Who thinks Canales is a "C" hire now?

#101
#101
Patrick Brown

Tennessee's hire of Mike Canales as quarterbacks coach was met with plenty of eye rolls, head shakes and angry message board posts, but the man certainly changed some minds with the recruiting result he nabbed on Friday when Adrian Martinez committed to the Vols.

Canales, whose nickname 'Chico' was given to him by his grandmother who believed his long hair resembled Freddie Prinze in the sitcom "Chico and the Man," was making a positive impact for the Vols months before his big recruiting victory.

Tennessee's quarterbacks almost immediately took to him after his arrival, and there's improved unity at the position despite the competition this offseason.

Prior to spring practice Canales put on what he called "Quarterback School" that focused on any and every aspect of the position. One of the topics was the magnitude of the position and the leadership and preparation it requires. Canales and the players studied how Peyton Manning and Joshua Dobbs handled their business in the brightest of spotlights and became incredible leaders.

The presence of an experienced coach for the quarterbacks was easily the biggest difference I saw on Haslam Field during spring practice. Canales was detailed-oriented and energetic. During footwork drills he'd often run at the quarterbacks as if he was a pass-rush, and he constantly reminded the quarterbacks about keeping their eyes downfield.

During routes-on-air periods he'd bark "Location!" repeatedly to emphasize its importance. After one practice they did a drill where Canales would hold a football right in front of the quarterback's facemask and drop it for them to catch and throw as quickly as possible into a net about 10 yards away. That's just one of the unique drills introduced to Tennessee's quarterbacks this spring.

Now Canales has a recruiting feather in his cap with Martinez. Tennessee's 2018 quarterback recruiting has been a bit of an adventure when you consider what happened with Trevor Lawrence, Emory Jones and Justin Fields. The Vols have to be happy about a haul of Martinez and Michael Penix.

It was excellent work by Canales to salvage the situation, though calling it that is a disservice to Martinez, who was good enough to be committed to a program that just had Jared Goff and Davis Webb and recently added an offer from the program that once had Baker Mayfield and Trevor Knight.
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#104
#104
NeverWe'llSever said:
I assume that's the win total accounting for gaining a regular season game. That's the only way it makes sense. But yeah, the calculations need to be explained.
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It really isn't hard. Just multiply our historical winning percentage against the number of games played in a season. I think it comes out to around 8.8 wins in a 13-game season.

I looked it up. The all-time percentage is .679, which equates to 8.83 wins in a 13-game season.
 
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#106
#106
sanddune50 said:
Anytime someone passes their prediction of the future as a solid argument they are already on the wrong side of it.
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Where in my post, do I try to pass off a prediction as fact? Where I sad that based on the last four seasons, that it was unlikely that Butch would achieve an overall >.500 conference record?

Using CBJ's 4 seasons at UT as a data set, he's currently 14-18 or .4375. CBJ only has 3 seasons to get >.500 conference record before the end of his contract in Feb. 2020.

To get from .4375 to a number greater than .500, with only 24 games means that in the next three seasons we have to have some combination that gets us to at least 15 wins out of 24 games. CBJ's overall conference percentage will be .518 with a 29-27 record

Given what we've seen in those 4 seasons, the odds are not in CBJ's favor that he's going to average at least 5 SEC wins/year over the next three years. Especially considering what we saw in the 2016 season with NFL talent that CBJ himself recruited.

So I stand by the statement, that it's unlikely, that CBJ will ever have >.500 conference winning percentage at UT.

That's not a fact, but if you had to bet your life savings on the over/under, which would you take?
 
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#107
#107
I like his attention to footwork. That's very important to accuracy and confidence in the pocket.
 
#108
#108
butchna said:
Saying THIS means THAT especially when THIS, still falls under the auspice of opinion. I can spin everything you stated and it wouldn't make me more right or you more wrong. These "facts" haven't happened yet. 7 wins could end up being Butch's death bell OR it could show an improvement in teaching. :dunno: Your opinion about decreasing talent could bear true OR be exposed as misguided depending on the ACTUAL PLAYERS and their performance.
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You can prove the decreasing talent from last year to this year. You can also prove that player development is bad.
 
