I think some of you seriously misunderstand Butch

[xpsyclonex2002]

When he stops regularly losing to teams he shouldn't lose to we'll talk.

Until then he's a career 8.7 wpy coach, who is in over his head in the SEC. The used car salesman justifications don't help his case, and just expose him as not big enough for this job.

Yeah right! I mean, Butch should be more like Saban. And by " be more like Saban" I mean win a NC ever single year just like Saban did in:
MSU
95' 6-5
96' 6-6
97' 7-5
98' 9-2
LSU
99' 8-4
00' 10-3
01' 8-5
02' 13-1
03' 9-3
Mia
04' 9-7
05' 6-10
AL
07' 7-6

 

['Boro-vol]

Yeah right! I mean, Butch should be more like Saban. And by " be more like Saban" I mean win a NC ever single year just like Saban did in:
MSU
95' 6-5
96' 6-6
97' 7-5
98' 9-2
LSU
99' 8-4
00' 10-3
01' 8-5
02' 13-1
03' 9-3
Mia
04' 9-7
05' 6-10
AL
07' 7-6

I never said Saban....You did. Instead of building a strawman argument, just address what I DID say.

 

['Boro-vol]

If Butch had won the SEC East, would he suddenly be a great coach in the eyes of his detractors? Would all of the *****ers and moaners suddenly think he was a good coach if we actually went to the playoff games? No. They would still complain and talk about Gruden. The "Legions of the Miserable" will always be out there, complaining.

No...But he would be doing the job he was paid $4.1 million to do, and we would have no basis for complaint. I've said for 4 years the best thing for Tennessee is for Butch to be successful. The overwhelming evidence though, says that will likely not be the case past about 9 wins. Sorry, I love my University too much for that to be an acceptable ceiling.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

If Butch had won the SEC East, would he suddenly be a great coach in the eyes of his detractors? Would all of the *****ers and moaners suddenly think he was a good coach if we actually went to the playoff games? No. They would still complain and talk about Gruden. The "Legions of the Miserable" will always be out there, complaining.

Incorrect

 

[08Vol]

2-2 vs Vandy

1-3 vs Florida

2-2 vs Georgia

0-4 vs Bama

0-4 vs rest of West division

14-18 SEC record


Dropped in recruiting rankings

Not even in top 5 recruiting in the SEC

The writing is on the wall

This lumps in 4 years of data to ignore improvements. 2013 was a cluster and would have been a horrible season no matter which coach came in. I'll twist these stats to show everything as positive

First win in Athens in 10 years
First winning streak over UGA since 06-07
First win over UF in 11 years
First time beating 3 AP top 25 teams since 2007. Compare that to Fulmer who, following our National Championship, only beat >= 3 top 25 teams in a season in 01, 04, and 07
First 3 game win streak in bowl games since 94-96

 

[AM64]

6 years.....just to win a division title in the weak SEC East? Seems a bit excessive imo.

The east may be weak, but all SEC games count toward winning the east. Nobody else plays Bama every year to win the east - makes a big difference. If you are going to have divisions and a championship game based on division winners, then only division wins should count toward winning the division. Otherwise your argument is invalid because as things stand the teams vying for the east title don't do so under equal conditions - Tennessee is the only team that has to play the SEC champion every year just to win its own division.

 

['Boro-vol]

The east may be week, but all SEC games count toward winning the east. Nobody else plays Bama every year to win the east - makes a big difference. If you are going to have divisions and a championship game based on division winners, then only division wins should count toward winning the division. Otherwise your argument is invalid because as things stand the teams vying for the east title don't do so under equal conditions - Tennessee is the only team that has to play the SEC champion every year just to win its own division.

Really? Tennessee is the only SEC team to play Bama every year? Maybe in the East. However, just taking this year as an example....the loss to Bama didn't keep us out of the Championship game, two East losses did....SC and Vandy specifically. When you take care of business against your East rivals, GA and FL....like we did, you have nothing to worry about if you beat the cellar dwellers in November. It takes a special set of circumstances for it not to happen.

Bama is not an excuse.

 

[BeecherVol]

If Butch had won the SEC East, would he suddenly be a great coach in the eyes of his detractors? Would all of the *****ers and moaners suddenly think he was a good coach if we actually went to the playoff games? No. They would still complain and talk about Gruden. The "Legions of the Miserable" will always be out there, complaining.

Would he be considered a great coach if he won the east or a good coach if he made the playoffs?

Would McElwain be considered great and Dabo good?

 

[BeecherVol]

Really? Tennessee is the only SEC team to play Bama every year? Maybe in the East. However, just taking this year as an example....the loss to Bama didn't keep us out of the Championship game, two East losses did....SC and Vandy specifically. When you take care of business against your East rivals, GA and FL....like we did, you have nothing to worry about if you beat the cellar dwellers in November. It takes a special set of circumstances for it not to happen.

Bama is not an excuse.

Exactly. UT lost another non east game (A&M) and still wins the division if they beat Vandy and SC.

 

['Boro-vol]

Exactly. UT lost another non east game (A&M) and still wins the division if they beat Vandy and SC.

He's a serial poster....He'll never acknowledge it. Hit and run is his style.

Apparently has Bama on the brain too....Started a whole thread about Saban. I think he has Saban-envy.

 

[BeecherVol]

He's a serial poster....He'll never acknowledge it. Hit and run is his style.

Apparently has Bama on the brain too....Started a whole thread about Saban. I think he has Saban-envy.

Yeah I saw that one. Jones is the next Saban. Just needs time.

