Vols trending Down (247 article)

#476
#476
KBVol said:
Your opinion. Haney is a UT grad and well thought of journalist. Said the inspiration for doing the story was all the stuff that happened this season that fans were discussing since the App State game....why the slow starts, undisciplined play, poor physicality, untimely exits from PWill and Hurd, suspensions due to drug use, and finally, the bad losses to two inferior teams with the team's seasons goals on the line.

Said, since he's a UT grad, got on the phone and visited with a lot of contacts he has around the program and that's what he primarily got.....mainly all negative. Even said there was still some more harsh comments and criticisms that he didn't go with. Said he collected all the quotes, comments, information and shared/cross-referenced with others who cover the team at 24/7.

Everyone can certainly come to his or her own thoughts and conclusions. For me, he sounded awfully credible and, quite honestly, given what we saw from the team/program, it sure seemed to match up, especially the information regarding Jones' falling out with Lawson and what we subsequently saw on the field....if one was wondering how App State could physically dominate Tennessee at the line scrimmage, that would go a long way towards explaining it.

Bottom line, you don't believe him, no worries. For me, this is more a case of "where there's smoke there's fire"....we saw the smoke all year long...Haney is just verifying the fire IMO.
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Passes the smell test. The last 48 hours have been very good, and big, for Butch. He's in his wheelhouse: recruiting. Here is where, IMO, he does his best work.

There's just something....wrong might be the wrong word..."off" with this staff. I don't know what it is, but there's some type of chemistry, or coordination, or control issue there. Haney's article points in this direction.

Yes, too much smoke. Unless Butch (and staff) can put that fire out, his seat is going to get awfully warm next season.

Go Vols.
 
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#477
#477
vols4sure said:
Was today's article really a positive? It quoted ONE booster. The booster did not refute anything that was said in the previous article. "The verdict is still out" and "next year is his time to either show he has the leadership or not" is almost consistent with the previous article that essentially questioned his leadership abilities of the 2015 team.
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I didn't like either. The Haney piece was journalism 101 at its finest and par for the course in 2016 and by that I mean complete horse manure.

You could write the same story with "insert team here" all across the country. Every team has lazy players. Every team has diva players that want their spot handed to them.

As for unnamed sources, how can you write an article using 10 unnamed sources and one named. I would be embarrassed to call myself a journalist and write a story and use quotes from unnamed sources. I would think to myself "this looks like an opinion of me as a writeup more than what's happening."

And back to Hood being the only one named. He couldn't find not one named player, employee or VFL to speak on the integrity and work ethic of Butch?

Im sorry I call big pile of BS on not just the story but the timing.

From what I've read on 24/7 TN board they have since "nuked the story" on their board. Guess the click-bait writers there thought they needed to before it was just them posting to each other from all the people canceling their subscriptions.
 
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#478
#478
KBVol said:
Your opinion. Haney is a UT grad and well thought of journalist. Said the inspiration for doing the story was all the stuff that happened this season that fans were discussing since the App State game....why the slow starts, undisciplined play, poor physicality, untimely exits from PWill and Hurd, suspensions due to drug use, and finally, the bad losses to two inferior teams with the team's seasons goals on the line.

Said, since he's a UT grad, got on the phone and visited with a lot of contacts he has around the program and that's what he primarily got.....mainly all negative. Even said there was still some more harsh comments and criticisms that he didn't go with. Said he collected all the quotes, comments, information and shared/cross-referenced with others who cover the team at 24/7.

Everyone can certainly come to his or her own thoughts and conclusions. For me, he sounded awfully credible and, quite honestly, given what we saw from the team/program, it sure seemed to match up, especially the information regarding Jones' falling out with Lawson and what we subsequently saw on the field....if one was wondering how App State could physically dominate Tennessee at the line scrimmage, that would go a long way towards explaining it.

Bottom line, you don't believe him, no worries. For me, this is more a case of "where there's smoke there's fire"....we saw the smoke all year long...Haney is just verifying the fire IMO.
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It's not an "opinion". I know several current and former players
 
#482
#482
landscapingvol said:
It's not an "opinion". I know several current and former players
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And Haney said he spoke with approximately 20 people affiliated with the program and athletic department. He didn't say everybody hates the guy and wants him out.

As a matter of fact he went out of his way to say that even most of the people offering strong criticisms had good things to say about Butch the man and his intentions.

