Serious ? about IF Butch were fired.

[BigOrangeMojo]

How do you think Spurrior of the 90's at Florida would do against Saban at Alabama?

Here's a rundown of accomplished SEC coaches and what happened when dealing with Bama Saban

Fulmer - Fired
Richt - Fired
Spurrier - Quit
Urban - Got blown out, had "health issues", quit, came back, got blown out, quit again, moved to easier conference
Tuberville - Fired (Included him due to undefeated season pre Saban)
Chizik - Won Natty then got fired 2 blowouts later
Miles - Fired

I think 90s Spurrier (much like Freeze) would have given Saban some fits but after a couple of years, Saban would have figured him out. By the end of 2001, Fulmer had solved the Spurrier riddle at UF.

 

[BeecherVol]

Yes, Saban is a really good coach but not sure he is much better than a lot of coaches. Did he dominate everywhere he's been? NO! He is a really good coach at a school that was known for being a dominate football powerhouse. The combination has allowed him to be ultra successful.

Bama hadn't dominate for over a decade when he got there.

You could pick several schools where he would have the same success. Just in the conference.

He's just better than everybody else.

 

[KBVol]

And it was the dumbest decision ever made...we are only now climbing out of that abyss.

The "abyss" we're climbing out of wasn't of Fulmer's doing. His was a drop off, a downturn.

The "abyss" you're referring to was the result of the Dooley era after which the roster was bad/without depth, recruiting relationships were badly damaged, the mood/feelings around the program were borderline depressing and desperate, APR scores were nearly catastrophic and the 3 year run gave us a sub-.500 record.

 

[BeecherVol]

Here's a rundown of accomplished SEC coaches and what happened when dealing with Bama Saban

Fulmer - Fired
Richt - Fired
Spurrier - Quit
Urban - Got blown out, had "health issues", quit, came back, got blown out, quit again, moved to easier conference
Tuberville - Fired (Included him due to undefeated season pre Saban)
Chizik - Won Natty then got fired 2 blowouts later
Miles - Fired

I think 90s Spurrier (much like Freeze) would have given Saban some fits but after a couple of years, Saban would have figured him out. By the end of 2001, Fulmer had solved the Spurrier riddle at UF.

Spurrier much like Freeze?

Urban choosing a easier path to the top is easy to agree with.

Probably putting a little too much weight on Saban for all of those situations. All of those guys played against and lost to each other. Most of them too much at the end of their run.

 

[KBVol]

Here's a rundown of accomplished SEC coaches and what happened when dealing with Bama Saban

Fulmer - Fired
Richt - Fired
Spurrier - Quit
Urban - Got blown out, had "health issues", quit, came back, got blown out, quit again, moved to easier conference
Tuberville - Fired (Included him due to undefeated season pre Saban)
Chizik - Won Natty then got fired 2 blowouts later
Miles - Fired

I think 90s Spurrier (much like Freeze) would have given Saban some fits but after a couple of years, Saban would have figured him out. By the end of 2001, Fulmer had solved the Spurrier riddle at UF.

He did? Fulmer "solved" Spurrier by 2001? Why? Because he won one game by 2 points? Leading up to the 2001 game, we had lost 7 of the last 8 to Spurrier.

 

[BeardedVol]

Here's a rundown of accomplished SEC coaches and what happened when dealing with Bama Saban

Fulmer - Fired
Richt - Fired
Spurrier - Quit
Urban - Got blown out, had "health issues", quit, came back, got blown out, quit again, moved to easier conference
Tuberville - Fired (Included him due to undefeated season pre Saban)
Chizik - Won Natty then got fired 2 blowouts later
Miles - Fired

I think 90s Spurrier (much like Freeze) would have given Saban some fits but after a couple of years, Saban would have figured him out. By the end of 2001, Fulmer had solved the Spurrier riddle at UF.

Saban had nothing to do with Fulmer's firing, as Saban was only in his secod year when Fulmer was let go. Had nothing to do with Richt's firing either. During the time Saban has been a Alabama, Richt only won the SECe 3 times. Losing to Butch Jones had more impact on Richt's firing than Saban's success

 

[BeecherVol]

He did? Fulmer "solved" Spurrier by 2001? Why? Because he won one game by 2 points? Leading up to the 2001 game, we had lost 7 of the last 8 to Spurrier.

Good point.

What influence Saban had on coaches being fired come more from the west, not the east.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Spurrier much like Freeze?

Urban choosing a easier path to the top is easy to agree with.

Probably putting a little too much weight on Saban for all of those situations. All of those guys played against and lost to each other. Most of them too much at the end of their run.

Although a cheater, Hugh Freeze is a good offensive mind that has given Bama fits. I think the 90s Spurrier would have given Bama Saban fits at first. These Bama teams are better than the 90s UF teams. I think Spurrier would have 2-3 competitive games with Saban before Saban owned the series.

My list shows exactly why Saban is much better than the Bear. Saban vanquished his foes. The Bear had to wait until Neyland retired.