 

[AM64]

Really? Tennessee is the only SEC team to play Bama every year? Maybe in the East. However, just taking this year as an example....the loss to Bama didn't keep us out of the Championship game, two East losses did....SC and Vandy specifically. When you take care of business against your East rivals, GA and FL....like we did, you have nothing to worry about if you beat the cellar dwellers in November. It takes a special set of circumstances for it not to happen.

Bama is not an excuse.

Last I knew, west teams aren't eligible to win the east, and that's what the comment was all about. Secondly, winning the division is strictly by the conference W/L number (unless there is a tie), and the games lost to AL and A&M count just the same as the losses to SC or Vandy. Granted the Vandy game should always be a win, but there is a tremendous difference in expectations when playing Vandy and AL, and a loss to either can significantly dent the chances of winning the division. You can derisively use the term "excuse" as much as you want; I'll go with "negative probability".

Should LSU and AL flip places when Saban's tenure is over, and LSU becomes the perennial beast of the west, then the SEC's method for determining a divisional championship would work against FL. The SEC method for determining divisional winners is not done on a level playing field; and because of the regular west opponents, some teams have a tougher path to a division championship.

 

['Boro-vol]

Last I knew, west teams aren't eligible to win the east, and that's what the comment was all about. Secondly, winning the division is strictly by the conference W/L number (unless there is a tie), and the games lost to AL and A&M count just the same as the losses to SC or Vandy. Granted the Vandy game should always be a win, but there is a tremendous difference in expectations when playing Vandy and AL, and a loss to either can significantly dent the chances of winning the division. You can derisively use the term "excuse" as much as you want; I'll go with "negative probability".

Should LSU and AL flip places when Saban's tenure is over, and LSU becomes the perennial beast of the west, then the SEC's method for determining a divisional championship would work against FL. The SEC method for determining divisional winners is not done on a level playing field; and because of the regular west opponents, some teams have a tougher path to a division championship.

Everyone has two cross-divisional opponents per year. Somebody else plays Bama. It's been illustrated very clearly that playing Bama doesn't keep us from representing the East. Quit trying to run from our traditional SEC rival, and simply expect your coach to compete at a high level.

 

[Caculator]

BJ is the senior coach in the east and has never won a game against the west.

 

[08Vol]

Really? Tennessee is the only SEC team to play Bama every year? Maybe in the East. However, just taking this year as an example....the loss to Bama didn't keep us out of the Championship game, two East losses did....SC and Vandy specifically. When you take care of business against your East rivals, GA and FL....like we did, you have nothing to worry about if you beat the cellar dwellers in November. It takes a special set of circumstances for it not to happen.

Bama is not an excuse.

The Bama loss didn't knock us out but you can't honestly sit there and say it had no affect on the team beyond the W-L column. These kids play on emotion and confidence and running into a freight train like Bama crushes that. The close game against Bama last year gave them the confidence to win out. The destruction this year helped lead to 2 bad losses.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

Butch is a terrible coach

I think you've forgotten what terrible looks like.

 

['Boro-vol]

The Bama loss didn't knock us out but you can't honestly sit there and say it had no affect on the team beyond the W-L column. These kids play on emotion and confidence and running into a freight train like Bama crushes that. The close game against Bama last year gave them the confidence to win out. The destruction this year helped lead to 2 bad losses.

Well...look at it this way, at least Butch has a built in excuse.

Fulmer never exercised that excuse.

 

[BeecherVol]

The Bama loss didn't knock us out but you can't honestly sit there and say it had no affect on the team beyond the W-L column. These kids play on emotion and confidence and running into a freight train like Bama crushes that. The close game against Bama last year gave them the confidence to win out. The destruction this year helped lead to 2 bad losses.

There's a new one.

 

['Boro-vol]

There's a new one.

I never cease to be amazed at the links they'll go to excuse his responsibility.

 

[Behr]

I never cease to be amazed at the links they'll go to excuse his responsibility.

I've seen some real doozies with the other ones as well. It ain't like anyone has "cornered the market".

 

[CPVOL]

2-2 vs Vandy

1-3 vs Florida

2-2 vs Georgia

0-4 vs Bama

0-4 vs rest of West division

14-18 SEC record


Dropped in recruiting rankings

Not even in top 5 recruiting in the SEC

The writing is on the wall

Wow. That's is sobering when you put it in writing.
2017 is make or break no matter how you slice it.

 

[jakez4ut]

If losing yearly to a team you should have beat is the definition of regular, then there are few outliers in college football history - there is rarely a Saturday that at least one top 10 team doesn't do it.

top 10 teams don't lose to the likes of a 5-6 Vandy and a 3 win USCe team at the time.

if you want to throw up Pitt beating Clemson or Iowa beating Michigan or something, neither of those upsets are on the same level as either of the two games we lost, considering where are program supposedly is, vs. where those two supposedly are.

and no, neither Michigan nor Clemson should have lost those games. yet both are still playing in NY6 or Playoff games.

we had the same (NY6 at least + division) on the line in both cases.:clapping:

 

[Gandalf]

I think you've forgotten what terrible looks like.

Kiffin is NOT a terrible coach, sadly, so much as a terrible person.

 

[jakez4ut]

if you beat GA and FL, and lose to Bama, you still have a 1 game buffer over at least one of them since they play each other later in the season. so at worst, if TN and FL/GA are all really really good, and 2 of the 3 go 7-1, the Bama loss doesn't mean squat, since you both finish with the same record, and you have the tie breaker.

so, no, the Bama game doesn't mean a thing to the division, when you beat the other two.

as was the case this year. and as it turned out, neither did the aTm game.

 

[FearAVolunteer]

Kiffin is NOT a terrible coach, sadly, so much as a terrible person.

You do know that's a picture of Dooley right?