Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXIII

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#2,651
#2,651
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I gotta go with Mullen at 2, but IF Butch were to pull a big season out if his arse this year, I would actually put him second. MacHorsetooth has been a beneficiary of some very good defensive talent not recruited by him.
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I think butter teeth is a good coach as far as just coaching goes. He doesn't appear to be a good recruiter, which is a huge part of determining how good you are in the SEC. So overall it's hard to put him toward the top
 
#2,654
#2,654
MockingVol said:
Lol na
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Laugh if you want but 5 years in and your best win total is 8 you are not safe. Sorry.

And on a side note, I think this is where a lot of the angst from the Butch doubters comes from. They don't think he will be fired for being average. He hasn't built up the equity to be safe at 8-4 and that is his fault. He crapped the bed last season.
 
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#2,656
#2,656
BigZiti09 said:
It's never gonna be any cheaper to fire him.

He did not get extended last year. In this climate you are either getting extended or getting fired.
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You don't fire an 8-4 coach unless you have your replacement man identified and he is A+ tier. A 9-4 coach is a B coach, there aren't a ton of guys that are upgrades. Most people are either straight up worse or they will be equivalent which the chaos from a turnover would make them not worth it.
 
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#2,657
#2,657
LaagerVol said:
I think butter teeth is a good coach as far as just coaching goes. He doesn't appear to be a good recruiter, which is a huge part of determining how good you are in the SEC. So overall it's hard to put him toward the top
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I cannot give him that. He is an offensive specialist, and his offense has been complete garbage. It is the weakness of the team. They have won despite him, because of defense and that is it.
 
#2,658
#2,658
BigZiti09 said:
Laugh if you want but 5 years in and your best win total is 8 you are not safe. Sorry.

And on a side note, I think this is where a lot of the angst from the Butch doubters comes from. They don't think he will be fired for being average. He hasn't built up the equity to be safe at 8-4 and that is his fault. He crapped the bed last season.
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Good thing he has had 9 wins two season in a row then; something that hasn't been done in quite some time might I add.
 
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#2,659
#2,659
BigZiti09 said:
Laugh if you want but 5 years in and your best win total is 8 you are not safe. Sorry.

And on a side note, I think this is where a lot of the angst from the Butch doubters comes from. They don't think he will be fired for being average. He hasn't built up the equity to be safe at 8-4 and that is his fault. He crapped the bed last season.
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You spelled "lost 40% of his starters" wrong.
 
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#2,664
#2,664
MockingVol said:
You don't fire an 8-4 coach unless you have your replacement man identified and he is A+ tier. A 9-4 coach is a B coach, there aren't a ton of guys that are upgrades. Most people are either straight up worse or they will be equivalent which the chaos from a turnover would make them not worth it.
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This is a great point. We would be right back to the Fulmer deal again if Butch is fired for going 8--4. Most fans are just plain stupid. Butch came here when this place was a dumpster fire. We're not a dumpster fire anymore and our AD knows that.

Bottom line is that Butch is here for a long time and that pisses off some of our local fans. It's all about money and that's it. As long as fans are selling the stadium out, Butch is gold.
 
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#2,668
#2,668
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I cannot give him that. He is an offensive specialist, and his offense has been complete garbage. It is the weakness of the team. They have won despite him, because of defense and that is it.
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Very good points. His OL and QBs have been trash though so maybe the jury is still out on how good of an offensive coach he is.

With that said I wnt say anything more on the subject because I sure don't want to be perceived as defending anything gators lol
 
#2,669
#2,669
MockingVol said:
I'm not sure if you are over or under thinking this issue Ziti, but you are definitely not looking at it clearly.
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You guys are focusing too much on the 2017 season by itself.

This is a guy who has choked away multiple games. It is a guy who is starting to slip in recruiting. At the end of year 5 with a coach with no divisional titles I think it is entirely reasonable to look at the program and say "we can do better. He has been given long enough. Let's hire a new guy before our talent level continues to drop."

There's several factors and unknowns at play. I could dream up scenarios where we keep him at 7-5 and fire him at 8-4. A lot of it may depend on the optimism or lack thereof surrounding the program in Decenber.

Mark Richt went 9-3 and got fired. That is a guy with 2 SEC championships and had went 10-3 the previous season. He went 12-2 and was one play away from playing for a national title just 3 seasons prior. He had a ton of equity built up and still got axed at 9-3. Butch Jones has done a good job rebuilding and I realize the situations aren't the same but he is not 100% safe at 8-4.
 
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#2,672
#2,672
MockingVol said:
You don't fire an 8-4 coach unless you have your replacement man identified and he is A+ tier. A 9-4 coach is a B coach, there aren't a ton of guys that are upgrades. Most people are either straight up worse or they will be equivalent which the chaos from a turnover would make them not worth it.
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It happens and will continue to happen. Whether it is a good decision is a different story.
 
#2,673
#2,673
MockingVol said:
You don't fire an 8-4 coach unless you have your replacement man identified and he is A+ tier. A 9-4 coach is a B coach, there aren't a ton of guys that are upgrades. Most people are either straight up worse or they will be equivalent which the chaos from a turnover would make them not worth it.
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Sometimes keeping a coach becomes "not worth it" because they lose all their juice on the recruiting trail and the perception that they are a hot seat coach becomes reality and then leads to their firing.

The next coach may not be any better than Butch Jones but it may be time to move on to the next guy after this season if he isn't able to instill some confidence that he is the right guy to lead us for the next few years.
 
#2,675
#2,675
BigZiti09 said:
You guys are focusing too much on the 2017 season by itself.

This is a guy who has choked away multiple games. It is a guy who is starting to slip in recruiting. At the end of year 5 with a coach with no divisional titles I think it is entirely reasonable to look at the program and say "we can do better. He has been given long enough. Let's hire a new guy before our talent level continues to drop."

There's several factors and unknowns at play. I could dream up scenarios where we keep him at 7-5 and fire him at 8-4. A lot of it may depend on the optimism or lack thereof surrounding the program in Decenber.

Mark Richt went 9-3 and got fired. That is a guy with 2 SEC championships and had went 10-3 the previous season. He went 12-2 and was one play away from playing for a national title just 3 seasons prior. He had a ton of equity built up and still got axed at 9-3. Butch Jones has done a good job rebuilding and I realize the situations aren't the same but he is not 100% safe at 8-4.
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Who said he is 100% safe?
 
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