 

[Jaws]

This is what I'm afraid of. Whether Butch is the answer or not, I'm afraid our program will be set back a couple of years due to not spending good money on a proven coach. They'll settle for someone similar to Butch that'll produce the same results we already have.

It's basically a lose situation either way.

Can't it already be said that UT is in the midst of this cycle? Kiffin/Dooley/Butch, all mid-tier coaches, certainly don't fit the criteria as "proven" winners. So the program is sorta stuck at the moment.

 

[Flipdaddy]

Every year has been a slight improvement under Butch. If he doesn't show improvement this year then that's a problem. As to what would get him fired...I just don't no.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

He did? Fulmer "solved" Spurrier by 2001? Why? Because he won one game by 2 points? Leading up to the 2001 game, we had lost 7 of the last 8 to Spurrier.

In 1998, UT won
In 1999, UF won by 2 at the Swamp
In 2000, UF won due to an egregious call. Gaffney did not catch that ball.
In 2001, UT won at the Swamp.

In the last 4 games, the two teams were pretty much even (UT would have gone 3-1 if not for a blown call). UF only scored 30 once in those 4 games and that was due to a late TD. Fulmer/Chavis had solved the UF offense by 2001.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Saban had nothing to do with Fulmer's firing, as Saban was only in his secod year when Fulmer was let go. Had nothing to do with Richt's firing either. During the time Saban has been a Alabama, Richt only won the SECe 3 times. Losing to Butch Jones had more impact on Richt's firing than Saban's success

Some people may say the beginning of the end for Fulmer was LSU in 2001 (I disagree with that). Fulmer wasn't fired just due to Saban but Bama's 2008 turnaround didn't help matters especially after beating Fulmer in 2007.

The UGA fans were upset that Richt choked a game against Saban, couldn't win the SEC against Bama, and got blown out at home against Bama. The fact that UGA was so far away from Bama led to his firing even with a 9-3 record.

 

[BeecherVol]

Although a cheater, Hugh Freeze is a good offensive mind that has given Bama fits. I think the 90s Spurrier would have given Bama Saban fits at first. These Bama teams are better than the 90s UF teams. I think Spurrier would have 2-3 competitive games with Saban before Saban owned the series.

My list shows exactly why Saban is much better than the Bear. Saban vanquished his foes. The Bear had to wait until Neyland retired.

Spurriers teams at UF were better than anything Freeze has fielded. Freeze is a solid football coach that is as dirty as they come.

I think what Saban has done in a decade at Bama is more impressive than Bryant's career and that probably wont change in the near future. He will probably widen that gap.

Don't agree with that list outside a couple names. Most of those coaches were having issues outside of Saban so its hard to give him all of that credit.

 

[BeecherVol]

Some people may say the beginning of the end for Fulmer was LSU in 2001 (I disagree with that). Fulmer wasn't fired just due to Saban but Bama's 2008 turnaround didn't help matters especially after beating Fulmer in 2007.

The UGA fans were upset that Richt choked a game against Saban, couldn't win the SEC against Bama, and got blown out at home against Bama. The fact that UGA was so far away from Bama led to his firing even with a 9-3 record.

Saban vanquishing coaches may have confused some a bit.

Fulmer was sliding before Saban was hired. Meyer had as much if not more to do with Phil's problems at the very end if you re gonna try and attach it to another coach.

UGA fans were all over Richt well before last year or even his 12'? loss in Atl where they played over their heads against a better team.
Richt was similar to Fulmer except his best run was really early and he slowly slide back.

Neither of those 2 make sense.

 

[BeecherVol]

Id buy Miles and Meyer.

And oddly enough Meyer moreso than even Miles.

It was pretty evident why he left after he landed at OSU.

Miles was 17-8 his last 2 full seasons (19-10) if you count the season he left and that was before the Bama game.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Id buy Miles and Meyer.

And oddly enough Meyer moreso than even Miles.

It was pretty evident why he left after he landed at OSU.

Miles was 17-8 his last 2 full seasons (19-10) if you count the season he left and that was before the Bama game.

I'll admit you were right about Fulmer. I think Saban played a role but Urban played a much larger role.

I think Tuberville, Chizik, Meyer, and Miles were all because of Saban. I think Spurrier and Richt had multiple vanquishers (Butch being included). I think Spurrier quit because of how far he was behind Bama and how far he had fallen behind Butch/UT in the East. I think UGA not being anywhere near Bama's league (especially with the home blowout loss) did Richt in more than anything else. Butch just put the final nail in that coffin in 2015.

 

[DaddyChad]

Yes, Saban is a really good coach but not sure he is much better than a lot of coaches. Did he dominate everywhere he's been? NO! He is a really good coach at a school that was known for being a dominate football powerhouse. The combination has allowed him to be ultra successful.

He won a national title at LSU before leaving there. He's been dominant most everywhere he has been in college. Idk who you would say is as consistent as Saban currently.

 

[DaddyChad]

I think there's a large enough gap between Saban and Jones that if Jones had a bad season, UT could fire Jones and get an upgrade. They'll have to pay for it but they could get an upgrade.