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#109
#109
The offense did well enough last season even if we didn't have an official QB coach. The defense is again the concern this year just like it lost us some games last season. I think we'll put up points again hopefully we will be a lot better on defense as that is where the season rides right now.
I like Canales think he is going to be great at his job my concern is the defense.
 
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#110
#110
Burger said:
On Sunday until gameday, he's a B+, on gameday he lives down to his 51st ranking. Loyalty doesn't mean blindly sunshine pumping 24/7. Loyalty also includes telling it how it is when it's not good.

Not having the expectation to be a great program is what produces mediocrity.
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Spot on. A lot of these posters claim to be fans of the program....sure seems like a lot are more fans of a singular guy who's been here for 4.5 years. I want what's best for the Vols football program....if that's with Butch as head coach then fine, he stays here as long as that's still the case. I personally prefer this....find the right guy and let him become a legendary coach here. If that's Butch Jones then we're all better off, especially the football program.

But when there are clear indications that he's screwed up or is no longer the right the guy to get the program to its goals, which is winning a lot of games and winning division/conference championships, then he needs to be discussed, criticized and then eventually gone and let's try the next guy. Let's just make sure the next guy has the pedigree, the history of success that predicts he's very likely to have great success here. That's just how it does and should work
 
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#112
#112
BeardedVol said:
Where in my post, do I try to pass off a prediction as fact? Where I sad that based on the last four seasons, that it was unlikely that Butch would achieve an overall >.500 conference record?

Using CBJ's 4 seasons at UT as a data set, he's currently 14-18 or .4375. CBJ only has 3 seasons to get >.500 conference record before the end of his contract in Feb. 2020.

To get from .4375 to a number greater than .500, with only 24 games means that in the next three seasons we have to have some combination that gets us to at least 15 wins out of 24 games. CBJ's overall conference percentage will be .518 with a 29-27 record

Given what we've seen in those 4 seasons, the odds are not in CBJ's favor that he's going to average at least 5 SEC wins/year over the next three years. Especially considering what we saw in the 2016 season with NFL talent that CBJ himself recruited.

So I stand by the statement, that it's unlikely, that CBJ will ever have >.500 conference winning percentage at UT.

That's not a fact, but if you had to bet your life savings on the over/under, which would you take?
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I'd stop gambling if I started going that high stakes ON A GAME. :ermm:
 
#113
#113
KBVol said:
Spot on. A lot of these posters claim to be fans of the program....sure seems like a lot are more fans of a singular guy who's been here for 4.5 years.
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Do you honestly believe that?

I ask because, It's easy for me to say A lot of these posters claim to be fans of the program.....but sure seems they hate everything about it. I don't say it because I know they really don't.

I guess it really doesn't matter. It's obvious the only "True" fans, are the ones that agree with me.
 
#115
#115
Burger said:
Bohl is a 4x FCS national championship who turned around Wyoming.

The program ovrerall is peaked under Jones last year. The obvious sign is that he still can't win the east despite the coaches being mediocre at best. Yes, we moved in the right direction until last year since Dooley was canned, but our talent level is already declining.
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Since when does Success at FCS or Wyoming translate to guaranteed success at Tennessee. It is still not a chance that I would want to take.

If Tennessee hired Bohl, this fan base would be in an uproar regardless of the facts you stated. We are Tennessee, if that is the best hire we can make then we are better off with Butch IMHO.

You are seriously out of your mind if you think even 15% of the fan base would support the hiring of Bohl!!!!

Crazy how much people hate Butch Jones, and claim it is about the good of the program. Bohl wouldn't be the answer for what most (99%) of this fan base think Tennessee is worth!!!
 
#116
#116
I always look back at what a good friend told me

"You see that great looking woman over there? She is single for a reason. Stay away!"
 
#118
#118
BeardedVol said:
It seems like you are more loyal to Butch Jones than you are to University of Tennessee, otherwise you'd want what's best for the program, even if that means replacing Butch Jones. I'm not emotionally attached to Butch Jones the way that you are, or any coach for that matter. I want UT Football to succeed, and I want them to have a coach who gives them the best chance to do that. If Butch finally has it together, and can show that he is more than a sub .500 SEC coach, then by all means he should be retained. However, what we've seen in 4 seasons does not lend to that being the case, and if 2017 continues to show him trending to .500 or worse in conference-play, then five years is enough of an exercise in mediocrity for the program.

