*****NATIONAL SIGNING DAY on VolNation

#126
#126
MWAVolfan said:
Math and numbers generally win out. But I am certainly willing to come back here in 2 years and revisit the subject once the hard data backs up the rankings.
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Remember when the pumpers said Butch's 1st season was bad because Dooley recruited too many 3* players?

I do
 
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#127
#127
MWAVolfan said:
Well thought out. I'm tired of people talking about 5* players being a "bust" they are only a bust if they weren't coached properly.
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There are many things that can determine that a player is a "bust". First, is the definition of "bust". Typically, that would involve anticipated on-field performance.

That anticipation is created by a subjective rating before a player ever plays the first college down.

Some "busts" occur when the player is rated.

Some "busts" occur due to off-the-field issues.

Some "busts" occur due to character issues.

Some "busts" occur due to the player's intellectual ability.

Some "busts" occur due to a change in player personnel and/or scheme.

Some "busts" occur when a coaching staff lacks the ability to improve a players ability.

Many factors go into whether or not a player is a "bust".

It is just like in your job. It is not always the boss's fault if you don't succeed to the level of someone else's expectation for you.
 
#128
#128
KBVol said:
What's amazing is all I've heard recently is how much Florida's class sucks, McElwain's lazy, can't get anybody to commit there this year and even though our class doesn't meet expectations this year, at least it ain't Florida's......well, Florida's class just finished two spots higher than us according to 247 despite having 7 fewer players in the class. Ugh.
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And Florida will add another 4-star RB Adarius Lemons later on, so they may climb another spot or two in to the top 10 (currently at 11). Florida absolutely cleaned up on DB's and DT's. Helluva close by McElwain, although missing the 2-3 5-star kids that Florida is used to. Most Gator fans are thrilled he salvaged a top 10/11 class.
 
#129
#129
MWAVolfan said:
Math and numbers generally win out. But I am certainly willing to come back here in 2 years and revisit the subject once the hard data backs up the rankings.
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Yes, it may take 2 years to determine if the speculation prove out.

Some ratings will prove to be accurate and some won't.

It is more about the speculation than the math.

Hopefully, we both agree that we support this program.
 
#130
#130
I'm waiting for someone to blame the critical posts made here on VolNation for this lackluster class.
Wait... That won't happen because it would mean they would have to admit this class is subpar and that's a little too close to being negative for some.
 
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#131
#131
Hubbard said:
There are many things that can determine that a player is a "bust". First, is the definition of "bust". Typically, that would involve anticipated on-field performance.

That anticipation is created by a subjective rating before a player ever plays the first college down.

Some "busts" occur when the player is rated.

Some "busts" occur due to off-the-field issues.

Some "busts" occur due to character issues.

Some "busts" occur due to the player's intellectual ability.

Some "busts" occur due to a change in player personnel and/or scheme.

Some "busts" occur when a coaching staff lacks the ability to improve a players ability.

Many factors go into whether or not a player is a "bust".

It is just like in your job. It is not always the boss's fault if you don't succeed to the level of someone else's expectation for you.
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I would just add that all of those factors with the exception maybe of intellectual abilities can be laid at the feet of the coach. It's the coaches job to see the players for who they are and to separate the wheat from the chaff and run a clean program with a staff that can coach up Every player no matter their star rating. Unlike your job analogy football programs are different. The coach hand picks his staff and his players. But like your job analogy if my boss continues to pick underperforming workers then his boss is going to come looking for him and wonder what the heck his problem is with getting good employees.
 
#132
#132
MWAVolfan said:
Is it a bad time to bring up that Dooley had 2 recruiting classes better than this and with fewer players?
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Ok, 1.last.time.
Recruiting rankings are based on 18-20 players. We could have added 30 more (if legal) and it stays the exact same.
None of your many posts carrying on about the number of players vs ranking are relevant what so ever.

Dooley, as many here, shot for stars in the skill position. Turns out, fb teams also need people in the trenches and the majority of Dooleys high stars were busts. Grab those Dools classes and pit them against our last 2 and I would lay money down on the outcome.
 
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#133
#133
Doyle Hargraves said:
I'm waiting for someone to blame the critical posts made here on VolNation for this lackluster class.
Wait... That won't happen because it would mean they would have to admit this class is subpar and that's a little too close to being negative for some.
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No no, it's already been done. Apparently recruits are reading this stuff right now.
 
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#134
#134
chargervol said:
Ok, 1.last.time.
Recruiting rankings are based on 18-20 players. We could have added 30 more (if legal) and it stays the exact same.
None of your many posts carrying on about the number of players vs ranking are relevant what so ever.

Dooley, as many here, shot for stars in the skill position. Turns out, fb teams also need people in the trenches and the majority of Dooleys high stars were busts. Grab those Dools classes and pit them against our last 2 and I would lay money down on the outcome.
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OK. I'll play.....

