Reasons to be negative about the 2017 season

#76
#76
BeardedVol said:
7-5, or 6-6 if five or more losses are conference games should get him fired. That should get pretty much any coach in the SEC fired. Given that it's year five and CBJ hasn't won more than 5 conference games in a single season since he left the MAC, he can't afford to regress at this point.
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Agreed, I just don't see us making a move until 2018 if things go to hell.
 
#77
#77
BeardedVol said:
7-5, or 6-6 if five or more losses are conference games should get him fired. That should get pretty much any coach in the SEC fired given that it's year five and CBJ hasn't won more than 5 conference games in a single season since he left the MAC.
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if/thens just don't work well with me. i can find a lot of reasons to fire him. but the ultimatum of if this, then that...doesn't allow for much context, good or bad.

5-3 isn't awful, and it wasn't really achievable the first two years. it should have been, and then some, last year.

and it may not be in '17 either, given the team we're fielding, and the relative competition on the schedule.

bowl game=2018. barring some really epic meltdown where there's literally no choice but to fire him. past that, we'll get to see what team 122 looks like with this staff, and that may not be a bad thing.:dunno:
 
#78
#78
zeppelin128 said:
I see 9-3 as the absolute ceiling, but 7-5 would not surprise me given our recent track record of blowing a game or two to lesser talented teams (freaking Vandy). I'm leaning 8-4 with losses to Bama, LSU, Georgia, and Florida. But I'm still not sure, there are just too many unknowns.
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Until I see CBJ not get out-coached by Will Muschamp, I'm not going to pencil USCe as a win.
 
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#79
#79
BeardedVol said:
Until I see CBJ not get out-coached by Will Muschamp, I'm not going to pencil USCe as a win.
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the only thing i've learned while CBJ has been here...take nothing for granted. we're just as apt to have a break out game like we did against FL last year, as we are to lay a stinker like we did against the likes of USCe and Vandy.

99gator siap...consistently inconsistent. that has to change, period.
 
#80
#80
jakez4ut said:
if/thens just don't work well with me. i can find a lot of reasons to fire him. but the ultimatum of if this, then that...doesn't allow for much context, good or bad.

5-3 isn't awful, and it wasn't really achievable the first two years. it should have been, and then some, last year.

and it may not be in '17 either, given the team we're fielding, and the relative competition on the schedule.

bowl game=2018. barring some really epic meltdown where there's literally no choice but to fire him. past that, we'll get to see what team 122 looks like with this staff, and that may not be a bad thing.:dunno:
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How was 5-3 not possible in 2013? We took GA to overtime, and we lost to Vandy 14-10. Same for 2014, we lost to GA 35-32, and to Florida 10-9, 5-3 was very possible that year as well. Just like last year, 6-2 was very possible, but...CBJ.

Getting to a bowl with 79 other FBS teams that manage to stay .500 or better is not an accomplishment, and keeping a coach around who is maintaining a middle of the pack conference placement is only going to hurt the program in the long term.

At some point, you have to start holding CBJ accountable for the product on the field. We're starting year five, there's no more good graces to hand out. CBJ can either coach at this level, or he can't, and if he can't it's time to go.
 
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#81
#81
zeppelin128 said:
Agreed, I just don't see us making a move until 2018 if things go to hell.
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If we see a 7-5 or 6-6 record with 3-5 SEC record, then we can kiss the 2018 4* in-state recruits goodbye, and probably any other out-of-state 4* or 5* players as well.

If things get bad and we screw around, we'll end up in another situation where we are shunned by any good coaches after CBJ is finally let go.
 
#82
#82
BeardedVol said:
How was 5-3 not possible in 2013? We took GA to overtime, and we lost to Vandy 14-10. Same for 2014, we lost to GA 35-32, and to Florida 10-9, 5-3 was very possible that year as well. Just like last year, 6-2 was very possible, but...CBJ.

Getting to a bowl with 79 other FBS teams that manage to stay .500 or better is not an accomplishment, and keeping a coach around who is maintaining a middle of the pack conference placement is only going to hurt the program in the long term.

At some point, you have to start holding CBJ accountable for the product on the field. We're starting year five, there's no more good graces to hand out. CBJ can either coach at this level, or he can't, and if he can't it's time to go.
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And if you'll recall, we might have beaten Florida in 2013 in the swamp if Jones hadn't kept Peterman in most of the game.
 
#84
#84
fade route said:
You make a living trying to pound me for being negative, and yet here you are as the first reply to a thread titled "Reasons to be negative about the 2017 season". Brilliant.
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No, I make a living protecting and serving the citizens of the county I live in. You are of zero importance to me. How was my post negative? I simply stated what my concerns me. You wonder why people can't stand you? This is why.
 
