Does John Currie have any ties to Bob Stoops...

#101
#101
volfan102455 said:
Whether the team wins or loses is always on the team. And to me team includes players and coaches.

When someone is trying to find one player, one coach, one thing to blame - they are playing the 'what if' game. In reality there is always multiple reasons why things happen in a game.

Unfortunately it always ends up that folks focus on the last thing ... the last chance that failed, the last tackle that wasn't made, the last call that did not work, etc. when in reality there were always many chances before that one that could have resulted with that last chance not being required.
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Amen, brother.
 
#103
#103
'Boro-vol said:
Yes...the unpaid student athlete, many of whom aren't able to legally buy a beer, should definitely hold the same responsibility as a team of highly paid professional mercenary coaches with decades of football experience between them. Makes perfect sense.

Just one question though....who, exactly, is responsible for choosing which players are on the field, and who is responsible for training them on what to do when they are there?
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Great points, 'Boro. Well stated and spot on.
 
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#105
#105
rockydoc said:
.....other than being an AD in same conference that Stoops coached in. Not that we are looking for a new Head coach. I understand that AD's always have a list of possible replacement coaches in their back pocket.....just in case.
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:eek:lol:Leave Oklahoma to come and play Bama Florida and the Dawgs every year and your reward if you win the East to get your azz kick again by bama in the SEC CHAMPIONSHIP:eek:lol:i bet he is on the phone now
:eek:lol:
 
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#106
#106
terrypedigo said:
:eek:lol:Leave Oklahoma to come and play Bama Florida and the Dawgs every year and your reward if you win the East to get your azz kick again by bama in the SEC CHAMPIONSHIP:eek:lol:i bet he is on the phone now
:eek:lol:
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Stoops and Oklahoma have won each of the last 4 games they've played vs an SEC team.....Auburn, Tennessee, Tennessee and Alabama
 
#108
#108
'Boro-vol said:
Yes...the unpaid student athlete, many of whom aren't able to legally buy a beer, should definitely hold the same responsibility as a team of highly paid professional mercenary coaches with decades of football experience between them. Makes perfect sense.

Just one question though....who, exactly, is responsible for choosing which players are on the field, and who is responsible for training them on what to do when they are there?
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Simplistic.

Yes, yes, command responsibility, "the buck stops here," the boss is responsible for everything that happens on his watch. Got it.

But that's not how you learn, and it's not how you get better.

US Army has hot washes after every major training event. The most formal ones are called AARs (after action reviews) and have evaluators and even referees. And the commander of the unit is just as open to criticism as anyone on his team.

But you don't get better by taking the whole laundry list of "could've done better" notes and saying, "well, it's all on the commander. I declare this hot wash over."

No, you isolate, event by event, and action by action, how the team could've done better. Sometimes the finger gets pointed at the boss. Sometimes at the second in command. Sometimes at subordinate leaders. Sometimes at Scooby Doo in the ranks.

The point is, you have the mental rigor to figure out where it really went wrong, so you can fix it and be better next time.

As fans, we're just attempting to do that from afar. With our imperfect knowledge, our gaps in understanding, we're just doing a hot wash.

So it's wayyyyy too simplistic to simply say, "it's all on the head coach, everything comes down to him anyway." True, sure, but way simplistic.

'Boro-vol said:
Thanks. I'm sure many will disagree.
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There, you're right.
 
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#113
#113
VFL-82-JP said:
Simplistic.

Yes, yes, command responsibility, "the buck stops here," the boss is responsible for everything that happens on his watch. Got it.

But that's not how you learn, and it's not how you get better.

US Army has hot washes after every major training event. The most formal ones are called AARs (after action reviews) and have evaluators and even referees. And the commander of the unit is just as open to criticism as anyone on his team.

But you don't get better by taking the whole laundry list of "could've done better" notes and saying, "well, it's all on the commander. I declare this hot wash over."

No, you isolate, event by event, and action by action, how the team could've done better. Sometimes the finger gets pointed at the boss. Sometimes at the second in command. Sometimes at subordinate leaders. Sometimes at Scooby Doo in the ranks.

The point is, you have the mental rigor to figure out where it really went wrong, so you can fix it and be better next time.

As fans, we're just attempting to do that from afar. With our imperfect knowledge, our gaps in understanding, we're just doing a hot wash.

So it's wayyyyy too simplistic to simply say, "it's all on the head coach, everything comes down to him anyway." True, sure, but way simplistic.



There, you're right.
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All the attention you're showering me with is flattering. Will we be seeing a lot of each other?
 
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#114
#114
peppervol said:
Sorry, 82. I didn't read it that way.... No big deal.
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Yep, picking one or two of those 14 plays and declaring it/them THE reason we lost the Oklahoma game is more about the person who picked than the team. It says, loud and clear, that the person who picked it just wants to focus on that aspect.

For instance, a couple of the 14 plays were dumb penalties. The one I recall off the top of my head was Foreman (or Moseley? can't remember which) interfering with the OK receiver in the end zone. If a person isolated on those penalty plays, just so they could say, "see, it was a lack of discipline that cost us the game," then that would reveal more about that person's angle than it would about the game. We already knew a couple of dumb penalties contributed to the loss...what we learned was that person cares most about discipline.

Same if you just focused on bad tackling (really atrociously bad tackling) in the fourth quarter on a couple of Mayfield 4th-down scrambles for a 1st down. You say THEY are the reason for the loss, and I know you're just focused on the fundamentals of tackling and/or conditioning (players getting tired by the 4th qtr, playing significantly less well).

