Georgia Tech with a message to Tennessee....

#252
#252
Defending against a triple option offense is all about assignments. Whole lotta "if/then" statements for players to learn and get instinctive on. This is true for the DBs as much as anyone else on the team.

It all starts with a first read: which direction are the QB and RBs moving? Unless one of the backs gets a quick handoff and dives through the line off-center, or the QB pulls up to fire a quick slant pass, they're probably going to be moving toward the left or right flat.

If they're coming toward my side, my assignments are different than if they're going to the other side. So if I'm a cornerback, and the offensive backfield starts moving to my side of the field, my assignment might be to go after the pitch man. One of the safeties will pick up my receiver (could be zone coverage or man to man). If the play goes in the other direction, I'll be picking up my receiver (or my zone) and guarding against the reverse.

There's as much room for surprise and variability defending the wishbone/flexbone/triple option as there is any other offense, but the logic trees change for the defenders significantly.

Sorry that didn't really answer your question, but my neophyte understanding of the system doesn't show a clear answer. It can vary.

[only reason I have even a neophyte understanding of it is all those years watching Army and Navy, heh]
 
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#253
#253
Tin Man said:
Summation a la Les Miles:
heres-the-epic-expletive-laced-speech-les-miles-gave-last-night-after-lsus-narrow-victory.jpg


BeardedVol did post .

BeardedVol contends that he did not intend to convey that the sole focus in the preceding months was preparation to play Appalachian State. However, it's apparent that he "lacks the chest" to admit that his choice of words could easily be construed to mean just that by the average FFer.
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Of course the head coach has nothing to do with preparing their football team.
 
#254
#254
BeardedVol said:
Knowing the difference between the use of of an idiom as a noun, and an adverb phrase would go a long way to help your reading comprehension.

Let me remove "Butch Jones" from the statement since that seems to be a trigger for you.

Take these two statements:

Months on end to get the roof fixed, and it's still leaking.

You've spent months on end fixing the roof, and it's still leaking.

Literally the same words, with two very different meanings because the idiom is the subject of the first sentence, and an adverb phrase in the second. The first denotes the amount of time available to accomplish the task, and the second describes the time spent on trying to accomplish the task.

It's pretty disingenuous of you to try to apply the incorrect meaning to support your attempt to cast me as being dishonest.
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Neyland doesn't have a roof though.
 
#258
#258
VFL-82-JP said:
Defending against a triple option offense is all about assignments. Whole lotta "if/then" statements for players to learn and get instinctive on. This is true for the DBs as much as anyone else on the team.

It all starts with a first read: which direction are the QB and RBs moving? Unless one of the backs gets a quick handoff and dives through the line off-center, they're probably going to be moving toward the left or right flat.
If they're coming toward my side, my assignments are different than if they're going to the other side. So if I'm a cornerback, and the offensive backfield starts moving to my side of the field, my assignment might be to go after the pitch man. One of the safeties will pick up my receiver (could be zone coverage or man to man). If the play goes in the other direction, I'll be picking up my receiver (or my zone) and guarding against the reverse.

There's as much room for surprise and variability defending the wishbone/flexbone/triple option as there is any other offense, but the logic trees change for the defenders significantly.

Sorry that didn't really answer your question, but my neophyte understanding of the system doesn't show a clear answer. It can vary.

[only reason I have even a neophyte understanding of it is all those years watching Army and Navy, heh]
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Put a helmet on the QB, scuff him up a bit, he will start pitching it early.

To let him pitch or keep without getting hammered would make for a long day.
 
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#259
#259
Iam4utalways said:
Put a helmet on the QB, scuff him up a bit, he will start pitching it early.

To let him pitch or keep without getting hammered would make for a long day.
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A good option QB may get hit a lot, but he knows how to pitch the ball just before he does. Gotta be kinda fearless, very quick-witted, and physical to QB the wishbone. Don't necessarily have to be the best passer on the planet, but you do have to have a quick mind and reflexes.