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#85
#85
BeardedVol said:
How was 5-3 not possible in 2013? We took GA to overtime, and we lost to Vandy 14-10. Same for 2014, we lost to GA 35-32, and to Florida 10-9, 5-3 was very possible that year as well. Just like last year, 6-2 was very possible, but...CBJ.

Getting to a bowl with 79 other FBS teams that manage to stay .500 or better is not an accomplishment, and keeping a coach around who is maintaining a middle of the pack conference placement is only going to hurt the program in the long term.

At some point, you have to start holding CBJ accountable for the product on the field. We're starting year five, there's no more good graces to hand out. CBJ can either coach at this level, or he can't, and if he can't it's time to go.
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i didn't say it was an accomplishment. and no one expected us to win 5 or more SEC tames in 13. the vandy game, was bad, and one of the more sobering moments regarding CBJ. but that said, i think most probably expected us to lose to USCe that year, and beat Vandy. we got the reverse, but in the end, that team wound up about how many, self included, thought it would.

and there's been no one to hold him accountable til now, and we have no idea what currie thinks of CBJ, but i think it's probably safe to say he's not coming in, in year one, and going to have a "put up or shut up" type conversation regarding 2017 season. not after making all these staff changes, and certainly not after being the only team in the SEC that is on a 3 bowl game win streak....despite what i think, you think, and many of us think, there are actually a lot of positives that anyone can point to and justify another year after 2017....easily.

i agree about the 2018 class, especially the in state talent. i think it's important that this season be that 8-4/7-5 type season at worst, maintain what you have been doing, in a transition year, and then go sign another great class....it's there for him to do with as much good in state talent there is this cycle.

then you get 2018, staff stability, AD stability, what should be a really talented and experienced team, with a pretty decent schedule to navigate. the ooc is very manageable, and i'm not sure who we draw from the West in 18, it's not out of the realm of possibility to reasonably expect 10 wins, and a possible trip to ATL.

if it's a repeat of what we saw this past season, then i think you're to the point where this isn't going to work out.

and again, i do think a lot of this scenario is due to the fact of how the AD situation has played out. he's getting an opportunity to start it all over, again.

if it were me, i'd of fired him after the Vandy game this past season. but it's not, so my commentary is really just based on what i see situationally and the circumstances the program are in currently.:thumbsup:
 
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#87
#87
I_Bleed_Orange77 said:
No, I make a living protecting and serving the citizens of the county I live in. You are of zero importance to me. How was my post negative? I simply stated what my concerns me. You wonder why people can't stand you? This is why.
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Thank you for your service.
 
#88
#88
If you have to create a thread to list out the reasons to be optomistic about the 2017 season, that tells me that the common outlook is not that good.

So we dont really need a thread to point out what everone knows to be true and has already listed in the other 40 threads about the 2017 season.
 
#89
#89
volfannbama said:
If you have to create a thread to list out the reasons to be optomistic about the 2017 season, that tells me that the common outlook is not that good.

So we dont really need a thread to point out what everone knows to be true and has already listed in the other 40 threads about the 2017 season.
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actually, good point.:thumbsup:
 
#90
#90
im just negative because my back yard is filled with wild and crazy Spring Breakers for like 3 weeks, oh but this is about our Vols, I have no reason to BE negative....i am sure once the season starts in 168 days, we will get our fair share of negativity even if we went undefeated......this is volnation after all...
 
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#92
#92
jakez4ut said:
agreed....that and who the heck is this AD going to hire? how is he going to get everyone on the same page about a) firing jones and b) hiring the next guy? that's a lot that would have to happen in, really the next 9-10 months.

for Jones to get fired after '17, it'd have to be such an epic meltdown, that there literally isn't a choice but to fire him.

and while i'm fairly pessimistic about '17, i don't see this team being dreadfully bad either.
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Good point. I don't see time being the issue, it's getting the boosters to agree to it while over half disliking you as the AD in the first place.
 
#93
#93
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Good point. I don't see time being the issue, it's getting the boosters to agree to it while over half disliking you as the AD in the first place.
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either way, it'll take longer than the next 9 months to mend those bridges and get everyone on the same page.

i just think it's a lot to ask of a brand new AD, to fire a guy that's biggest sin is not winning enough. (even if i think we should, the situation and circumstances don't align very well for it).

something would have to happen to make it all but impossible to keep him, and to be honest, i definitely don't want that.

where we are now, i'm to the point where i want to see how this 2018 cycle goes, and where we finish in 2018.

by then, there just won't be any where else to hide, good or bad, and circumstance and situation will have changed from an accountability standpoint.
 
