Is Peyton The GOAT

#76
#76
508mikey said:
iirc Its more difficult to win a NC than a SB -- 1-2 losses in college can end the hopes in alot of cases --- also there is a thread like this in the NFL forum maybe this one needs merged to it
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That has more to do with how college football is set up than the NFL. When only 2 teams get to actually play for the NC, obviously that makes it a lot harder.

It has more to do with you're playing against much tougher competition in the NFL than college. That's why so many great college QBs don't do jack in the NFL.
 
#79
#79
Most Associated Press NFL MVP awards: 5 (2003, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2013)

Only 3 guys have 3 (Jim Brown, Unitas, Favre).

This is all you need to know.
 
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#80
#80
WiseOlVol said:
Most Associated Press NFL MVP awards: 5 (2003, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2013)

Only 3 guys have 3 (Jim Brown, Unitas, Favre).

This is all you need to know.
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Re Brady, it's telling that he's won 7 AFC CGs, 5 SBs and only 2 MVPs. The MVP is an individual award, not a team award. The GOAT is an individual.
 
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#83
#83
VolsSportsFan said:
So I guess you ignore Brady's 4 Super Bowl MVPs, the only player to do so?
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SB MVP is a fake award.
Only the winning team gets it. [one exception in 51 years]
QB gets it when the D actually wins the game...as is the case for New England.
And it's just one game.
 
#84
#84
WiseOlVol said:
SB MVP is a fake award.
Only the winning team gets it. [one exception in 51 years]
QB gets it when the D actually wins the game...as is the case for New England.
And it's just one game.
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Rofl....in other words, you only count sh** when it's good for Manning, ignore it when it doesn't.

Wise...you ain't.
 
#87
#87
VolsSportsFan said:
Rofl....in other words, you only count sh** when it's good for Manning, ignore it when it doesn't.

Wise...you ain't.
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Exhibit A is SB 51.
Brady takes a huge favorite into the game vs a horrible D, and gets behind 28-3.
You don't get points for putting out the fire you set.
 
#88
#88
Crew said:
.....lol. you say this as if Peyton wasn't carried by his defense for both SB wins.
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Peyton played with bad Ds all but two years. In SB 48, Denver had the 27th D. Gave up 21 right away. Ran it up to 44. Brady never had worse than a Top 10 D. And Belichick is the best HC in the NFL for 15 years.
 
#89
#89
99gator said:
In order to separate the very best, you use every piece of information you can to make a choice.

playoff accomplishments are one of them.

And Brady damn near owns every playoff record there is, not just the most rings
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And one could (soundly) argue that is a function of Brady playing on better overall teams, with a better all-around supporting cast, under arguably the greatest coach of all time. These factors not only gave him more playoff opportunities, but increased his chances of success. Still, Manning holds the edge in head to head postseason record over Brady 3-2, including a 3-1 edge in games with a trip to the SB on the line.
 
#91
#91
As an aside, if the opposition doesn't **** the bed in Brady's last two SB appearances, I think only the biggest Brady fanboys would be arguing he's had the better career than Manning. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I also personally think that SB wins are overvalued in the minds of many when comparing players. The team as a whole is incredibly important in winning a ring, and I don't think it makes sense to give it too much weight in a discussion of which player is better than the other.
 
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#92
#92
All thinks considered, PM a better QB.
Invented the modern passing game.
Set 2 dozen records in 2013, while carrying a bad D.
 
#93
#93
Diceman said:
And one could (soundly) argue that is a function of Brady playing on better overall teams, with a better all-around supporting cast, under arguably the greatest coach of all time. These factors not only gave him more playoff opportunities, but increased his chances of success. Still, Manning holds the edge in head to head postseason record over Brady 3-2, including a 3-1 edge in games with a trip to the SB on the line.
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That's cool.

I made the argument that his teammates are exactly why I would give the nod to Brady.

I, personally, think Brady has played with a bunch of turds. There isn't a QB who has every played the game (in the GOAT discussion) that has consistently played with the pile of trash that he has on the offensive side of the ball.

Randy Moss (briefly) and Gronk. Those are the only two dudes who have lined up with Brady that actually caused any concern for a defensive coordinator.

Furthermore, why are his teams better?

In Manning's career at Tennessee, were Florida's teams better? What do we judge that on? We judge that based on the fact that Florida won. If Tennessee won, we'd say Tennessee is better.

I don't see a damn thing special about the last 2 Patriot teams to win the Super Bowl. Absolutely nothing impressive about that roster.
 
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#94
#94
Diceman said:
As an aside, if the opposition doesn't **** the bed in Brady's last two SB appearances, I think only the biggest Brady fanboys would be arguing he's had the better career than Manning. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I also personally think that SB wins are overvalued in the minds of many when comparing players. The team as a whole is incredibly important in winning a ring, and I don't think it makes sense to give it too much weight in a discussion of which player is better than the other.
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A) But they won, so your what if is completely irrelevant.

B) I'm sure you describe the Colts' comeback over the Patriots in 2006 as the Pats "****ing the bed".
 
#95
#95
How much more dominant would Manning have been with Belecheat as HC?
 
#96
#96
99gator said:
That's cool.

I made the argument that his teammates are exactly why I would give the nod to Brady.

I, personally, think Brady has played with a bunch of turds. There isn't a QB who has every played the game (in the GOAT discussion) that has consistently played with the pile of trash that he has on the offensive side of the ball.

Randy Moss (briefly) and Gronk. Those are the only two dudes who have lined up with Brady that actually caused any concern for a defensive coordinator.

Furthermore, why are his teams better?

In Manning's career at Tennessee, were Florida's teams better? What do we judge that on? We judge that based on the fact that Florida won. If Tennessee won, we'd say Tennessee is better.

I don't see a damn thing special about the last 2 Patriot teams to win the Super Bowl. Absolutely nothing impressive about that roster.
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What made them better was they made fewer mistakes, were more opportunistic, ran the ball better and played better defense, while also executing an efficient passing game. Just look at the box scores for the Patriots' SB appearances and compare their rushing and defense totals to the Colts.
 
#97
#97
VolsSportsFan said:
Sure, and still not make the playoffs.

Also it helps when you intentionally suck for Luck.
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The only team ever in the history of the NFL to win 11 and not get into the playoffs.

And do you have any stats or facts to support your last statement? Becuase I'm not convinced that Jim Caldwell deliberately sabotaged his own coaching career.
 
#100
#100
chargervol said:
It's good for one thing, learning about posters.
Not who they pick but if they give an opinion/vote or state as fact because they've decided.

These are the same people who will tell you you're wrong about YOUR favorite restaurant. Lack of humility is most common amongst youth but it's by no means guaranteed to go away with age.
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But when I do - I have to remember it is only my opinion - therefore - I agree with you! Whoops that makes your opinion my opinion or my opinion yours!
 
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