You perhaps know several current and former players who are good with Butch and where things stand with the program. But there's clearly several former players who aren't....to go along with several people within the program who see and have now expressed some pretty serious reservations with where Butch has taken the program at the moment.

We surely can all agree there are about to be some pretty extensive staff changes. Those things, at a minimum, wouldn't be happening if all was well. We all saw the issues on the field this year and scratched our collective heads....I sincerely believe the things Haney reported (and others have been grumbling about for awhile now) are the reasons for the failings of the team. Jmo.
 
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#483
#483
AM64 said:
Not that anybody might connect the Ole Miss fall to a program trying a bit too hard to compete in a conference with the likes of AL, and a coach attempting to do all he could (literally) to keep his job. It's possibly the minority position, but winning fewer games while building a program more slowly but legally beats sanctions and possibly vacated wins any day.
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This is a false dichotomy. You don't have to cheat to win big, and winning slowly doesn't mean you're still building toward 12-0 but just doing it "the right way." It's largely about the quality of the coach on the sidelines.
 
#484
#484
landscapingvol said:
So, let me get this straight he stopped by a diner to speak, and even though he didn't know you by your own admission, decided to confide in you. Then, he informed you that he was compiling a list of all the people that were against him. Was he stopping table by table and diner by diner to compile a giant list like Santa Clause of all the people who had wronged him? I bet he also has hours of video tape that he watches to see if anyone has given him the stink eye during a football game and compiles them on the list as well with the aid of the FBI.
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Confide? Read the post. He said all these things in a room of about 100 people.
 
#485
#485
vols4sure said:
Was today's article really a positive? It quoted ONE booster. The booster did not refute anything that was said in the previous article. "The verdict is still out" and "next year is his time to either show he has the leadership or not" is almost consistent with the previous article that essentially questioned his leadership abilities of the 2015 team.
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For reference though, it was a overnight reaction by one booster that reached out to Simmons... so that's why it was only "ONE" booster. He didn't seek anyone else out.

Kinda odd and click-baity for 247, but that's none of my business.
 
#486
#486
KBVol said:
No. what comments did you think were aimed at him?
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Read the article - it should be obvious. But I will help you out: There is this from an unnamed source:

“Certain guys had more of a voice than they deserve,” a source close to the team said. “Certain guys would become team captains even though they didn’t earn it. When that happens, it dissolves trust the rest of the team has in you.”

And then this

Also, sources said many of the players who were “coddled” are not returning. The sense is that a team with fewer stars “might actually play as a team.” But one source wanted to be clear that several Vols veterans in 2016, such as Dobbs and end Derek Barnett on defense, were quality leaders.

Look at who is missing.

He seems to have forgot that the TEAM, yes the TEAM voted on the captains.
 
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#487
#487
landscapingvol said:
It's not an "opinion". I know several current and former players
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Are the former ones named Hurd and Williams?

Seriously he mentions them but "makes excuses" for them. Yes I can see Preston Williams citing lack of targets - maybe that has something to do with him losing his playing time to the other WRs, who apparently were more willing to work of it.

And the comment about freshman's not putting forth the effort - well quite honestly freshman probably should be allowed to adjust to college life. I remember being a freshman and it can be a big adjustment for some.

You also have players who were the 'star' in high school. I'm sure some complain because everyone back home tells them they will be a "star" in college. Then they get to college and find out it is HARD work and that one has to work for what they want.

Some of this is a 'generation problem' some of this has been part of the process since the beginning of time. And if a reporter could get players at any school to talk you would hear the same things - players complaining because they have to work harder than so and so and so and so gets to play and I don't.

For some it is their way to make an excuse as to why they are not "making it". I'm sure they get folks back home asking .. well why aren't you playing - you are better than so and so who is.
 
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#489
#489
volfan102455 said:
Read the article - it should be obvious. But I will help you out: There is this from an unnamed source:

“Certain guys had more of a voice than they deserve,” a source close to the team said. “Certain guys would become team captains even though they didn’t earn it. When that happens, it dissolves trust the rest of the team has in you.”

And then this

Also, sources said many of the players who were “coddled” are not returning. The sense is that a team with fewer stars “might actually play as a team.” But one source wanted to be clear that several Vols veterans in 2016, such as Dobbs and end Derek Barnett on defense, were quality leaders.

Look at who is missing.

He seems to have forgot that the TEAM, yes the TEAM voted on the captains.
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Thanks for the snark, much appreciated. It was an honest question, you could've just quickly answered it.

