Kirby Smart takes a jab at Butch Jones

[MWAVolfan]

And I agree with every bit of this. I think Jones has far exceeded my expectations when it comes to rebuilding the roster. Having said that I don't buy the injury argument for the Vandy loss. With the way he's recruited since he's been here we should be able to beat Vandy with more than half of our starters out. It comes down to development. Hopefully that will improve with the coaching changes. We'll see.

Why has he far exceeded your expectations when it comes to recruiting? Yeah sure Dooley left him nothing but that's a statement about Dooley. Jones is simply recruiting at the level commensurate to the university of Tennessee where as Dooley was recruiting at the level of northwestern. This is the problem I have. We see Jones as being better than expected just because our expectations were beaten down by Dooley.

 

[Nationdom]

We are way better than "marginally better".

Butch has done a great job in several important areas.

He has tripped over his "Johnson" a few times, especially last year and 2015.

He has made major changes in an attempt to fix major issues.

We have a new AD now. Who knows what to expect, but I would imagine he will handle the situation accordingly.

I'm sure he won't need your input.

Jones has done absolutely nothing more than any other mediocre coach could do at UT. It's now or never.

 

[05_never_again]

Why has he far exceeded your expectations when it comes to recruiting? Yeah sure Dooley left him nothing but that's a statement about Dooley. Jones is simply recruiting at the level commensurate to the university of Tennessee where as Dooley was recruiting at the level of northwestern. This is the problem I have. We see Jones as being better than expected just because our expectations were beaten down by Dooley.

Fulmer wasn't churning out consistent top 10 classes his last few years here either. Remember once Richt, Urban, Miles, Saban, etc. entered the conference they all started eating his lunch.

Butch is the best recruiter we've had at Tennessee since late 90s Fulmer; it's by far his best asset. He's mediocre at most other aspects of the job.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Fulmer wasn't churning out consistent top 10 classes his last few years here either. Remember once Richt, Urban, Miles, Saban, etc. entered the conference they all started eating his lunch.

Butch is the best recruiter we've had at Tennessee since late 90s Fulmer; it's by far his best asset. He's mediocre at most other aspects of the job.

I agree with all that. I just don't know why your expectation wouldn't be exactly what he is doing. That's all.

 

[KBVol]

And then our injuries piled up starting game 1. Here's you a news flash, just because someone named "Booger" says we will be 12-0 doesn't mean you should believe it. Way to many factors.

What injuries did we have coming out of game 1? Should be an awfully long list, no? I'll wait......

 

[MWAVolfan]

We are way better than "marginally better".

Butch has done a great job in several important areas.

He has tripped over his "Johnson" a few times, especially last year and 2015.

He has made major changes in an attempt to fix major issues.

We have a new AD now. Who knows what to expect, but I would imagine he will handle the situation accordingly.

I'm sure he won't need your input.

I don't see them as more than marginally better. Dooley had several games that he could have won that would have majorly changes the perception of him as a coach and made his records look just the same as Butch. Now Butch has also lost some games he should have won,true. I think Tennessee could have been much much better in the last 4 years with a few coaching decisions and strategies being different than they were. Butch had recruited well which is a good off the field accomplishment. And as far as making major changes to address major issues, all I can say is that I do not believe the issues stemmed from the coaches that are now no longer with the team.

 

[05_never_again]

I agree with all that. I just don't know why your expectation wouldn't be exactly what he is doing. That's all.

Because Tennessee has not recruited at that level in about 20 years, and that is when we were a national power and one of only two SEC schools that top recruits considered coming to in those days. He's been out-recruiting pretty much every other SEC school except Alabama since he got here - nobody could reasonably expect that after taking over a program that had previously been run by a washed up Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dooley and hadn't been nationally relevant in over a decade.

I expected better recruiting than Dooley obviously, but not multiple top 5/top 10 classes within a span of 4-5 years.

 

[MWAVolfan]

So, Georgia has higher standards than Tennessee?

Disappointing.

The difference being Kirby is being directly compared to Richt whereas Jones is being directly compared to Dooley.

Hardly a fair fight for Kirby IMO.

 

[give_him 6]

"I wonder if they have this one in Tennessee Orange."

 

[The Artful Dodger]

I've been saying this since last year. I fully believe that he has no problem with the level of performance we have seen from UT. In his mind they have won 4 straight bowl games (never mind they were all meaningless) and then there was some drivel about winning some number of games over the span of 2 years even though again it's a meaningless stat. To him losing to USCe and Candy were totally withing the level of expectation that UT fans should have. Even though we beat the tar out of those teams for decades.