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#94
#94
landscapingvol said:
Why would anyone LOOK for reasons to be negative?? That's the problem in and of itself for some of you. You are miserable dolts.
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Well we're passionate Vol fans and haven't won a SECC since 98 and constantly being kicked in the groin. ...so.

What is a concern to us...must be negative to others. I dunno
 
#95
#95
jakez4ut said:
i didn't say it was an accomplishment. and no one expected us to win 5 or more SEC tames in 13. the vandy game, was bad, and one of the more sobering moments regarding CBJ. but that said, i think most probably expected us to lose to USCe that year, and beat Vandy. we got the reverse, but in the end, that team wound up about how many, self included, thought it would.

and there's been no one to hold him accountable til now, and we have no idea what currie thinks of CBJ, but i think it's probably safe to say he's not coming in, in year one, and going to have a "put up or shut up" type conversation regarding 2017 season. not after making all these staff changes, and certainly not after being the only team in the SEC that is on a 3 bowl game win streak....despite what i think, you think, and many of us think, there are actually a lot of positives that anyone can point to and justify another year after 2017....easily.

i agree about the 2018 class, especially the in state talent. i think it's important that this season be that 8-4/7-5 type season at worst, maintain what you have been doing, in a transition year, and then go sign another great class....it's there for him to do with as much good in state talent there is this cycle.

then you get 2018, staff stability, AD stability, what should be a really talented and experienced team, with a pretty decent schedule to navigate. the ooc is very manageable, and i'm not sure who we draw from the West in 18, it's not out of the realm of possibility to reasonably expect 10 wins, and a possible trip to ATL.

if it's a repeat of what we saw this past season, then i think you're to the point where this isn't going to work out.

and again, i do think a lot of this scenario is due to the fact of how the AD situation has played out. he's getting an opportunity to start it all over, again.

if it were me, i'd of fired him after the Vandy game this past season. but it's not, so my commentary is really just based on what i see situationally and the circumstances the program are in currently.:thumbsup:
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You said in your previous post "bowl game=2018", we could be 6-6 overall and 2-6 in the SEC and still make it to some crappy 3rd tier bowl. So no, getting to a bowl game is not an accomplishment that warrants automatically giving CBJ another year. Hell, even getting to a bowl three years in a row is not a great accomplishment in modern college football, all you have to do is at least break even three years in a row

Why should UT have any issues being at least 6-6 every year? When should we not be in a bowl game under a decent coach? Is that where we are lowing expectations to now?

Whether anyone expected UT to win five SEC games in 2013 or 2014, doesn't change the fact that it was very possible. The fact that we didn't are just more examples of CBJ not capitalizing on finding a way to win when it's within his grasp.
 
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#96
#96
BeardedVol said:
You said in your previous post "bowl game=2018"
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and i stand by that.
, we could be 6-6 overall and 2-6 in the SEC and still make it to some crappy 3rd tier bowl. So no, getting to a bowl game is not an accomplishment that warrants automatically giving CBJ another year.
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i didn't say that getting to the bowl was the ONLY qualifier' the situation and circumstance we're currently in administratively makes it way too easy, though, to equate one with the other.

Hell, even getting to a bowl three years in a row is not a great accomplishment in modern college football, all you have to do is at least break even three years in a row
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again, didn't say it was some great accomplishment, just that with a 1st year AD, that would be forced to make such a decision w/in his 1st 9 months on the job isn't going to look to fire a guy that goes to, and wins 4 bowls in a row, especially when the 4th one is a transition year, both on the sidelines and administratively.

Why should UT have any issues being at least 6-6 every year? When should we not be in a bowl game under a decent coach? Is that where we are lowing expectations to now?
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read what i posted. this is not what i'm saying.

Whether anyone expected UT to win five SEC games in 2013 or 2014, doesn't change the fact that it was very possible. The fact that we didn't are just more examples of CBJ not capitalizing on finding a way to win when it's within his grasp.
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no disagreement. getting to 6-6 in 13 and going to a bowl would have been a nice cap to a season that had a signature win against maybe the best USCe team they ever had. all i was getting at, was prior to the season, 6-6 was the ceiling for that team.

Bearded, all i've done is separate what i think from what the reality is. and there's no way, if given the option, this new AD is looking to fire his football coach in less than a year on the job. the only way he's firing Butch Jones is if he makes it utterly impossible NOT to fire him. and that's just not going to happen. and he's certainly not going to have a conversation that goes anything like "butch, if you don't win the EASt, you're fired". ain't happening.

so, i circle back to: go to a bowl, c ya in 2018.
 