A better (but not elite) coach may not be able to win the SEC if Saban still has Alabama rolling. They could win the SEC east, beat Will Muschamp, consistently beat Vandy, etc... without beating Alabama. There's lots of room for improvement.

I like Butch so I'd much prefer him just to have a good year this year and keep the recruiting rolling. I'm even somewhat optimistic that will happen. If it doesn't though, UT shouldn't let the fact that Saban is dominating the league prevent them from looking for an upgrade.

I don't necessarily disagree that Tennessee could get a better coach. That said I don't feel they will spend the cash to get a sure thing and even if they do pony up that cash is it worth it really in the current landscape? If you're not going to win the sec and compete in huge bowl games going forwards idk that you justify the risk especially with Butch stocking the cupboard with talent and doing fairly well. JMO

 

[BeecherVol]

I'll admit you were right about Fulmer. I think Saban played a role but Urban played a much larger role.

I think Tuberville, Chizik, Meyer, and Miles were all because of Saban. I think Spurrier and Richt had multiple vanquishers (Butch being included). I think Spurrier quit because of how far he was behind Bama and how far he had fallen behind Butch/UT in the East. I think UGA not being anywhere near Bama's league (especially with the home blowout loss) did Richt in more than anything else. Butch just put the final nail in that coffin in 2015.

Chizik was 11-14 his last 2 seasons at AU. 3-9 the year he was fired. He was losing to anyone with a pulse his last year.

Tuberville followed a good 2 or 3 year run with 14-11 over the last 2.

Spurrier was 70+ years old and chose golf over the fight to keep SC relevant which was some of his best work.

I ll stick with Meyer, and to a lesser degree Miles.

 

[LWSVOL]

clarity

Saban vanquishing coaches may have confused some a bit.

Fulmer was sliding before Saban was hired. Meyer had as much if not more to do with Phil's problems at the very end if you re gonna try and attach it to another coach.

UGA fans were all over Richt well before last year or even his 12'? loss in Atl where they played over their heads against a better team.
Richt was similar to Fulmer except his best run was really early and he slowly slide back.

Neither of those 2 make sense.

Fulmer was fired because Hamilton had Kiffin locked up and sold the boosters that Kif would come in and put Tennessee where USC was at. He sold them Kif and his all star staff including his Dad. He was granted the power to make move and told if it failed it would cost him.

If he had not already had Kiffin in the bag he would not have sold it at that time. Fulmer would have won out in November and put UT in a bowl and continued on coaching.

that is the only reason it was able to happen in 2008

 

[BeecherVol]

clarity

Fulmer was fired because Hamilton had Kiffin locked up and sold the boosters that Kif would come in and put Tennessee where USC was at. He sold them Kif and his all star staff including his Dad. He was granted the power to make move and told if it failed it would cost him.

If he had not already had Kiffin in the bag he would not have sold it at that time. Fulmer would have won out in November and put UT in a bowl and continued on coaching.

that is the only reason it was able to happen in 2008

Don't disagree with what was going on with Hamilton. But the only way that gets enough backing is if Fulmer is going the wrong way.

Fulmer obliged, and Hamilton sold his vision.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Justin Fuente

Another, thank you.


However, I haven't seen that proven winner in the SEC guy yet.

 

[BeecherVol]

Another, thank you.


However, I haven't seen that proven winner in the SEC guy yet.

Oddly enough

 

[KBVol]

In 1998, UT won
In 1999, UF won by 2 at the Swamp
In 2000, UF won due to an egregious call. Gaffney did not catch that ball.
In 2001, UT won at the Swamp.

In the last 4 games, the two teams were pretty much even (UT would have gone 3-1 if not for a blown call). UF only scored 30 once in those 4 games and that was due to a late TD. Fulmer/Chavis had solved the UF offense by 2001.

Florida was absolutely gonna win the 2000 game. The egregious call happened on 2nd down.....after UF had just walked down the field 90 yards or so for the winning score. There's little to no doubt that they would've scored on 3rd or 4th down.

Also, our 2 point wins counted/had more weight than their 2 point wins? You either win or lose. We rarely were blown out during all our losses to Florida since the mid 70s....average margin of loss was less than 10 points per game iirc, by they still "owned us".

And again, prior to the great 2001 win at Gainesville, we had lost 7 of 8 to Florida. I guess you can say we had Spurrier figured out a bit, but we were still losing to Florida.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

clarity

Fulmer was fired because Hamilton had Kiffin locked up and sold the boosters that Kif would come in and put Tennessee where USC was at. He sold them Kif and his all star staff including his Dad. He was granted the power to make move and told if it failed it would cost him.

If he had not already had Kiffin in the bag he would not have sold it at that time. Fulmer would have won out in November and put UT in a bowl and continued on coaching.

that is the only reason it was able to happen in 2008

Yeah, but tennessee fans including myself didn't want "win out in November" to chump teams just to make it to some lower tiered bowl! As long as Fulmer was here that's what was going to happen!

Not much different than now! Thanks to the administrators!