This kind of crazy crap is once again due directly to Derek Dooley and his ineptitude. Butch Jones says "look how much better we are" "look how far the program had come". No, the program is only marginally better than the worst period in UT football history from 2008 to 2013. Once you take a step back from the orange kool-aid stand you can have the proper perspective on things.

Now, he has recruited really really well. I have no doubt players are bought in to whatever he's selling. He lead the horse to the water but he sucks at getting them to drink it.

How is 9-4 marginally better than 5-7? That's the problem. So many fans want to emphasize his weaknesses, while all but ignoring his strengths. IF Butch isn't the man to get UT over the final hump, then he has still brought the program light years past where we were after the 2012 season, and should be credited with that.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Because Tennessee has not recruited at that level in about 20 years, and that is when we were a national power and one of only two SEC schools that top recruits considered coming to in those days. He's been out-recruiting pretty much every other SEC school except Alabama since he got here - nobody could reasonably expect that after taking over a program that had previously been run by a washed up Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dooley and hadn't been nationally relevant in over a decade.

I expected better recruiting than Dooley obviously, but not multiple top 5/top 10 classes within a span of 4-5 years.

Cmon now. UT had a top 5 class in 2007 and 2005.thats 10 years not 20. What you could say is that Tennessee recruited at an elite level for 20 years and then had a sharp drop from 2008 to 2014. So we were down from our norm for about 6 years. 6 years which admittedly destroyed the program but in my opinion never "set the expectation" of where UT should be recruiting.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Severely disappointed or throwing dead wood off a sinking ship? Someone HAD to go after last year and it obviously wasn't going to be him. The notion that he is now "taking advice from others" is tantamount to admitting that you didn't actually know what you were doing in the first place. Bravo, I suppose, if he turns things around on the field. I just wish we hired someone who knew these things from day 1.

There are VERY FEW head coaches that know this upon entering a conference as tough as the SEC. Pretty much any coach is going to bring in "his" guys and try and do it "his" way, but very few can. Luckily, our coach isn't as stubborn as some and changed "his" guys out, for presumably better qualified employees.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Do you happen to know the average yards per completion before the receiver ran as compared to Dobbs? One thing about Dobbs numbers is that the offensive scheme usually resulted in very short completions out in the flat. I don't know if the same was true for UGA given that he was a freshman.

I don't know either, but it would be logical to assume that any coach would keep it simple for a Freshman, and Eason still only had a 55% completion percentage. My quote wasn't to tout Dobbs, but to point out that Eason isn't as impressive as a lot of talking heads would have you think.

 

[MWAVolfan]

How is 9-4 marginally better than 5-7? That's the problem. So many fans want to emphasize his weaknesses, while all but ignoring his strengths. IF Butch isn't the man to get UT over the final hump, then he has still brought the program light years past where we were after the 2012 season, and should be credited with that.

8 win regular season vs 5 win regular season. Yeah he won meaningless exhibition bowl games. I guess he should get credit for that. But I see 8 wins vs 5 wins over 4 years at the helm as marginal. You can say that the expectations from the media of how UT should do have increased a lot but not the actual performance. But your last sentence betrays your perspective and it is what I've been trying to dispute. Comparing him to what Dooley did isn't really doing it justice. That's like comparing our next president to Donald Trump. It don't really take a whole lot to be light years better than what we have now as a president.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I agree with Smart. They do suck. Butch was just being nice.

We are gonna take all the top Ga boys because they know Ga sucks as well. They live there.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I don't know either, but it would be logical to assume that any coach would keep it simple for a Freshman, and Eason still only had a 55% completion percentage. My quote wasn't to tout Dobbs, but to point out that Eason isn't as impressive as a lot of talking heads would have you think.

Yep. He needs to show more.

 

[05_never_again]

Cmon now. UT had a top 5 class in 2007 and 2005.thats 10 years not 20. What you could say is that Tennessee recruited at an elite level for 20 years and then had a sharp drop from 2008 to 2014. So we were down from our norm for about 6 years. 6 years which admittedly destroyed the program but in my opinion never "set the expectation" of where UT should be recruiting.

The expectation I had is somewhere between where vintage Fulmer recruited and where Dooley recruited. Fulmer was recruiting in an era where, for the most part, top national recruits went to Tennessee or Florida if they played in the SEC. Spurrier fought with FSU for State of Florida guys, while Fulmer got lots of guys from the states surrounding Tennessee (not much talent in Tennessee) and California.

