Reasons to be negative about the 2017 season

#101
#101
jakez4ut said:
no it won't. not next year. and it's not the bowl that's the deciding factor. it has everything to do with situation and circumstance of this program right now. understanding that first, is primary to understanding why i think the way i do.

i'll say it one more time...i'm not saying "going to a bowl" is the standard at ut, and everything's fine if we do. if it were up to me, and it's not, i would have fired him after the Vandy game last season.

if you don't get the rest of what i'm saying, that's on you. i think i've made it pretty clear why i think the way i do regarding his status coming out of 2017.
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Currie pushed hard for Fulmer to be fired when he went 3-5 in the SEC after coming off a 6-2 season the year before, but you think that Butch would survive 2-6 after coming off 4-4 and having an overall losing record in the conference after five years?:crazy:
 
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#102
#102
BeardedVol said:
Currie pushed hard for Fulmer to be fired when he went 3-5 in the SEC after coming off a 6-2 season the year before, but you think that Butch would survive 2-6 after coming off 4-4 and having an overall losing record in the conference after five years?:crazy:
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yes, i do. and the record, at this point in time, has very little to do with it, barring some ridiculous 3 or 4 win season where the wheels completely fall off or theres' some ridiculous scandal that comes out that rocks the football program making it impossible for them not to fire him.

option 1, until there's an option 2, is to keep Butch Jones. there's zero chance Currie is going to step in to his office in april on day 1 with the notion that Butch Jones is going to have an ultimatum to deal with for the 2017 season.

and that reality has zero to do with what i think about CBJ and what should have already happened. it has everything to do with the administrative situation this program has been in the past year, and will be in for at least the next year.

you're still operating off some notion that there's this mythical standard of competition that's dictating these decisions. and there very well maybe...in the future. but right now....un uh. Currie would have to take office day 1 almost with the intent of firing CBJ. and that's not happening either.
 
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#104
#104
jakez4ut said:
yes, i do. and the record, at this point in time, has very little to do with it, barring some ridiculous 3 or 4 win season where the wheels completely fall off or theres' some ridiculous scandal that comes out that rocks the football program making it impossible for them not to fire him.

option 1, until there's an option 2, is to keep Butch Jones. there's zero chance Currie is going to step in to his office in april on day 1 with the notion that Butch Jones is going to have an ultimatum to deal with for the 2017 season.

and that reality has zero to do with what i think about CBJ and what should have already happened. it has everything to do with the administrative situation this program has been in the past year, and will be in for at least the next year.

you're still operating off some notion that there's this mythical standard of competition that's dictating these decisions. and there very well maybe...in the future. but right now....un uh. Currie would have to take office day 1 almost with the intent of firing CBJ. and that's not happening either.
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Its not like Currie doesn't have a clue what was going on before he came here. All he has to do is look at Butch's body of work up to this point. The fact is the Vols have lost at least a couple of games they should have won every single year Butch has been here. At some point, if you have any sort of expectations, you are going to expect a coach to find ways to pull upsets. And you certainly are going to expect a coach to win the games they are supposed to win. That has not happened under Butch's watch yet. I tend to think Butch has zero room for error this year. If we have another Vandy or USC like debacle he will probably be out the door.
 
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#105
#105
BeardedVol said:
Currie pushed hard for Fulmer to be fired when he went 3-5 in the SEC after coming off a 6-2 season the year before, but you think that Butch would survive 2-6 after coming off 4-4 and having an overall losing record in the conference after five years?:crazy:
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and that was at a time when things were a lot more stable in the athletic department, and the track record for Fulmer had already started the decline. and lest not also forget, that decision wasn't exactly popular with everyone that makes big donations and big decisions over there.

it's an apples to oranges comparison, when you look at the whole picture.

Bearded, i'll put it this way...if this were year 3-4 for Currie, then i'd be waayy more inclined to agree with you.

but given that if a decision like this were to be made, it'd be made 9 months in to the job....let's just say it's not Option 1.
 