The "hit him hard, early and often, and mess his game up" approach generally works better against pocket passers than triple option QBs. They're usually tough little fellas.
 
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#260
#260
VFL-82-JP said:
A good option QB may get hit a lot, but he knows how to pitch the ball just before he does. Gotta be kinda fearless, very quick-witted, and physical to QB the wishbone. Don't necessarily have to be the best passer on the planet, but you do have to have a quick mind and reflexes.

The "hit him hard, early and often, and mess his game up" approach generally works better against pocket passers than triple option QBs. They're usually tough little fellas.
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What bugs me is when a player(usually the DE), plays the ball and ends up hitting nobody, the play goes for 6-10 yards and the QB lines up and is ready to run it again.

What do the Refs say about hitting the QB to force the pitch? Will they flag it or is it part of the game?

I know helmet to helmet his will draw a flag, but will a clean hit driving him to the turf get flagged too?
 
#261
#261
1974Vol said:
The GT offense can be very effective but it can also be a turnover machine when breaking in a new QB. The last time they did, 2015, the averaged 2.8 fumbles per game 127 out of 128 teams. When you start pitching the ball all over the park some of them end up on the ground.
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The last time GT broke in a new QB was 2014 when we went to the orange bowl and beat dak and the miss state bulldogs. 2014, 2015, and 2016 was the same QB, Justin Thomas. Reason it was so bad in 2015 was because of skilled position guys. We lost our best OL to the patriots we lost both of our B backs, all our A backs and that played and our two starting WR's to the NFL from the 2014 season. This year on offense every one that played meaningful snaps is returning, minus our center and QB.
 
#262
#262
Iam4utalways said:
What bugs me is when a player(usually the DE), plays the ball and ends up hitting nobody, the play goes for 6-10 yards and the QB lines up and is ready to run it again.

What do the Refs say about hitting the QB to force the pitch? Will they flag it or is it part of the game?

I know helmet to helmet his will draw a flag, but will a clean hit driving him to the turf get flagged too?
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In all the games I've seen, the refs tend to treat wishbone QBs more like RBs, unless they've pulled up to pass the ball. At that point, they get the same protection as a pocket passer. But if the ball is below their shoulders and they're moving, they're effectively a running back as far as the rules go.
 
#263
#263
Techfan1 said:
This year on offense every one that played meaningful snaps is returning, minus our center and QB.
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Unfortunately for Ga Tech, the Center and QB are THE keys to the wishbone/flexbone/triple option.

Who's going to be your starting QB, TechFan, and how much experience does he have on the team? New guy, or experienced backup?
 
#264
#264
VFL-82-JP said:
Unfortunately for Ga Tech, the Center and QB are THE keys to the wishbone/flexbone/triple option.

Who's going to be your starting QB, TechFan, and how much experience does he have on the team? New guy, or experienced backup?
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I agree, good thing about center is our backup played a lot because of injuries to the starter and he did well. As far as QB it's a competition right now, last year when Justin was injured our backup center and QB (Matthew Jordan) played against VT the whole game and we won. Matthew Jordan is a bigger stronger QB but hasn't shown in a game yet if he can pass well. There is a redshirt freshman who is showing out from what I am hearing and we have our 3rd string guy from last year competing as well, so it seems like it's a 3 man race right now. None of them have much if any experience though, except Matthew Jordan. I'm more worried about our D over anything.

You can probably watch our spring game on Friday night at 7:00 I think it will be one espn 3.
 
#265
#265
BeardedVol said:
I see you aren't familiar with the phrase "months on end".

Having several months in which to prepare for App State =/= spending all of those months preparing for App State alone. I stated the former.
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So what was your point then as it relates to the conversation? It doesn't matter if you meant "solely" or not.

Your comment about the Appy State game was in regard to how Tennessee teams under Jones have performed with extra time to prepare. Like Jake said, you are either suggesting we spent months preparing and looked bad anyway (which seems do be where you were going) or that we had months to prepare and didn't, which seems like a completely different argument and unrelated to this discussion.

