Vols trending Down (247 article)

#501
#501
I think if you ignore the headline and read the article through twice, it is not as bad as you would think. If we had won the TX A&M, SC and Vandy games (all realistically winnable) would these people have said these things? Much of the same facts would still have been true with the Lawson situation, coaching squabbles, preferential treatment of certain players etc... My basic point is even if we had won those games the same supposed problems would still exist, we are just hearing about them because of the disappointment. I think most of these things can be fixed and I am hoping they will be. I mean, it is a bit of a stretch to say "the culture is a disaster"...but but...Josh Dobbs and Derek Barnett et al don't apply.
 
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#502
#502
VoLunTiTan7 said:
I mean, it is a bit of a stretch to say "the culture is a disaster"...but but...Josh Dobbs and Derek Barnett et al don't apply.
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He needed to avoid the - well what about Dobbs, what about Barnett arguments against what he was saying.

Truth is the culture is NOT a disaster. You have some former players (... we can all easily guess who they are ...) complaining. That is not a disaster.

He failed to talk about the community work. He failed to talk about the APR. He failed to talk about the positive off the field aspect of this team. But he focused on the disappointment of 2 losses.

Very little if any FACTS in the article - only opinions.
 
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#503
#503
volfan102455 said:
He needed to avoid the - well what about Dobbs, what about Barnett arguments against what he was saying.

Truth is the culture is NOT a disaster. You have some former players (... we can all easily guess who they are ...) complaining. That is not a disaster.

He failed to talk about the community work. He failed to talk about the APR. He failed to talk about the positive off the field aspect of this team. But he focused on the disappointment of 2 losses.

Very little if any FACTS in the article - only opinions.
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Game. Set. Match.

/thread
 
#504
#504
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I agree some made sense. We were questioning wth was going on here long before that story came out.

I would probably just sit on a story if all my sources were unnamed. I know it happens but it just doesn't look good for the journalist as a reader imo. But, even if only one thing is true, I sure hope it gets fixed and quickly.
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Having unnamed sources is neither an anomaly nor is it unethical like some seem to be suggesting....as I heard both Ryan Callahan and Chris Low say on the radio yesterday, they're used all the time. For example, one of them gave the example of anytime you hear about a coach getting hired or fired, you get anonymous sourcing all the time. Callahan even mentioned anonymous sources are used often when reporting on recruits. And, obviously, you're not gonna get the honest, candid comments from people working with, around and under someone, like Haney did, if it requires them to go on the record, thereby putting their job/career at risk.

The way I look at is this .....as a fan, I knew what I saw from this team all year long just wasn't right, from the on the field play to the off the field stuff. I personally want more information, not less. And as Haney said, he didn't go into this trying to write any particular piece, good or bad, positive or negative. But what he found was remarkable, in that do many said so much negative about a coach that's still there. You and others may have wanted him to sit on the story, but I don't. I'm hopeful that perhaps shining some light on what's going on up there leads to positive change that could include Butch changing his mindset and methods where needed to get things back on the rails.
 
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#506
#506
KBVol said:
Having unnamed sources is neither an anomaly nor is it unethical like some seem to be suggesting....as I heard both Ryan Callahan and Chris Low say on the radio yesterday, they're used all the time. For example, one of them gave the example of anytime you hear about a coach getting hired or fired, you get anonymous sourcing all the time. Callahan even mentioned anonymous sources are used often when reporting on recruits.

The way I look at is this .....as a fan, I knew what I saw from this team all year long just wasn't right, from the on the field play to the off the field stuff. I personally want more information, not less about. And as Haney said, he didn't go into this trying to write any particular piece, good or bad, positive or negative. But what he found was remarkable, in that do many said so much negative about a coach that's still there. You and others may have wanted him to sit on the story, but I don't. I'm hopeful that perhaps shining some light on what's going on up there leads to positive change that could include Butch changing his mindset and methods where needed to get things back on the rails.
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Sounds like some moon sized craters starting to show up in Haneys story now. On 104.5 yesterday Haney said "the GV247 site guys helped him write this story." They are saying they knew the story was coming out but didn't write one word in it and didn't see it untill it was released.

