I think some of you seriously misunderstand Butch

[EZE]

Same as in the latter Fulmer days. There was a reason he was let go. This is it!

How did that work out?

 

[BeardedVol]

How did that work out?

So...because Lane Kiffin jumped ship, and Hamilton hired Dooley, who was terrible, Butch Jones should be retained, regardless of how he performs, for the fear of hiring another Kiffin, or another Dooley?

Wow... That's some terrible logic either way.

 

['Boro-vol]

Started bashing the Maryville College program yet ?

Why would I? They hired a winner.

Personal shot is duly noted though.

 

[Top Gun]

And THIS is the MOST illegitimate rationale for excusing Jones of all. If your standard is "better than Dooley" then we simply don't have the same standard. I believe UT's standard should be championships.... not "better than" a historically bad coach.

He's beaten 3 Big 10 West teams in bowls... in each of those games because a win was left on the field during the regular season UT faced an overmatched opponent.

There have been a lot of "hot messes" that coaches have taken over. Ole Miss was. USCe was and still is. Vandy when Franklin arrived? There's a pretty long list of coaches who overachieved after taking over "messes".

Michigan was a mess which is instructive. They hired, and fired, a couple of coaches before finding one who met their standard. They apparently felt winning provided more stability than keeping the same coach.

There are no excuses for either of those games... and looking at TAM now... UT shouldn't have lost that one either.



And there's another big problem. UT being "decimated" by injuries is not a new problem under Jones. Whether it is recruiting injury prone players, poor development, poor player rotation, practice methods, or something else... Jones has failed to fix a major and persistent problem. In the previous two years, a disproportionate number of injuries occurred during August. This year, there were even more injuries with most coming during the season.

This is not "luck". It is something different that UT is doing compared to other programs.

We all get it, you are done with Butch. Now let's get on with reality. He has brought us back from embarrassment to "having a chance" against anyone but Tide. Most of us think we can still improve under Butch. You don't, let's move on.

 

[Volfreak1964]

If we could clone the General some of you all would still be complaining!

 

[QuickSmurf]

When he stops regularly losing to teams he shouldn't lose to we'll talk.

Until then he's a career 8.7 wpy coach, who is in over his head in the SEC. The used car salesman justifications don't help his case, and just expose him as not big enough for this job.

A bit over exaggeration. He's not consistently lost to teams he should win. That is your own narrow mindedness. Just because we did not win 10,11,12 games this year doesn't mean that Butch can't. That's what is irritating. The irrational illogical and unfactual statements made. "Regularly losing" is just such a wrong deceiving statement. Again if you guys want to be like that just put me on ignore because I will call you out in a heartbeat.

 

[jakez4ut]

A bit over exaggeration. He's not consistently lost to teams he should win. That is your own narrow mindedness. Just because we did not win 10,11,12 games this year doesn't mean that Butch can't. That's what is irritating. The irrational illogical and unfactual statements made. "Regularly losing" is just such a wrong deceiving statement. Again if you guys want to be like that just put me on ignore because I will call you out in a heartbeat.

he didn't say always, he said regularly. which since he's been here, he's done that every year. Vandy in 13, FL in 14, FL, ARK 15 and Vandy/USCe 16.

that's as regular as it gets.

 

[Wylo]

he didn't say always, he said regularly. which since he's been here, he's done that every year. Vandy in 13, FL in 14, FL, ARK 15 and Vandy/USCe 16.

that's as regular as it gets.

This.

The love Butch crowd always says that just because he hasn't done it before(won 10+ games in the SEC, won the SEC East, Beaten an SEC West team, played in big bowl games), that doesn't mean he can't.

The exact opposite is true. He's actually SHOWN that he cannot. He shows it every year. The results are the same. The only changes are the excuses and coach speak.

 

[jakez4ut]

This. The love Butch crowd always says that just because he hasn't done it before(won 10+ games, SEC East, played in big bowl games), that doesn't mean he can't.

