Lebron/Jordan

#176
#176
All I know is GP's team is going to wreck the Big 3 league...Rashard Lewis, White Chocolate, Kwame, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf...would firmly put GP in the GOAT convo IMO
 
#177
#177
05_never_again said:
That's a totally fair point. It is hard to overstate how bad he has been as an executive.

His on-the-floor basketball IQ was one of the best ever, but apparently that has not translated to the front office whatsoever.
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Well it's 2 different kinds of basketball IQ's for one, his GM work has nothing to do with his on court IQ.
 
#178
#178
BadJerry20 said:
All I know is GP's team is going to wreck the Big 3 league...Rashard Lewis, White Chocolate, Kwame, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf...would firmly put GP in the GOAT convo IMO
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Just looked up the teams and I think Killer 3s are going to be good as well.

Chauncey Billups
Stephen Jackson
Reggie Evans
Larry Hughes
Brian Cook
 
#179
#179
A lot of great players with brilliant on court minds fail miserably as executives. It's very common throughout sports. The two things are completely separate of one another.
 
#180
#180
volfanbill said:
A lot of great players with brilliant on court minds fail miserably as executives. It's very common throughout sports. The two things are completely separate of one another.
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No, they are not completely separate but they are also not the same thing.
 
#183
#183
BadJerry20 said:
Well it's 2 different kinds of basketball IQ's for one, his GM work has nothing to do with his on court IQ.
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But you would think, given his basketball IQ and experience in the league, that he would be able to identify certain qualities in players and construct a balanced team based around guys with said qualities.

The fact that he has totally failed at that is a bit surprising. You think he'd be at least halfway decent. They are two separate but related skill sets.
 
#184
#184
05_never_again said:
But you would think, given his basketball IQ and experience in the league, that he would be able to identify certain qualities in players and construct a balanced team based around guys with said qualities.

The fact that he has totally failed at that is a bit surprising. You think he'd be at least halfway decent. They are two separate but related skill sets.
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A lot of the megastars fail. I don't know why people find it surprising anymore when they do
 
#186
#186
05_never_again said:
But you would think, given his basketball IQ and experience in the league, that he would be able to identify certain qualities in players and construct a balanced team based around guys with said qualities.

The fact that he has totally failed at that is a bit surprising. You think he'd be at least halfway decent. They are two separate but related skill sets.
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I'll give you it being a little surprising, but there are good GMs that (I'm sure) couldn't properly run the triangle, understand positioning or how to beat a man to a spot, or how to properly run a pick and roll. MJ failing as a GM in no way has a negative effect on his on court IQ. FWIW I gave LBJ the slight advantage in IQ.
 
#188
#188
n_huffhines said:
So you're saying playing experience does not translate one bit to the front office?
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From my 30 plus years of watching sports, the truly elite simply can't grasp that they possessed a skill unattainable by 99% of other athletes.

Chris Carter is my best example. Listening to him talk about breaking down players is mind numbing. He thinks every receiver can be as great as he was. He had a natural ability that most don't have and he can't figure that out.
 
#189
#189
MJ drafted Adam Morrison as a lottery pick. Let's just put his GM skills to bed now.
 
#190
#190
volfanbill said:
From my 30 plus years of watching sports, the truly elite simply can't grasp that they possessed a skill unattainable by 99% of other athletes.

Chris Carter is my best example. Listening to him talk about breaking down players is mind numbing. He thinks every receiver can be as great as he was. He had a natural ability that most don't have and he can't figure that out.
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I agree that their experience doesn't necessarily translate, but the idea that it doesn't translate at all and is "completely separate" seems crazy to me.
 
#191
#191
volfanbill said:
From my 30 plus years of watching sports, the truly elite simply can't grasp that they possessed a skill unattainable by 99% of other athletes.

Chris Carter is my best example. Listening to him talk about breaking down players is mind numbing. He thinks every receiver can be as great as he was. He had a natural ability that most don't have and he can't figure that out.
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I would think that most WRs aren't going to be good at breaking down the game. That is, relatively speaking, a simple position to play, and is heavily dependent on other people doing their job well (offensive line and QB) for that person to do well.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a good NFL QB that was terrible at a front office job, assuming they wanted the job. Wouldn't you be surprised if, say, Peyton took a front office job and was terrible at it? That's kind of how Jordan played basketball. Everything ran through him, he knew what everyone else on the floor was doing, and he made teammates better.
 
#193
#193
So if LBJ becomes a GM one day and fails, you will question his basketball (court) IQ? Surely you see how silly this stance is.
 
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#194
#194
05_never_again said:
Jordan was clutch, but what makes him "the greatest" in people's minds is his marketability and not as much the player he was. Nike still puts his logo, and not their own, on a lot of their basketball gear. Think about that. Jordan starred in a hit movie about basketball where he played with on a team with the Looney Tunes. Is LeBron ever going to reach that level? I don't think he has or he will, but LeBron could be statistically a more impressive player than Jordan and people would still think of Jordan as the greatest.

LeBron is a very marketable figure, but he's not even close to being as marketable as Jordan. LeBron, at times, comes off as an aloof, sensitive, overgrown child. Jordan never came off like that; quite the opposite. LeBron's legion of haters will also say he's arrogant, which is totally accurate, but Jordan is quite possibly one of the most arrogant people to ever live and nobody holds that against him. It's the petulant, childish, passive-aggressiveness that turns people off about him.
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Agree. I think what turned many people off Lebron was the way he handled the situation when he first left the Cavaliers. That seemed like self-aggrandizement. I haven't really seen him the same since then. I don't question he has amazing basketball skills, probably better than Jordan, although they are slightly different players.
 
#195
#195
BadJerry20 said:
So if LBJ becomes a GM one day and fails, you will question his basketball (court) IQ? Surely you see how silly this stance is.
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It's a knock but it's not the be all end all.

To me, easily the biggest knock on MJ is what he did with the Wizards. MJ knew how to be MJ but he didn't know how to adapt when he wasn't MJ anymore.
 
#196
#196
n_huffhines said:
It's a knock but it's not the be all end all.

To me, easily the biggest knock on MJ is what he did with the Wizards. MJ knew how to be MJ but he didn't know how to adapt when he wasn't MJ anymore.
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Yeah, LeBron does seem willing to eventually step aside for Kyrie in a way that Jordan/Kobe probably never would
 
#197
#197
NVM you Fluffers will make the dumbest arguments I've ever seen in my life.
 
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#198
#198
BadJerry20 said:
That's dumb as hell, "if you fail as a GM it's a knock on your basketball (playing) IQ"

And if the biggest knock you have is a 38-39 year old 3 years removed from basketball, not changing his game...then I really have no more words.
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Understanding personnel is part of basketball IQ. If you have demonstrated that you don't make good personnel decisions, that is a legitimate knock on your IQ.

All he had to do was shoot less. It's not like I'm saying he needed to move from catcher to 3rd base.
 
#199
#199
n_huffhines said:
Understanding personnel is part of basketball IQ. If you have demonstrated that you don't make good personnel decisions, that is a legitimate knock on your IQ.

All he had to do was shoot less. It's not like I'm saying he needed to move from catcher to 3rd base.
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We are talking about playing IQ, if Magic fails in the front office that doesn't suddenly make his playing IQ worse or call it into question. And before you go the "I'm talking about IQ in general" route. No, we were discussing their skills in relation to each other as players.
 
#200
#200
So you are saying that an understanding of personnel and roles doesn't factor into "playing IQ"?
 
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