painted Butch into a corner. I'm no fan of the media in general to be sure, but he's given enough mealy mouth answers that don't add up, that suspend common sense at this point, that now he's infinitely scrutinized much more than he would be had he just been up front and transparent.

Think about it.....would this thread even exist if Butch, like Vickers, had said "yes, since we didn't accomplish our goals last year, we were disappointed. Despite a lot of good things that team 120 accomplished, we didn't win the East and/or the SEC, so it was a disappointing season". I personally would've applauded him and had more respect for him had he just come out and said what everybody knows....the truth.

Also, he would've in no way been throwing his players and coaches under the bus imho. He would've been stepping up and taking responsibility for how the season ended as the leader of the program....which is what leaders do.

There's a chart somewhere that details how to be champions of life while having a five star heart.... Among other things...

 

[VFL-82-JP]

stfu, troll.

Shoot, now you're going to accuse me of stalking you again. I'm really not, just keep finding you trolling in the threads I'm reading anyway.

 

[The Dog]

There's a chart somewhere that details how to be champions of life while having a five star heart.... Among other things...

Maybe, just maybe it was funny the first couple of times, but it has been over 6 months and it hasn't been funny for 5 months and 29 days. So, like JP told u, STFU

 

[1chattyvols1]

Maybe, just maybe it was funny the first couple of times, but it has been over 6 months and it hasn't been funny for 5 months and 29 days. So, like JP told u, STFU

Naw, it's still funny. Wasn't that funny six months ago, tho. But, if you think it was then, maybe you are the one that needs to re-evaluate your humor index.

 

[The Dog]

Naw, it's still funny. Wasn't that funny six months ago, tho. But, if you think it was then, maybe you are the one that needs to re-evaluate your humor index.

No, I didn't think it was funny when he said it. Now, the first couple of times someone made a joke using that phrase, I might have grinned a little. But, it got old fast and u using it in every thread that u post in, is not the least bit funny. U should work on some new material

 

[1chattyvols1]

No, I didn't think it was funny when he said it. Now, the first couple of times someone made a joke using that phrase, I might have grinned a little. But, it got old fast and u using it in every thread that u post in, is not the least bit funny. U should work on some new material

Maybe, you should do a better job of stalking because I'm not using it in every thread I'm posting nor am I obliged to it.

But, since you want to attack me over it, just remember that you are there, sitting behind a made up name, using abbreviations for cuss words and trying to be intimidating. That's very big of you.