Either way, like I mentioned before, I think it's a bad example of a poor performance with extra time to prepare.

With Virginia Tech up the following week, that game was more likely to be overlooked. The South Carolina game is a much better example of the point it seems like you're trying to make, rather than months preparing (solely or not) for a sunbelt team.
 
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#266
#266
Madscientistvol said:
This is a generalization, but a lot of fan bases for more academically inclined schools tend to lean on the pretentious side in my experience. Especially when dealing with a state university.

They can just "lol rednecks" and feel superior.
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Agreed, but they'll never be as bad as Bammers though.

IMO, the most annoying quality in a fanbase is a sense of entitlement. The "b-b-b-but that's not supposed to happen" attitude after a loss...any loss. Bammers embody that mentality.
 
#267
#267
05_never_again said:
Agreed, but they'll never be as bad as Bammers though.

IMO, the most annoying quality in a fanbase is a sense of entitlement. The "b-b-b-but that's not supposed to happen" attitude after a loss...any loss. Bammers embody that mentality.
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i'll never forget walking out of Neyland in 96 after winning that game and seeing them get on their busses saying "we're still Alabama"...to which the most common reply was "yeah, and you still lost...GBO".:eek:lol:

oh, those were the days......:blush:
 
#268
#268
Freak said:
So what was your point then as it relates to the conversation? It doesn't matter if you meant "solely" or not.

Your comment about the Appy State game was in regard to how Tennessee teams under Jones have performed with extra time to prepare. Like Jake said, you are either suggesting we spent months preparing and looked bad anyway (which seems do be where you were going) or that we had months to prepare and didn't, which seems like a completely different argument and unrelated to this discussion.

Either way, like I mentioned before, I think it's a bad example of a poor performance with extra time to prepare.

With Virginia Tech up the following week, that game was more likely to be overlooked. The South Carolina game is a much better example of the point it seems like you're trying to make, rather than months preparing (solely or not) for a sunbelt team.
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My comment was in reference to the fact that there were literally months worth of time available to the coaching staff, in order to get the team prepared to play App State in the opener, yet we come out and played undisciplined, and unprepared football. Not once did I say that they should, or did spend the entirety of those months preparing just for the App State game. Throughout the 2016 season, we came out and played the majority of most of the games in an unprepared, and undisciplined manner. In 2016 at least, more time to prepare for an opponent didn't seem to positively affect the performance of the team.
 
#269
#269
jakez4ut said:
i'll never forget walking out of Neyland in 96 after winning that game and seeing them get on their busses saying "we're still Alabama"...to which the most common reply was "yeah, and you still lost...GBO".:eek:lol:

oh, those were the days......:blush:
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Wow, so they've always said that crap. I thought "we're still Alabama" was a more recent phenomenon, since unlike in 1996 they've actually been good for the last decade.
 
#270
#270
BeardedVol said:
My comment was in reference to the fact that there were literally months worth of time available to the coaching staff, in order to get the team prepared to play App State in the opener, yet we come out and played undisciplined, and unprepared football. Not once did I say that they should, or did spend the entirety of those months preparing just for the App State game. Throughout the 2016 season, we came out and played the majority of most of the games in an unprepared, and undisciplined manner.
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We agree. The team looked crappy against Appy State. We were lucky to win.

But what's your point as it relates to Butch's record with extra time to prepare? We had months to prepare the team for the season, which includes all 12 games. Nobody, including you based on your clarifications, believes we spent months preparing for Appy State.


So for clarification, with all the "hads" and "spents" and "soleys," how much time do you think we spent working specifically on Appy State?
 
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#271
#271
Freak said:
We agree. The team looked crappy against Appy State. We were lucky to win.

But what's your point as it relates to Butch's record with extra time to prepare? We had months to prepare the team for the season, which includes all 12 games. Nobody, including you based on your clarifications, believes we spent months preparing for Appy State.


So for clarification, with all the "hads" and "spents" and "soleys," how much time do you think we spent working specifically on Appy State?
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not enough.:)
 
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