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#106
#106
Longsufferingvol said:
Its not like Currie doesn't have a clue what was going on before he came here. All he has to do is look at Butch's body of work up to this point. The fact is the Vols have lost at least a couple of games they should have won every single year Butch has been here. At some point, if you have any sort of expectations, you are going to expect a coach to find ways to pull upsets. That has not happened under Butch's watch yet. I tend to think Butch has zero room for error this year. If we have another Vandy or USC like debacle he will probably be out the door.
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so, he should come in with pre-conceived notions, with an intent to fire the guy if he doesn't meet a certain threshold of wins. got it. "so, Butch, nice moves on the staff. nice rebuild job. if you don't win the East this year, we're done. have a nice off season."

expectations for the program have nothing to do with it, RIGHT NOW.

there's no way, if he has the option, that he's going to want to fire Butch Jones 9 months on the job.

and even if he did, i doubt seriously he could get everything he would need to make that decision aligned properly. and has volunteerhillbilly pointed out, there's a bigger picture that should also be considered regarding some of the other programs.

y'all are fooling yourselves if you think Currie is going to fire Butch Jones after the 2017 season for going 7-5 or 6-6 with a 4-4 or 3-5 SEC record, and going to another bowl.

should he be fired? yeah, i would. but i would have already done it, and we'd of already hired his replacement, and we'd of never even gotten to the point of all the staff changes.. but that's not what we're talking about, is it?
 
#107
#107
jakez4ut said:
so, he should come in with pre-conceived notions, with an intent to fire the guy if he doesn't meet a certain threshold of wins. got it. "so, Butch, nice moves on the staff. nice rebuild job. if you don't win the East this year, we're done. have a nice off season."

expectations for the program have nothing to do with it, RIGHT NOW.

there's no way, if he has the option, that he's going to want to fire Butch Jones 9 months on the job.

and even if he did, i doubt seriously he could get everything he would need to make that decision aligned properly. and has volunteerhillbilly pointed out, there's a bigger picture that should also be considered regarding some of the other programs.

y'all are fooling yourselves if you think Currie is going to fire Butch Jones after the 2017 season for going 7-5 or 6-6 with a 4-4 or 3-5 SEC record, and going to another bowl.

should he be fired? yeah, i would. but i would have already done it, and we'd of already hired his replacement, and we'd of never even gotten to the point of all the staff changes.. but that's not what we're talking about, is it?
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If the team regresses any this year, Currie will have no choice but to fire Butch. How can you believe it will be any other way? Another year of underachieving will hurt our recruiting even more and put us back in the pre-Butch Dooley days where the cupboard was bare. Butch has had ample time to show us something. You bring up his staff changes. If he can't win after this amount of time and with all the changes he has made he will never take UT to the next level. His narrative that "It takes 6 years to build a program" doesn't hold up when you look at Florida who hit rock bottom under Muschamp and won the East as soon as McElwain got there. Make no mistake, 2017 is do or die for Butch.
 
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#108
#108
Longsufferingvol said:
If the team regresses any this year, Currie will have no choice but to fire Butch. How can you believe it will be any other way? Another year of underachieving will hurt our recruiting even more and put us back in the pre-Butch Dooley days where the cupboard was bare. Butch has had ample time to show us something. You bring up his staff changes. If he can't win after this amount of time and with all the changes he has made he will never take UT to the next level. His narrative that "It takes 6 years to build a program" doesn't hold up when you look at Florida who hit rock bottom under Muschamp and won the East as soon as soon McElwain got there. Make no mistake, 2017 is do or die for Butch.
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seriously?:eek:lol: this is no fun when people don't read what you post.
 
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#109
#109
Another consideration based on a 6-6, 7-5 season is whether he'd have any suitors who'd pay him close to what we are and cover whatever buyout he has at that point? If I'm Coach Jones and I know 2018 is make a break and some Big10 or 12 school is willing to give me a nice multi-year deal, I'd have to think about it.
 
#111
#111
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Another consideration based on a 6-6, 7-5 season is whether he'd have any suitors who'd pay him close to what we are and cover whatever buyout he has at that point? If I'm Coach Jones and I know 2018 is make a break and some Big10 or 12 school is willing to give me a nice multi-year deal, I'd have to think about it.
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hm. i haven't considered that, but i don't think it's a realistic concern either. i don't know that another P5 school is going to swoop in and snatch him, and his buyout, up. tbh, that's the least of my concerns.
 
#112
#112
The big picture is that Butch has underachieved every year since he has been there. After 2017, he will have had 5 years to turn it around. If he cant win the East next year with all of the staff shakeups since he has been here, why would there be any reason to believe it would change in 2018?
 