The exact opposite is true. He's actually SHOWN that he cannot. He shows it every year. The results are the same. The only changes are the excuses and coach speak.

hell, i'm willing to throw away year 1 and 2 just because of circumstance.

the thing that the faithful butch folks don't get, is the reason most of us are upset, not all, cause there are some that haven't liked him since day 1, but most of us changed our expectation level because of what Butch did in year 1 and 2, and the way he recruited, and fixed a lot of the issues....that he hasn't, or can't, or won't, deliver on those expectations...well....that's on him.

 

[djohnnyg]

I'm as critical of Butch as the next guy but i'm not seeing any mention o acknowledgement of the horrible spate of injuries we had this yr. It's not an excuse...but it kind of is. We were hit horribly in that regard. I personally give Butch some slack for that...but if recruiting is starting to slip...then THAT is a huge red flag and a dangerous situation. That was Butch's saving grace.

Bama is all about recruiting...and rightfully so. If Butch is losing in that regard we are in deep doo doo.

Guys wanna use the term "stargazers" to those who constantly look at how a recruit is rated...and act like it doesn't matter if they are a 1 star or a 5 star...and the fact is it's everything. Show me a team that recruits nothing but 2 and 3 stars and i'll show you Vanderbilt or Central Michigan. Show me a team of 4 and 5 stars? I'll show you Alabama. Which one do u wanna be more similar to?

This latest class is concerning.

 

['Boro-vol]

A bit over exaggeration. He's not consistently lost to teams he should win. That is your own narrow mindedness. Just because we did not win 10,11,12 games this year doesn't mean that Butch can't. That's what is irritating. The irrational illogical and unfactual statements made. "Regularly losing" is just such a wrong deceiving statement. Again if you guys want to be like that just put me on ignore because I will call you out in a heartbeat.

I didn't say "regularly losing", I said "regularly losing to teams he shouldn't". There's a difference.

He drops one or two a year to teams we were favored against. And that just simply outweighs the teams he beats that he should have.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

he didn't say always, he said regularly. which since he's been here, he's done that every year. Vandy in 13, FL in 14, FL, ARK 15 and Vandy/USCe 16.

that's as regular as it gets.

On the flip side....Mighty Philly Phil only had 6 full seasons where he had 2 or less losses. 10 seasons with 3 or more losses...along with seven 2nd place SEC East finishes with all the talent he had and no rebuilding job to perform....and didn't win the East crown and SEC Championship until year 5 then repeated year 6 with a NC....then one last rodeo year in 2001 to blow it against Saban.

There was a lot of times watching Tennessee I spent thinking if we win this game it is because of the shear superior talent we have not the coaching. Phil's best years were when Cutcliffe was on board. We won a lot back then but we were never consistent 1 or 2 loss teams every year.

Butch is only going to succeed with the right OC and DC in his ear brainstorming on scheme and game planning. Toss in some proven position coaches (OL, DB, S&C) he can right this ship. And at the end of the day if those additions can add at least 2 more wins a season then we will be in a great spot every year.

No I have been critical of Butch many times this season especially...but I want us to win one way or another...hopefully without starting from scratch again.

Now continue fighting on gentlemen.

 

[AM64]

Butch has had 4 years to work it out. None of Dooleys players remain. The failure is 100% of Jone's making.

Of course he's had four years to improve the roster and Dooley's recruits are gone. But you and too many others here can't seem to grasp that building a great roster is like trying to fill a bathtub with hot water when you can't completely shut off the cold water, you can't close the drain, and the flow is severely restricted.

The flow is restricted because of NCAA recruiting limits. You can't get all 5* (hot players) because there are only so many and you have to compete with the likes of AL, OH St for those so you just have to mix in some lukewarm types. The open drain should speak for itself - graduation, NFL, and transfers. That means the great players that you worked hard to get probably won't be around for four years - if they pan out at all. You know Johnny Majors recruited a class of something like 76 players (including a guy named Dorsett) one year at Pitt - still took three or four years to really win big.

You can cobble together a reasonably acceptable first string fairly quickly, but the depth needed to sustain wins over an SEC season comes at a much slower pace. That was very evident on defense toward the end of the season.

 

[TVOL71]

Butch is a terrible coach

No. Dooley was a terrible coach, Butch is a good coach, but it remains to be seen if he can become a great coach.