Feel free to to show your magnanimous loyalty to Butch by following him to whichever MAC/AAC school hires him when he leaves UT.
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You tell me who we could hire that would take us to where we want to be with little possibilty of falling back to the Dooley days? There isn't a top tiered coach in the country that will come here right now? You can spit the stats all you want but we are were we are because of bad coaching hires, what makes you think we can nail a coaching hire and surpass what Fulmer did here? I would love to hear who that would be right now?

Your outright hate for Butch Jones is crazy, I bet you are one who said we should have never hired him right? Well he has given us stability and turned the program around to a point that actually has a little national respect again. that is a fact! He may not be the guy who takes us back to championship level(I never said that he was, as a matter a fact I don't care who coaches at Tennessee), but i wouldn't trade him for any coach that would actually be willing to come here now because I don't see an upgrade on the table.

We should strive to hire the best coach we can but I don't see a coach that is willing to come here that is an upgrade to what we have. I wouldn't trade my displeasure with a coach for another 10 years like we just experienced. It simply isn't worth it for a situation that isn't as bad as you seem to think it is!!!:)
 
#119
#119
BeecherVol said:
At this point he has a commitment under his belt. If he coaches his QBs well this fall his perception will improve.
Until then all you have is a commitment and hope
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Yep. Ok to pump brakes on this. Good sign in recruiting, nothing more.
 
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#120
#120
butchna said:
Go ahead...or do we need to wait? :question:
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The 2014 recruiting class was top 5, the 2015 recruiting class was only top 10, and the 2016 recruiting class was barely ranked in the top 15.

Did you also notice that when players at different positions got hurt, the drop off was severe?
 
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#121
#121
johnrlansford said:
You tell me who we could hire that would take us to where we want to be with little possibilty of falling back to the Dooley days? There isn't a top tiered coach in the country that will come here right now? You can spit the stats all you want but we are were we are because of bad coaching hires, what makes you think we can nail a coaching hire and surpass what Fulmer did here? I would love to hear who that would be right now?

Your outright hate for Butch Jones is crazy, I bet you are one who said we should have never hired him right? Well he has given us stability and turned the program around to a point that actually has a little national respect again. that is a fact! He may not be the guy who takes us back to championship level(I never said that he was, as a matter a fact I don't care who coaches at Tennessee), but i wouldn't trade him for any coach that would actually be willing to come here now because I don't see an upgrade on the table.

We should strive to hire the best coach we can but I don't see a coach that is willing to come here that is an upgrade to what we have. I wouldn't trade my displeasure with a coach for another 10 years like we just experienced. It simply isn't worth it for a situation that isn't as bad as you seem to think it is!!!:)
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Calm thyself; I don't hate Butch Jones. On the contrary, I think he did a decent job with what he had starting out, but given what we've seen over the past four years, he has not shown himself to be the coach that brings UT back to competing for SEC championships. It's nothing personal, and there's no emotion involved in that statement as I base it purely on the results that he has compiled in those four soon-to-be five seasons.

There is absolutely no logic in keeping a coach who is sub .500 in conference play after five seasons.

It's a very hollow argument to suggest that there are not able coaches in the in the NCAA, who are more than capable of achieving better than a .4375 conference win percentage in the SECe.
 
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#122
#122
Burger said:
The 2014 recruiting class was top 5, the 2015 recruiting class was only top 10, and the 2016 recruiting class was barely ranked in the top 15.

Did you also notice that when players at different positions got hurt, the drop off was severe?
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You're citing class rankings as "proof"? How these players perform is the true barometer of BOTH talent and player development. Your "proof" hasn't happened yet.
 
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#123
#123
Behr said:
Do you honestly believe that?

I ask because, It's easy for me to say A lot of these posters claim to be fans of the program.....but sure seems they hate everything about it. I don't say it because I know they really don't.