So if you isolate on just the two plays that involved key coaching decisions, that tells me you're focused on the coaches more than the team. I don't learn anything new about the game, just about you, just that's where you want to affix the blame.

*shrug* I prefer to see all the details, all the pieces, each in their own right. Tells me what to look for in the next game, and the game after that.

That game was a team loss...fourteen ways a team loss. That's how I see it.
 
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#116
#116
VFL-82-JP said:
Yep, picking one or two of those 14 plays and declaring it/them THE reason we lost the Oklahoma game is more about the person who picked than the team. It says, loud and clear, that the person who picked it just wants to focus on that aspect.

For instance, a couple of the 14 plays were dumb penalties. The one I recall off the top of my head was Foreman (or Moseley? can't remember which) interfering with the OK receiver in the end zone. If a person isolated on those penalty plays, just so they could say, "see, it was a lack of discipline that cost us the game," then that would reveal more about that person's angle than it would about the game. We already knew a couple of dumb penalties contributed to the loss...what we learned was that person cares most about discipline.

Same if you just focused on bad tackling (really atrociously bad tackling) in the fourth quarter on a couple of Mayfield 4th-down scrambles for a 1st down. You say THEY are the reason for the loss, and I know you're just focused on the fundamentals of tackling and/or conditioning (players getting tired by the 4th qtr, playing significantly less well).

So if you isolate on just the two plays that involved key coaching decisions, that tells me you're focused on the coaches more than the team. I don't learn anything new about the game, just about you, just that's where you want to affix the blame.

*shrug* I prefer to see all the details, all the pieces, each in their own right. Tells me what to look for in the next game, and the game after that.

That game was a team loss...fourteen ways a team loss. That's how I see it.
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Fair enough. I'm not trying to blame anyone. That decision cost us the game and I said it would the moment Butch trotted the field goal team on the field. Frankly, that call ranks as the worst decision he made all last season, IMHO. That being said, I am totally in CBJ's corner and back him 100% as our HC. Really hoping " He da man!" GO VOLS!!!!
 
#120
#120
81Orange said:
There are going to be a lot of unhappy fans on the board because the expectations are way higher than any coach can meet. We could hire Nick tomorrow and not meet these expectations. Imagine you hire him, we don't have the talent and have a 9 win season. First thing you hear is "He's no better than Butch."
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Problem now is we have a coach who makes 7 win seasons out of nine win rosters. I could live with someone who can win the games he's supposed to win for a few seasons as an intermediate step between where we are and championship level.
 
#121
#121
VFL-82-JP said:
You need to rewatch that game. Fourteen different plays that, if they'd gone just a little different, would've directly resulted in a Vols victory. Fourteen chances. Only one needed to go different.

Twelve of the fourteen were poor execution by specific players (or in a few cases, several defensive players missing tackles one after the other after the other). Only two of the fourteen were coaching decisions.

Every game is a combination of planning/coaching and execution/playing. Every win and every loss comes from a mix of both.

That game, in particular, was heavy on the lack of crisp execution in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

That one wasn't on Butch (neither Butch alone, nor Butch predominantly), not in my book. It was on the team.
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it looked a lot like we went conservative in the second half. Nothing is on Butch in your book. Hope you have fun rooting for him at southeast Missouri state in a couple of years.
 
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#122
#122
VolunteerHillbilly said:
it looked a lot like we went conservative in the second half. Nothing is on Butch in your book. Hope you have fun rooting for him at southeast Missouri state in a couple of years.
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Not true at all.

I've criticized Butch when he earned criticism, particularly in three areas:

-- Game day decision-making
-- Public speaking (foot in mouth disease)
-- Player development

All you have to do is look at my post history to confirm that.

We should all be balanced enough in our view of Butch (and the other coaches, the players, the program, the university) to offer criticism when warranted, and support the rest of the time. That's why we're called "fans" and not "judges" or "observers" ... we don't ALWAYS have to be unbiased. We are, in fact, free to be as biased and rah-rah as we like while (hopefully) remaining reasonable. You know: fans.
 
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#123
#123
ajvol01 said:
How many back-to-back games vs SEC opponents?
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And that means what? All he can do is play em when they're on the schedule, and he's won the last 4. Of course, who could've expected him to beat South Carolina, Kentucky, Missouri and Vandy all in a row last year....way too much to ask.
 
#124
#124
VFL-82-JP said:
Not true at all.

I've criticized Butch when he earned criticism, particularly in three areas:

-- Game day decision-making
-- Public speaking (foot in mouth disease)
-- Player development

All you have to do is look at my post history to confirm that.

We should all be balanced enough in our view of Butch (and the other coaches, the players, the program, the university) to offer criticism when warranted, and support the rest of the time. That's why we're called "fans" and not "judges" or "observers" ... we don't ALWAYS have to be unbiased. We are, in fact, free to be as biased and rah-rah as we like while (hopefully) remaining reasonable. You know: fans.
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I apologize if I was wrong in my characterization of your posting history concerning Jones.
 
#125
#125
KBVol said:
And that means what? All he can do is play em when they're on the schedule, and he's won the last 4. Of course, who could've expected him to beat South Carolina, Kentucky, Missouri and Vandy all in a row last year....way too much to ask.
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It means beating SEC teams in non-conference play is not indicative that Oklahoma could've won the SEC East, SEC West or SEC Championship.
 
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