Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

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#7,176
#7,176
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Swain is making a lot of sense on twitter. I'm beginning to come around more to the idea of promoting Z or Scott. It is dangerous to bring in a guy with a new scheme and have the players try and learn it and also the coach get acquainted with the players he's working with. I don't think there is anything wrong with the plays, it was the predictability with Debord and his conservative nature that held the offense back at times. A guy like Z or Scott who already knows the playbook and the players can go fast and be aggressive. Maybe promoting from within and adding a great QB coach may be the best option in this scenario.
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I think it will be Scott and they'll add a QB coach. It was said Scott had a big influence on the offence scheme wise this year. Some of the wrinkles were Scott's. I think we get a new OL coach and DB coach and that's it.
 
#7,178
#7,178
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Swain is making a lot of sense on twitter. I'm beginning to come around more to the idea of promoting Z or Scott. It is dangerous to bring in a guy with a new scheme and have the players try and learn it and also the coach get acquainted with the players he's working with. I don't think there is anything wrong with the plays, it was the predictability with Debord and his conservative nature that held the offense back at times. A guy like Z or Scott who already knows the playbook and the players can go fast and be aggressive. Maybe promoting from within and adding a great QB coach may be the best option in this scenario.
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Fit is important, just like CBJ said. Anyone can look at it anyway they want, but promoting Z or Scott is a huge gamble. Neither has noteworthy experience as an OC. We can find a "fit" by looking outside the current staff because the system overall isn't going to change.
 
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#7,179
#7,179
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Swain is making a lot of sense on twitter. I'm beginning to come around more to the idea of promoting Z or Scott. It is dangerous to bring in a guy with a new scheme and have the players try and learn it and also the coach get acquainted with the players he's working with. I don't think there is anything wrong with the plays, it was the predictability with Debord and his conservative nature that held the offense back at times. A guy like Z or Scott who already knows the playbook and the players can go fast and be aggressive. Maybe promoting from within and adding a great QB coach may be the best option in this scenario.
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In this scenario I would probably go with Scott over Coach Z. While the PPG are pretty similar as 2015, we had a much more balanced attack this year. Since Scott was the lone change on the offensive side of the ball, I'm giving him credit for the better production.
 
#7,180
#7,180
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Swain is making a lot of sense on twitter. I'm beginning to come around more to the idea of promoting Z or Scott. It is dangerous to bring in a guy with a new scheme and have the players try and learn it and also the coach get acquainted with the players he's working with. I don't think there is anything wrong with the plays, it was the predictability with Debord and his conservative nature that held the offense back at times. A guy like Z or Scott who already knows the playbook and the players can go fast and be aggressive. Maybe promoting from within and adding a great QB coach may be the best option in this scenario.
Click to expand...
Swain also said the CB hire is more important than OC hire lol


I like what Swain brings to the table as far as speaking from his own experience as a player and relating that to what he thinks the team and the players are or should be going through.


When it comes to Xs and Os or big picture staff type stuff, I don't think his analysis is usually that strong
 
#7,181
#7,181
InVOLuntary said:
I think it will be Scott and they'll add a QB coach. It was said Scott had a big influence on the offence scheme wise this year. Some of the wrinkles were Scott's. I think we get a new OL coach and DB coach and that's it.
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Implementing some 2 TE sets and some pre-snap disguises with motions in the backfield are not enough to convince me he should be the guy. JMO. Not a whole lot changed with the schemes.
 
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#7,182
#7,182
InVOLuntary said:
I think it will be Scott and they'll add a QB coach. It was said Scott had a big influence on the offence scheme wise this year. Some of the wrinkles were Scott's. I think we get a new OL coach and DB coach and that's it.
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Yeah. I think Scott would be more generally accepted. Folks Z hate in the past would keep them from accepting him as OC. Scott might not be bad if he was the one that helped tweak the scheme. The question remains if he can call plays or not? If he is able to gameplan then hopefully he can develop his play calling. It is gutsy no matter which way we go. Outside guy requires some tweaks but an inside guy is a question mark at the play calling duties. I wouldn't want to be in Butch's shoes.
 
#7,184
#7,184
I don't care about the system. Our offense is fine. What we need is assistants that will improve our recruiting. That's where Helfrich would make his money (over Debord).
 
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#7,185
#7,185
I understand not wanting to redo the entire offense, that usually spells disaster- I think some of us wouldn't have been as upset if we hadn't been teased with the possibility of Helfrich. Just like when we were teased with Gruden. It's just another opportunity to upgrade and Butch doesn't do it. Hopefully LWS is right and Blackburn will be hired in the end to give us some hope going forward.
 