I guess it really doesn't matter. It's obvious the only "True" fans, are the ones that agree with me.
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Let me restate. I'm a fan of the Tennessee Vols football program, have been pretty much whole life, always will be. I'm only a fan of any Tennessee Vols football program head coach to the extent that he's improving the program, winning games/championships, moving the program forward/in the right direction.

Yet, when I or most anybody else similarly posts much of anything "negative" about Butch Jones' job performance, like clockwork here come long knives from a handful of posters who seem to do nothing by snipe and gripe about criticism of Butch no matter how innocuous or how valid the point or criticism is. No criticism whatsoever of allowed of the head coach.....players and fans, you bet, no problem, let em have it. But the one singular guy most responsible for the successes and failures of the program, no siree, not allowed, go pull for somebody else, you're not a real Vol fan if you have anything not "positive" or glowing to say.

So, yeah, I stand by the idea that there guys on here who seem to have lost their way, their priority here. It's not about the caretaker, as Jones calls it, of the program, because they come and go......Neyland, Dickey, Majors, Fulmer......it's all about the good, the health and improvement of the program.
 
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#124
#124
BeardedVol said:
Calm thyself; I don't hate Butch Jones. On the contrary, I think he did a decent job with what he had starting out, but given what we've seen over the past four years, he has not shown himself to be the coach that brings UT back to competing for SEC championships. It's nothing personal, and there's no emotion involved in that statement as I base it purely on the results that he has compiled in those four soon-to-be five seasons.

There is absolutely no logic in keeping a coach who is sub .500 in conference play after five seasons.

It's a very hollow argument to suggest that there are not able coaches in the in the NCAA, who are more than capable of achieving better than a .4375 conference win percentage in the SECe.
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You still haven't told me who? Who would you hire that would actually come here and guarantee to be better than Butch Jones right now?

Most good (not great coaches) want to stay in the Big10, ACC, Pac12 or Big12 rather than face the SEC grind every week. They only have to beat Saban once rather than play him multiple times a year. I think the coaching in the SEC is bad because of the bar that Saban has set extremely high.

No one in the country can compete on the field and recruiting year in and year out against Saban. A few teams make a run now and then and even will beat Saban here and there but no one does it on a consistent basis not even Meyer, who is probably the 2nd best coach in the country who bailed out of the SEC shortly after Saban returned to play in a top heavy BIG10.

Butch could be better and we could do better than Butch but I am not sure without a slam dunk hire we aren't in the same situation in 2-4 years. I am not about changing coaches just to change coaches, I need a person who is proven and can almost guarantee success to make that move for!!!:)
 
#125
#125
KBVol said:
Let me restate. I'm a fan of the Tennessee Vols football program, have been pretty much whole life, always will be. I'm only a fan of any Tennessee Vols football program head coach to the extent that he's improving the program, winning games/championships, moving the program forward/in the right direction.

Yet, when I or most anybody else similarly posts much of anything "negative" about Butch Jones' job performance, like clockwork here come long knives from a handful of posters who seem to do nothing by snipe and gripe about criticism of Butch no matter how innocuous or how valid the point or criticism is. No criticism whatsoever of allowed of the head coach.....players and fans, you bet, no problem, let em have it. But the one singular guy most responsible for the successes and failures of the program, no siree, not allowed, go pull for somebody else, you're not a real Vol fan if you have anything not "positive" or glowing to say.

So, yeah, I stand by the idea that there guys on here who seem to have lost their way, their priority here. It's not about the caretaker, as Jones calls it, of the program, because they come and go......Neyland, Dickey, Majors, Fulmer......it's all about the good, the health and improvement of the program.
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You cannot rationally say that this program has not improved from where it was when Butch was hired. It has, siginificantly, and in every area.

In fact, it improved every year under him until last year. And, yes, last year was not a good coaching job by him. He had some unfortunate injuries, but he let the Hurd situation get out of control, and he failed to place competent assistants at several positions (including QB and S&C) that were just a few of the shortcomings.

But, he has earned the right to coach at least through 2017 IMO based on his performance so far. With that, I will support the man rather than whine, p!$$ and moan over everything. Not a sunshine pumping blind follower, but certainly not a doom and gloom Negavol either.
 
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