Also Haney said that he tracked Daniel Hood down himself. Turns out this is also untrue that someone give him his #.

With so many unnamed sources KB, this is why you have to be careful running with it and take it with a grain of salt.

Free read even without an account. Go read the thread.
 
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#507
#507
Orange_Vol1321 said:
http://*******************************/114/Contents/Ryan-and-Wes-Travis-said-on-1045-49669661

Sounds like some moon sized craters starting to show up in Haneys story now. On 104.5 yesterday Haney said "the GV247 site guys helped him write this story." They are saying they knew the story was coming out but didn't write one word in it and didn't see it untill it was released.

Also Haney said that he tracked Daniel Hood down himself. Turns out this is also untrue that someone give him his #.

With so many unnamed sources KB, this is why you have to be careful running with it and take it with a grain of salt.
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No. Did you listen to his interview yesterday? He didn't say the other guys at 24/7 "helped him write it". He said that after getting all the quotes and information, that he discussed it with other guys, ran it by the other guys and asked them if it squared with what they had been hearing this an effort to be fair and thorough. That's quite different.

And again, nobody is gonna go on the record and criticize someone who could affect their job/career and/or have them fired.
 
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#509
#509
volfan102455 said:
He needed to avoid the - well what about Dobbs, what about Barnett arguments against what he was saying.

Truth is the culture is NOT a disaster. You have some former players (... we can all easily guess who they are ...) complaining. That is not a disaster.

He failed to talk about the community work. He failed to talk about the APR. He failed to talk about the positive off the field aspect of this team. But he focused on the disappointment of 2 losses.

Very little if any FACTS in the article - only opinions.
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Good grief! Most (if not all teams) are present in the community. Community work and the APR are nice but that's not what Butch is paid to do. It's maybe 10%.

How do you know about whether or not they're opinions vs facts? You don't. Those people would like to keep their jobs.

If someone was writing an article about your company and interviewed you how honest would you be if your name was mentioned vs not being mentioned?
 
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#510
#510
NashVol11 said:
This is a false dichotomy. You don't have to cheat to win big, and winning slowly doesn't mean you're still building toward 12-0 but just doing it "the right way." It's largely about the quality of the coach on the sidelines.
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Agreed. When a better coach steps in you see an almost immediate impact in the level of play on the field.
 
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#511
#511
KBVol said:
No. Did you listen to his interview yesterday? He didn't say the other guys at 24/7 "helped him write it". He said that after getting all the quotes and information, that he discussed it with other guys, ran it by the other guys and asked them if it squared with what they had been hearing this an effort to be fair and thorough. That's quite different.
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The "other guys" have denied discussing anything with him or knowing it's content. All they said was they knew when it was coming out.
 
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#512
#512
Boca Vol said:
Good grief! Most (if not all teams) are present in the community. Community work and the APR are nice but that's not what Butch is paid to do. It's maybe 10%.
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Depends upon what is important to a person. If the football team was 12-0 but the players were getting into trouble off the field some would consider that worse than a 8/9 win season. You shouldn't make a blanket statement about culture and ignore the good to be able to made a slanderous statement.

How do you know about whether or not they're opinions vs facts? You don't. Those people would like to keep their jobs.
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He uses the quotes from unnamed sources to prove an opinion. These are here say unless you know exactly who said it and the facts around the actual situation that resulted with them saying what they said. It could be just the "unnamed source's" opinion and based on what they think. In fact most of this reads as "opinions" even the quotes from the unnamed sources.

If someone was writing an article about your company and interviewed you how honest would you be if your name was mentioned vs not being mentioned?
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I would not be talking to said person unless someone in the direct path of my management had instructed me to talk to said person about the topic. Grounds for dismissal.
 
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#514
#514
Wanted to bring this back up because what was said on the sports source a few minutes ago and a friend of Haneys has said.


Sports source basically said an SEC team assistant from another team (not Tennessee) was interviewed and asked about Coach Jones. They were making fun of Haney saying "if you ask another team about a rival team ofcourse you will get negative comments" which is what Haney ran with.