#7,187
#7,187
LynxVol said:
Implementing some 2 TE sets and some pre-snap disguises with motions in the backfield are not enough to convince me he should be the guy. JMO. Not a whole lot changed with the schemes.
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This is what I'm thinking. Scott might turn out to be a great OC, but should his first crack at the job be here? Really?

Basically same argument to a lesser extent with Azzani.
 
#7,188
#7,188
Darth_Shiveman said:
Swain also said the CB hire is more important than OC hire lol


I like what Swain brings to the table as far as speaking from his own experience as a player and relating that to what he thinks the team and the players are or should be going through.


When it comes to Xs and Os or big picture staff type stuff, I don't think his analysis is usually that strong
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Is he wrong tho? If the offense isn't changing and Butch still has a say in the playcalling, OC hire won't change much. But our DB coaching has been horrid. We need major improvement there
 
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#7,189
#7,189
I'm inclined to agree that the DB hire may be more important than the OC hire, if we hire the right "fit" as an OC. Our CB play has just been bad, and it's not like we don't have talent at the position. I like Shoop's aggressiveness, but I get nervous when our CB's are caught in one on one situations. We give up way too many big plays.
 
#7,190
#7,190
LynxVol said:
Implementing some 2 TE sets and some pre-snap disguises with motions in the backfield are not enough to convince me he should be the guy. JMO. Not a whole lot changed with the schemes.
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Not saying I agree with it but this fits with Butch's MO. This is the "In the Box" hire that I would expect from him on the offensive side of the ball.
 
#7,191
#7,191
BruinVol said:
If we hire within who do you guys prefer?

Cza is my pick. Scott makes no sense to me
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If we're hiring from within, I prefer we just say screw it and make Scott or Shoop Interim HC so Blackburn can spend a whole year choosing the guy he wants to roll with.





Ok, maybe that's too extreme. I'm sure both of those guys have it in them to succeed, but damn! The lack of OC experience there is very, very troubling.
 
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#7,193
#7,193
BruinVol said:
If we hire within who do you guys prefer?

Cza is my pick. Scott makes no sense to me
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What is the basis for the pick?

I cited improved offensive balance under Scott as my basis for choosing him, but I'm open to being convinced.
 
#7,195
#7,195
LynxVol said:
I'm inclined to agree that the DB hire may be more important than the OC hire, if we hire the right "fit" as an OC. Our CB play has just been bad, and it's not like we don't have talent at the position. I like Shoop's aggressiveness, but I get nervous when our CB's are caught in one on one situations. We give up way too many big plays.
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The departure of Terry Fair was when our DB play started to suffer. We definitely need to make a change. TF would be great but only if Shoop signs off. We need good coaching and good recruiting. Whoever can bring that should get the nod. Hopefully Shoop is on it like stink on poop.
 
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#7,196
#7,196
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Is he wrong tho? If the offense isn't changing and Butch still has a say in the playcalling, OC hire won't change much. But our DB coaching has been horrid. We need major improvement there
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Coordinator hires are almost always more important than position coach hires.


Especially in this case since Shoop spends so much time working with Safeties anyway. New guy will basically just be working with CBs and NBs. And whoever we hire there will undoubtedly have experience in that position.


The new OC will be calling plays and may or may not be able to bring a perspective on how to enhance the offense and may not have any experience playcalling or as an OC.
 
#7,197
#7,197
IMO, I don't think Helfrich coming would change the scheme that much. He doesn't necessarily have his "own" system that he runs at all his stops. The offense he ran with Chip was Chip's offense, he just helped run it and brought in different elements to that scheme that he thought would improve it. He could do the same thing here.

I think the biggest thing would be getting acquainted to our players and figuring out how to use their skill sets. He could keep the playbook very similar and just add in a few different elements that would improve or enhance the offense.

I have a feeling we don't get Helfrich though. I think Chip Kelly getting fired threw a wrench in that plan.
 
#7,199
#7,199
InVOLuntary said:
Not saying I agree with it but this fits with Butch's MO. This is the "In the Box" hire that I would expect from him on the offensive side of the ball.
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We just may have to accept that the OC hire won't be some big name coach. I was impressed with CBJ getting Shoop, but the overall offense isn't going to change. Butch probably won't want to bring in anyone that will want to do their own thing.
 
#7,200
#7,200
I don't want to hire an OC that had to be babysat as a position coach.

If we are hiring from within I guess we just have to trust CBJ is making the right choice between the two. Not a lot of OC experience between the two. But Tee Martin didn't have OC experience until he did.

This is a big hire.
 
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