I had forgotten that part of the article. Found that odd....don't think any of the named permanent captains this year didn't deserve it, including Alvin. And I don't think any of that falls on Jones....pretty sure it was voted on by the team/players.
 
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#490
#490
temptn said:
My cousin's brother-in-law's sister works at the Walmart there in Knoxville and she said the same thing. So there just as reliable source.
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A friend of my cousins sister-in-law's brother said she talked to a friend of her cousin's father at the same Walmart and she said the she overheard a woman who cleans the offices at the AD say your cousin's brother-in-law's sister doesn't know what she is talking about. :)
 
#491
#491
NashVol11 said:
This is a false dichotomy. You don't have to cheat to win big, and winning slowly doesn't mean you're still building toward 12-0 but just doing it "the right way." It's largely about the quality of the coach on the sidelines.
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No, you don't have to cheat to get to the correct endpoint, but when people are pressed to achieve goals that is often the common path. "Short cuts" and "cutting corners" are relatively common terms in our vocabulary; they may not be synonymous with all out cheating, but they also don't mean strict compliance with rules - take enough of them and you probably won't talk your way out of a problem.
 
#492
#492
KBVol said:
Thanks for the snark, much appreciated. It was an honest question, you could've just quickly answered it.

I had forgotten that part of the article. Found that odd....don't think any of the named permanent captains this year didn't deserve it, including Alvin. And I don't think any of that falls on Jones....pretty sure it was voted on by the team/players.
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I don't see any captains that didn't deserve it. Makes me think the unnamed source saying this quote sounded like Hurd. It is also why I don't care much for the article.
 
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#493
#493
volfan102455 said:
A friend of my cousins sister-in-law's brother said she talked to a friend of her cousin's father at the same Walmart and she said the she overheard a woman who cleans the offices at the AD say your cousin's brother-in-law's sister doesn't know what she is talking about. :)
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The bad part is his cousin IS his sister, therefore she is lying to herself!
 
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#494
#494
AM64 said:
No, you don't have to cheat to get to the correct endpoint, but when people are pressed to achieve goals that is often the common path. "Short cuts" and "cutting corners" are relatively common terms in our vocabulary; they may not be synonymous with all out cheating, but they also don't mean strict compliance with rules - take enough of them and you probably won't talk your way out of a problem.
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Most coaches who feel the need to cheat have been subpar coaches, IMO. Bending the rules is a little different, and has become somewhat part of the job, but for a good coach it's not as simple as "either cheat, or take a long time to win." I understand the point you're making, but I think there's another option where good coaches can win early and do it the right way. I also think it's possible to win slowly, but show progress (most notably, good decision-making skills) and avoid the hot seat.
 
#495
#495
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I don't see any captains that didn't deserve it. Makes me think the unnamed source saying this quote sounded like Hurd. It is also why I don't care much for the article.
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Hurd? He's no longer with the program. Haney specifically said he spoke with approximately 20 people who currently work within and/or are affiliated with the program.

I think it was a silly, ridiculous comment for someone to make regarding Alvin being undeserving of being named a captain. But not for one second do I think that isolated comment invalidates the rest of the article. As I've said earlier, most of what was said by his sources seems to match up with the issues we've seen manifest with this team all year long on the field IMO.
 
#497
#497
KBVol said:
Hurd? He's no longer with the program. Haney specifically said he spoke with approximately 20 people who currently work within and/or are affiliated with the program.

I think it was a silly, ridiculous comment for someone to make regarding Alvin being undeserving of being named a captain. But not for one second do I think that isolated comment invalidates the rest of the article. As I've said earlier, most of what was said by his sources seems to match up with the issues we've seen manifest with this team all year long on the field IMO.
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I agree some made sense. We were questioning wth was going on here long before that story came out.

I would probably just sit on a story if all my sources were unnamed. I know it happens but it just doesn't look good for the journalist as a reader imo. But, even if only one thing is true, I sure hope it gets fixed and quickly.
 
#499
#499
Rule #1 for amateur hack journalists: identify most passionate fan bases who's teams aren't winning as expected and push garbage out to get max effect on ranting posts.

Give me a break...don't see Ole Miss or Ark similar articles b/c they have about half the passionate fans as UT, therefore less impact on social media. Only reason UGA not in same boat is they are rationalizing they need 3 year rebuild from a coach that won 50 games over last 5 seasons he coached. We're an easy target.
 
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