And this is from Brad Shepard at bleacherreport discussing the story. Seems like they were friends until this came out. Below is from the RF.

Post from Brad Shepard on the Haney fiasco on 247:

Originally Posted by :
I haven't spoken to T. since any of this, even the first one. I love T. and we are friends but we aren't close regretfully like we used to be. Our wives have never met. He spent an evening with us this past summer. But we don't talk often. I'm disappointed in the first story. I never would have written it that way. It wasn't professional at all and it blindsided me. I'm baffled 247 allowed this past one to run, especially after The Promise.

Travis has no love for Tennessee, never has. He doesn't hate them, and I think he would like to see them do well ultimately. But I don't think he thinks Butch is the answer. That does not give him free reign to write the things he has, though, which has disappointed me as a fan and somebody who used to write and treat anonymous sources with the most special care you can. When there are axes to grind or upper hands to gain, those people are off limits anonymous. I think T. probably feasted off those people for his stories. While I take no substance in the point either story attempted to make, the only anxiety I got from either one is the divisiveness and dysfunction in the AD, one Currie needs to rectify quickly, eradicating the people without UT's best interests in mind.

I can assure you though, none of this from Wes and Ryan is lip service. They are genuinely mad, and they should be. As the owner of a beat, you are uncomfortable anytime there's a direct hit from a passerby on the program you cover. I think you get fair reporting from those guys, whether good or bad. But they refrain from potshots. When those come from your organization, it damages a relationship. I guarantee you they deal with this daily, and while the bridges are in no way, shape or form burned, I'm sure the latest cheap shot hasn't helped what always takes time to mend.

I don't think info has suffered vs other sites in the least. Do I think the Haney story, the Title IX suit, the fallout from the AD search fiasco (though it turned out OK) and Butch's thin skin following a disappointing season has slowed UT information for everybody to a trickle? Absolutely I do.
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Sounds like Wes and Ryan are mad. Slow, wrong, or no info coming towards them. You play with fire you get burned Wes and Ryan.
 
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#517
#517
Catbone said:
Should've just lived up to expectations so he would be forced to write something positive
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Wouldn't matter. Until Butch goes 15-0 and wins a national championship, writers will still find ways to take potshots at Tennessee. We have an easily outraged fanbase and it generates tons of clicks and money for their employers.
 
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#518
#518
Aesius said:
Wouldn't matter. Until Butch goes 15-0 and wins a national championship, writers will still find ways to take potshots at Tennessee. We have an easily outraged fanbase and it generates tons of clicks and money for their employers.
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Witch Doctor confused...burn mattress or not? lol. Spot on, Knocks Sports media plays our base like a fiddle. Its been said many times, dumbest fan base in America and we just keep proving it.

Bones Never Lie.
 
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#520
#520
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Wanted to bring this back up because what was said on the sports source a few minutes ago and a friend of Haneys has said.


Sports source basically said an SEC team assistant from another team (not Tennessee) was interviewed and asked about Coach Jones. They were making fun of Haney saying "if you ask another team about a rival team ofcourse you will get negative comments" which is what Haney ran with.


And this is from Brad Shepard at bleacherreport discussing the story. Seems like they were friends until this came out. Below is from the RF.



Sounds like Wes and Ryan are mad. Slow, wrong, or no info coming towards them. You play with fire you get burned Wes and Ryan.
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He said/she said....at best.
 
#523
#523
Witch_Doctor said:
Witch Doctor confused...burn mattress or not? lol. Spot on, Knocks Sports media plays our base like a fiddle. Its been said many times, dumbest fan base in America and we just keep proving it.

Bones Never Lie.
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Maybe not dumbest, but as much as Butch is dogged for his think skin in media, we sure do seem like the fan base version of him...in regards to thin skin.
 
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#525
#525
KBVol said:
About as shocked as I am you decided to revive a thread that had been dormant for 3 months.
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With new info on his sources of his story and a friend of his basically saying he went rogue?

Yea, pretty stupid of me to revive the thread with this new info especially when it contradicts his story and his "unnamed sources."
 
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