The league got more competitive, Fulmer started getting his lunch eaten, and was fired. Then we endure Kiffin and Dooley and as a result start pulling in classes that are the 10th best in the SEC.

Enter Butch, who is a good recruiter but recruiting in a different environment than Fulmer was. He's got to go up against good recruiters at a multitude of other SEC schools that have inherent advantages over Tennessee. It is much easier to recruit at places like Georgia, Florida, Alabama, and LSU than Tennessee. Yet Tennessee has recruited better than all of those schools except Alabama over the last 4 or so years.

 

[Behr]

Jones has done absolutely nothing more than any other mediocre coach could do at UT. It's now or never.

Where did I say anything to the contrary?

Again I ask. Do some of you not even try?

 

[BearCat204]

I disagree. We have more wins, more all americans, more hof"s, more sec titles, better stadium,

How about in the last 30 years?

 

[MWAVolfan]

There are VERY FEW head coaches that know this upon entering a conference as tough as the SEC. Pretty much any coach is going to bring in "his" guys and try and do it "his" way, but very few can. Luckily, our coach isn't as stubborn as some and changed "his" guys out, for presumably better qualified employees.

Yep I agree that they will being in their guys and do it their way. Every coach does that. But there have been several coaches that brought their guys and their way into the SEC and totally changed the landscape of the conference. Five different SEC coaches have been to the national championship game since 2006. Butch's guys and his way however didn't or hasn't yet translated on the field.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Eason has Heisman Trophy-caliber arm talent; just not sure if he will ever be on a team good enough for him to actually win it. Eason only hit 55% of his passes but they had him chucking it downfield quite a bit.

I agree with you about Chaney. I don't really think he's all that good of an offensive coordinator.

Chucking it down field is not that dangerous of a pass. Especially for someone with Eason's arm strength. Short to intermediate "dump off" passes and long go routes are used with young QB's because of their low risk. It's the medium to deep passes that aren't just go pattern's, that are the more difficult to complete. The 55% could have been slightly affected by more deep balls, but I am far from the only one to point out that Eason, so far, isn't as accurate as many predicted.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

What injuries did we have coming out of game 1? Should be an awfully long list, no? I'll wait......

The Appy st. game can be chalked up to over-looking a competent opponent. But the fact remains that the team was 5-0 before the injuries. The team didn't start losing till injuries took their toll on a defense that was breaking in a new coordinator and scheme, in the first place.

 

[Behr]

I don't see them as more than marginally better. Dooley had several games that he could have won that would have majorly changes the perception of him as a coach and made his records look just the same as Butch. Now Butch has also lost some games he should have won,true. I think Tennessee could have been much much better in the last 4 years with a few coaching decisions and strategies being different than they were. Butch had recruited well which is a good off the field accomplishment. And as far as making major changes to address major issues, all I can say is that I do not believe the issues stemmed from the coaches that are now no longer with the team.

Lol, Butch had several games he could have won that would drastically change his perception.. neither did so there's that.

The rest is your opinion and nobody knows yet.

 

[WildTurkey]

Thanks for the quote. Butchna made a good point there.

The changes in the staff contradict what he said... which still begs the question of what he thought he was gaining by being less than genuine or by avoiding the word.

I agree it would be refreshing to hear some candidness from Jones. It may be he really has bought into the whole 'nothing but positive thoughts/words' mantra.

Could be that in his mind saying the word disappointment is unproductive.? Idk...just a thought.

The staff changes were a good start, but we'll really have a better idea of Jones's growth when we see the team play with a sense of urgency game 1, quarter 1.

I truly hope the media picks them 6th in the East and they carry a monster chip on their shoulders throughout the season. That might be the best recipe for success. Being picked 1st sure wasn't.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

8 win regular season vs 5 win regular season. Yeah he won meaningless exhibition bowl games. I guess he should get credit for that. But I see 8 wins vs 5 wins over 4 years at the helm as marginal. You can say that the expectations from the media of how UT should do have increased a lot but not the actual performance. But your last sentence betrays your perspective and it is what I've been trying to dispute. Comparing him to what Dooley did isn't really doing it justice. That's like comparing our next president to Donald Trump. It don't really take a whole lot to be light years better than what we have now as a president.

And yet you still describe that difference as marginal, and that is where I disagree with you. Butch's Tennessee is way more than marginally better than Dooley's Tennessee. Whether Butch makes the final jump into greatness does not change that.