 

[AM64]

The SEC east was literally never in its history easier to win than it was this year and Butch lost to Vandy and USC to become the only adult who ever failed to take candy from a baby.

If winning the east was based solely on beating east teams, your argument would have merit - it isn't and your thought process is a failure. You may or may not have noticed that UT is the only east team that plays AL every year, that's like spotting everybody in the east a game. You also could have noticed but probably didn't that UT typically gets the second hottest west team (and, therefore, the second hottest SEC team - at least when the game is played).

 

[AM64]

We own the bottom third of the B1G.

OWN.

No we don't. The bottom third of the big10 doesn't even make it to the bowl games; we've been picking on at least the middle third.

 

[AM64]

he didn't say always, he said regularly. which since he's been here, he's done that every year. Vandy in 13, FL in 14, FL, ARK 15 and Vandy/USCe 16.

that's as regular as it gets.

If losing yearly to a team you should have beat is the definition of regular, then there are few outliers in college football history - there is rarely a Saturday that at least one top 10 team doesn't do it.

 

[Brasszilla]

If losing yearly to a team you should have beat is the definition of regular, then there are few outliers in college football history - there is rarely a Saturday that at least one top 10 team doesn't do it.

exactly. i'm still waiting for these clowns to show me a coach who has never lost to a team they shouldn't have. they wanna poo poo butch but put all these other coaches on a pedestal even though they have lost to inferior opponents just the same.

 

[Burger]

No. Dooley was a terrible coach, Butch is a good coach, but it remains to be seen if he can become a great coach.

Good recruiter, Good talent evaluator, bad on gameday.

I actually think he'd do really good in the front office of a pro team.

 

[golfballs]

He took over at a time when our roster was ****. Obviously he's going to have losses. He has the program trending up. Jon Gruden isn't walking through the door tomorrow. The b1tching is pointless

 

[Weezer]

I don't buy into positive or negative. That's all a matter of perspective. What I want to see, and have yet to see, is ownership. Every win or loss falls on the head coach. I don't want to hear excuses about why we lost. Find the problems and fix them. When the same mistakes are made over and over, I blame coaching.

 

[tnvols72]

:finger3:where did I say that was my goal? I simply showed what UT has done in the 4 years Count posted vs the previous 4 years.


When Dooley was fired it was common thought here that it would take 10 years to get back to Relevance. We are getting there faster than that. Why fire the head coach and start over now?

How long did it take Michigan to get back to relevance ? It depends if you go shopping for a coach at the mall vs the flea market. You get what you pay for.

 

[05_never_again]

How long did it take Michigan to get back to relevance ? It depends if you go shopping for a coach at the mall vs the flea market. You get what you pay for.

It also depends on timing. Harbaugh was available at the same time Michigan needed a coach. If Brady Hoke somehow managed to pull together an 11-2 season in 2014 (like he did in 2011), even if Harbaugh was "their guy," they likely would have kept Hoke. If Hoke sucked the next year and you fire him, Harbaugh all of a sudden isn't available anymore. Luck plays a role.

Alabama got Saban the same way. Shula went 10-2 and had Alabama ranked in the top 10 the season before he was fired. If he did that again in 2006, I doubt they fire him, even if Saban still wanted out of Miami. It would be really hard to justify firing a coach who just went 20-4 over the last 2 seasons, even if the guy that you want is a former national title winner at another school.

Situations like that are why fanbases sometimes root for coaches to fail to ensure that they are fired - like LSU fans who were disappointed they beat A&M in that final game last year because it gave him a greater chance of staying on.

 

[xpsyclonex2002]

If Butch had won the SEC East, would he suddenly be a great coach in the eyes of his detractors? Would all of the *****ers and moaners suddenly think he was a good coach if we actually went to the playoff games? No. They would still complain and talk about Gruden. The "Legions of the Miserable" will always be out there, complaining.

 

[KBVol]

First college football has changed…but it has always meant a lot. Jones has turned a program around from a losing program on life support to one step away from being in the mix for the national picture….crawl before you walk….give the man two seasons…if he can't get back in the top ten by then we need to move on.

6 years.....just to win a division title in the weak SEC East? Seems a bit excessive imo.