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#97
#97
BeardedVol said:
You said in your previous post "bowl game=2018", we could be 6-6 overall and 2-6 in the SEC and still make it to some crappy 3rd tier bowl. So no, getting to a bowl game is not an accomplishment that warrants automatically giving CBJ another year. Hell, even getting to a bowl three years in a row is not a great accomplishment in modern college football, all you have to do is at least break even three years in a row

Why should UT have any issues being at least 6-6 every year? When should we not be in a bowl game under a decent coach? Is that where we are lowing expectations to now?

Whether anyone expected UT to win five SEC games in 2013 or 2014, doesn't change the fact that it was very possible. The fact that we didn't are just more examples of CBJ not capitalizing on finding a way to win when it's within his grasp.
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Miss State went to a bowl at 5-7. So technically you don't have to break even. I hate to give fuel to this thread with such a bad name but I think we are down to the last 1-2 seasons in Jones's tenure barring a miracle. I agree with Jake's post in principle although I think it's clear that we could easily go into Fall 2018 with Holly, Butch, and Barnes all on in a legitimate do or die hot seat situation. Do the major boosters and the AD really want to put themselves in that position? Probably not. Barnes probably has the best chance for a major turnaround and firing Holly will generate the most blowback. The way I read the stars, Butch better win the East this year.
 
#98
#98
jakez4ut said:
and i stand by that.
i didn't say that getting to the bowl was the ONLY qualifier' the situation and circumstance we're currently in administratively makes it way too easy, though, to equate one with the other.

again, didn't say it was some great accomplishment, just that with a 1st year AD, that would be forced to make such a decision w/in his 1st 9 months on the job isn't going to look to fire a guy that goes to, and wins 4 bowls in a row, especially when the 4th one is a transition year, both on the sidelines and administratively.

read what i posted. this is not what i'm saying.

no disagreement. getting to 6-6 in 13 and going to a bowl would have been a nice cap to a season that had a signature win against maybe the best USCe team they ever had. all i was getting at, was prior to the season, 6-6 was the ceiling for that team.

Bearded, all i've done is separate what i think from what the reality is. and there's no way, if given the option, this new AD is looking to fire his football coach in less than a year on the job. the only way he's firing Butch Jones is if he makes it utterly impossible NOT to fire him. and that's just not going to happen. and he's certainly not going to have a conversation that goes anything like "butch, if you don't win the EASt, you're fired". ain't happening.

so, i circle back to: go to a bowl, c ya in 2018.
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A 7-6 record, with a 2-6 SEC record will see Butch Jones fired, regardless of the fact that he got the vols to a 4th bowl in a row.
 
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#99
#99
BeardedVol said:
A 7-6 record, with a 2-6 SEC record will see Butch Jones fired, regardless of the fact that he got the vols to a 4th bowl in a row.
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no it won't. not next year. and it's not the bowl that's the deciding factor. it has everything to do with situation and circumstance of this program right now. understanding that first, is primary to understanding why i think the way i do.

i'll say it one more time...i'm not saying "going to a bowl" is the standard at ut, and everything's fine if we do. if it were up to me, and it's not, i would have fired him after the Vandy game last season.

if you don't get the rest of what i'm saying, that's on you. i think i've made it pretty clear why i think the way i do regarding his status coming out of 2017.
 
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#100
#100
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Miss State went to a bowl at 5-7. So technically you don't have to break even. I hate to give fuel to this thread with such a bad name but I think we are down to the last 1-2 seasons in Jones's tenure barring a miracle. I agree with Jake's post in principle although I think it's clear that we could easily go into Fall 2018 with Holly, Butch, and Barnes all on in a legitimate do or die hot seat situation. Do the major boosters and the AD really want to put themselves in that position? Probably not. Barnes probably has the best chance for a major turnaround and firing Holly will generate the most blowback. The way I read the stars, Butch better win the East this year.
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that's certainly a bigger picture view, worth consideration. though i'd say it'd be hard for me to think they'd prioritize the Lady Vols over football. meaning if it came down to "you can keep Holly or Butch, pick one", i have a feeling who'd get the axe right away.

i think Barnes has a little more time, only because he's in a similar position Butch was in when he came in. the bball program is not in great shape, and he's the 3rd coach in, what, 4 years....i think they'd err on the side of stability there. Holly hasn't been very good, and Butch hasn't sunk to Dooley level performance. so, if i had to wager, Holly is probably the one on the thinnest ice, if there is thin ice anywhere right now over there.
 
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