#114
#114
Longsufferingvol said:
The big picture is that Butch has underachieved every year since he has been there. After 2017, he will have had 5 years to turn it around. If he cant win the East next year with all of the staff shakeups since he has been here, why would there be any reason to believe it would change in 2018?
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not what you think it is.......:thumbsup:
 
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#115
#115
99gator said:
You never know what Tennessee team you are going to get from game to game, half to half, hell, quarter to quarter.

There isn't anyone that can look at the good, the bad, and the ugly from last season and have it make sense.

And don't try with "injuries". Giving up 600+ yards to Kentucky and Missouri at home is damn near impossible.
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Thanks. I had purged that from my memories. Now....I've got the plunger back on my left ear.
 
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#116
#116
I agree that Currie wont step into the office on the first day planning on firing Butch. Having said that, his mood will change if we have more bad losses next year. Thats part of life, if you dont meet expectations there are consequences. I have been fired from a job for one mistake despite having a good track record in said job. Why are so many people acting is if it should be any different for coaches making millions? Scratch that, it should be different. They should be held to higher standards. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
 
#117
#117
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Another consideration based on a 6-6, 7-5 season is whether he'd have any suitors who'd pay him close to what we are and cover whatever buyout he has at that point? If I'm Coach Jones and I know 2018 is make a break and some Big10 or 12 school is willing to give me a nice multi-year deal, I'd have to think about it.
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play that out though, and would it be terrible? especially if it was a job thought to be 2nd tier to TN? someone else spends the money, you don't have the "messiness" of firing another coach, and you then put your AD hat on and go get another coach, and you don't have to live with the stigma of firing a guy that went to 4 straight bowls etc...

as i think about it, if CBJ were to leave after 2017, this is probably the best of both worlds, as far as exits go.
 
#118
#118
Longsufferingvol said:
I agree that Currie wont step into the office on the first day planning on firing Butch. Having said that, his mood will change if we have more bad losses next year. Thats part of life, if you dont meet expectations there are consequences. I have been fired from a job for one mistake despite having a good track record in said job. Why are so many people acting is if it should be any different for coaches making millions? Scratch that, it should be different. They should be held to higher standards. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
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set by who? fans? you? me? only Currie and Butch will know what the deal is, and for a single season, where you just hired 6 new coaches, and are potentially sending 6 players to the NFL, plus Sr. departures....and will have new faces all over the place....

i'd imagine the expectation level for this upcoming season, stand alone, isn't Atlanta or bust.

which is why i think he'll be perfectly safe headed in to 2018.
 
#120
#120
jakez4ut said:
set by who? fans? you? me? only Currie and Butch will know what the deal is, and for a single season, where you just hired 6 new coaches, and are potentially sending 6 players to the NFL, plus Sr. departures....and will have new faces all over the place....

i'd imagine the expectation level for this upcoming season, stand alone, isn't Atlanta or bust.

which is why i think he'll be perfectly safe headed in to 2018.
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The fan base sets the expectations. Unsuccessful programs dont fill stadiums or sell lots of merchandise which means less money for the big wigs at the University. Unsuccessful programs also struggle to get big time prospects to play for them. Winning is everything.
 
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#123
#123
Longsufferingvol said:
The fan base sets the expectations. Unsuccessful programs dont fill stadiums or sell lots of merchandise which means less money for the big wigs at the University. Unsuccessful programs also struggle to get big time prospects to play for them. Winning is everything.
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oh, ok, when are you having your meeting with CBJ? mine's in two weeks, and boy do i have a lot to get off my chest.:blink:
 
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#124
#124
Longsufferingvol said:
The fan base sets the expectations. Unsuccessful programs dont fill stadiums or sell lots of merchandise which means less money for the big wigs at the University. Unsuccessful programs also struggle to get big time prospects to play for them. Winning is everything.
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we can argue the merits of all this, but none of these things are "issues" presently.
 
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#125
#125
I get what Jake is saying. The situation in the administration caused by hiring Currie has made it harder for him to fire Butch after a 6-6/4-4 season. He has to get most of the boosters and people that don't like him on his side first to do that. Just not enough time in 9 months. At least that's what I understand.
I also get what you other guys are saying also,he needs/should be fired if there is no improvement in wins or win the East. I see that also.
In my opinion,Jake may be on to something. Unless the bottom falls out,losing 7 or more games or finishing 6th or 7th place in the division,the AD mayhave trouble replacing him.
 
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