If Dooley's team played Butch's team it would be a 73 to 72 win for Butch and both teams would set offensive records on the piss poor defense. Butch would blow a 21 point 4th quarter lead but on the last play of the game Dooley would get a penalty for too many men on the field and wind up losing.
 
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#135
#135
This class reminds me of the last two lackluster classes that Phil had recruited in the swan song of his career. I thought that the "win now" season was going to be in 2018 due to staff turnover, star player attrition, and breaking in a new QB for 2017. However, I think this recruiting slide is going to put a ton of pressure for Butch and company to produce big results on the field in 2017.
 
#136
#136
Doyle Hargraves said:
I'm waiting for someone to blame the critical posts made here on VolNation for this lackluster class.
Wait... That won't happen because it would mean they would have to admit this class is subpar and that's a little too close to being negative for some.
Click to expand...

MWAVolfan said:
No no, it's already been done. Apparently recruits are reading this stuff right now.
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Lol, you guys are too much.
 
#138
#138
Behr said:
Lol, you guys are too much.
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I've already spoken directly to Trey today explaining how bad this recruiting class is and how he should have signed with someone else and all us fans are just negative and it's just not worth it.
 
#139
#139
MWAVolfan said:
OK. I'll play.....

If Dooley's team played Butch's team it would be a 73 to 72 win for Butch and both teams would set offensive records on the piss poor defense. Butch would blow a 21 point 4th quarter lead but on the last play of the game Dooley would get a penalty for too many men on the field and wind up losing.
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Funny.
Also has nothing to do with your ranking comments, which was the point. Do you get it yet?
Also should have added (even though I explained this earlier but you still seem to be confused about) you are also wrong on the average stars. When you add more players at the bottom end, that brings down your average star rating. Dooley should have had higher rank stars with fewer players, that's how it works.

And we honestly covered all of this earlier. Either you have serious learning issues or you know you're intentionally misleading. I'll leave it up to you to determine which.
 
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#142
#142
MWAVolfan said:
I would just add that all of those factors with the exception maybe of intellectual abilities can be laid at the feet of the coach. It's the coaches job to see the players for who they are and to separate the wheat from the chaff and run a clean program with a staff that can coach up Every player no matter their star rating. Unlike your job analogy football programs are different. The coach hand picks his staff and his players. But like your job analogy if my boss continues to pick underperforming workers then his boss is going to come looking for him and wonder what the heck his problem is with getting good employees.
Click to expand...

Ranking (in which you have determined the may "be the worst class") is not made by the coaches.

No one can accurately determine what mistakes a college student is going to make off the field.

Coaches cannot predict if and when a player will be hurt.

And, my scenario focuses on the employee rather than the boss. Your inclination seems to blame the boss for everything.

What is your win/loss expectation for Butch this year?

Of course, to answer you must use some speculation.
 
#143
#143
Hubbard said:
Ranking (in which you have determined the may "be the worst class") is not made by the coaches.

No one can accurately determine what mistakes a college student is going to make off the field.

Coaches cannot predict if and when a player will be hurt.

And, my scenario focuses on the employee rather than the boss. Your inclination seems to blame the boss for everything.

What is your win/loss expectation for Butch this year?

Of course, to answer you must use some speculation.
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Wait... Do you want my expectation of how many games they should win or what I think will actually happen?
 
#144
#144
MWAVolfan said:
I should just become a Bama fan so all my negativity will destroy their program.
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I'll buy you a hat if you will.

Seriously though, it is easy to be negative for the sake of wanting better.

Today may not be as great as you want but talking about how bad you think it is will not make it better.

Be supportive and let the numbers/math at the end of the season speak for themselves.
 
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#145
#145
MWAVolfan said:
I've already spoken directly to Trey today explaining how bad this recruiting class is and how he should have signed with someone else and all us fans are just negative and it's just not worth it.
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Doesn't surprise me.

And you can understand that in whichever of the 3 ways I meant it.
 
#146
#146
VolsnRavens said:
I understand your point. And I do agree mostly. But there are a lot of 4 and 5 star players who just don't pan out. So I do think a lot is player development and coaching at the college level.
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So do you think we have that right now?
 
#147
#147
MWAVolfan said:
Wait... Do you want my expectation of how many games they should win or what I think will actually happen?
Click to expand...

Heck, I don't want to make this too complicated, but, give both a try.

If you feel up to it, figure how many wins will make you happy.
 
#148
#148
Doyle Hargraves said:
I'm waiting for someone to blame the critical posts made here on VolNation for this lackluster class.
Wait... That won't happen because it would mean they would have to admit this class is subpar and that's a little too close to being negative for some.
Click to expand...

I'm to blame

I wield greater power than I first thought
 
#149
#149
MWAVolfan said:
I should just become a Bama fan so all my negativity will destroy their program.
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If we start a gofundme page for you, how much will it take and how quickly will you get your donkey over to Tuscaloosa?
 
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