The Problem of Whiteness

#403
#403
PKT_VOL said:
You keep hoping from phenotype to genotype and back whenever it suits your agenda. Phenotypes are rooted in genotypes and can be defined by genetics.

What's good for goose is good for the gander.
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God bless you for keeping up the effort - D4H is shifting sand (i'm sure he'll find a racial angle on my description)
 
#404
#404
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
We end when white people stop pretending it doesn't exist and work to destroy its vistages in society. Right now most white people like yourself deny it even exists thus not even getting us to the point of how to end it.

I made a long list once before on how to end white supremacy. The digest version is this. First, give all descendants of slavery and colonialism reparations. Second, create specialized education targeted to black children for black pride and empowerment. Third, transfer 50% of the control of all mass media to people of color. That way we can now start controlling our potroyal in the media.

That's just the appetizer. There's alot more that needs to be done to fix the damage white supremacy caused.
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I agree with reparations for all that were enslaved. They should come from the people that enslaved and sold them. Oops, that would be the nations on the West Coast of Africa. Why do you think (seemingly) that only US black citizens should receive reparations? Two to three times as many slaves were shipped to South America as North America.

Blacks were able to start and run BET and black magazines why can't can't they also start newspapers?

It appears that you want something for nothing.
 
#405
#405
luthervol said:
That's what civilizations have done throughout history.

Roads, police, firemen, defense, schools, hospitals, prisons, courts, food inspectors, parks, space exploration, research, disaster relief,

We have no choice in the amount we give or where it goes. Capitalism does not give people complete freedom of choice, that would be a catastrophe. The debate has never been about freedom of choice or not. Rather how much freedom of choice and at what cost.
We will never have pure communism or capitalism, every society will have some degree of socialism.
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Socialism is not communism.

Caring about your fellow man is not communism.

Charity is not communism.

Capitalism is not greed.

If you are concerned about "at what cost" issues then you inherently favor vesting choice in the hands of the many rather than the few. Advocating communism is surrendering the "at what cost" question from the many to the few enforcers of communism.

Put another way, communism in any large scale format has always depended on the few using force to enforce the system. OTOH, capitalism doesn't require a small number of "leaders" to force the system upon the masses.
 
#407
#407
volinbham said:
Socialism is not communism.

Caring about your fellow man is not communism.

Charity is not communism.

Capitalism is not greed.

If you are concerned about "at what cost" issues then you inherently favor vesting choice in the hands of the many rather than the few. Advocating communism is surrendering the "at what cost" question from the many to the few enforcers of communism.

Put another way, communism in any large scale format has always depended on the few using force to enforce the system. OTOH, capitalism doesn't require a small number of "leaders" to force the system upon the masses.
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We are obviously lacking a uniform understanding of communism, socialism, and capitalism. The attempts of the past and the examples we've seen are not indicative of what each is in concept and intent.
 
#409
#409
PKT_VOL said:
You keep hoping from phenotype to genotype and back whenever it suits your agenda. Phenotypes are rooted in genotypes and can be defined by genetics.

What's good for goose is good for the gander.
Click to expand...

Not always. See West African vis-a-vis Papua New Guinea. Similar phenotype. Way different genotypes.

The thing about science is it isn't just supposed to work some of the time or most of the time. It just work ALL the time.

So you can't say phenotype and genotype are scientifically linked when there are examples of it being not linked.

Phenotype as a poster said earlier is shaped by the environment not GENOTYPE. If it was shaped by genes then the people of Papua New Guinea would look Chinese rather than West African.
 
#410
#410
KentheOrange said:
The first step for that is to quit defining it by race.
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Not when injustice based on race still persists.

You want us to stop talking about race before racial injustice is corrected. That would only keep the racial injustices in place.

The only way to move forward is to fix the problem not ignore it.
 
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#411
#411
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Not when injustice based on race still persists.

You want us to stop talking about race before racial injustice is corrected. That would only keep the racial injustices in place.

The only way to move forward is to fix the problem not ignore it.
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You keep picking at an open wound and it will never heal. This didn't get here overnight and yet you want it fixed overnight. Not happening.
 
#412
#412
volinbham said:
God bless you for keeping up the effort - D4H is shifting sand (i'm sure he'll find a racial angle on my description)
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Haha. He doesn't have the intellectual prowess to constantly engage but enough stupidity to slap down or troll occasionally.
 
#413
#413
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Not always. See West African vis-a-vis Papua New Guinea. Similar phenotype. Way different genotypes.
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Yes, always. Phenotypes are always rooted in genotypes and can be defined by genetics. That's literally how it works.

Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
The thing about science is it isn't just supposed to work some of the time or most of the time. It just work ALL the time.
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This is really bad philosophy of science.

Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
So you can't say phenotype and genotype are scientifically linked when there are examples of it being not linked.
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Can't say they are scientifically linked? Seriously? Do you think they come out of thin air? Phenotypes are like rabbits in a magician's hat?

Phenotypes are inextricably, scientifically, and casually linked to genotype.

Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Phenotype as a poster said earlier is shaped by the environment not GENOTYPE. If it was shaped by genes then the people of Papua New Guinea would look Chinese rather than West African.
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This might be the dumbest thing I've read on VN this year.
 
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#414
#414
PKT_VOL said:
Yes, always. Phenotypes are always rooted in genotypes and can be defined by genetics. That's literally how it works.



This is really bad philosophy of science.



Can't say they are scientifically linked? Seriously? Do you think they come out of thin air? Phenotypes are like rabbits in a magician's hat?

Phenotypes are inextricably, scientifically, and casually linked to genotype.



This might be the dumbest thing I've read on VN this year.
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These girls are from Papau New Guinea. Genetically they are more closely related to East Asians than Africans. And yet they can pass as black women more easily in Harlem than as asian women in Tokyo.

pngbann.jpg__1500x670_q85_crop_subsampling-2.jpg


Just because you share a phenotype (aka race) with another people doesn't mean you have the same genotype.
 
#419
#419
KentheOrange said:
I agree with reparations for all that were enslaved. They should come from the people that enslaved and sold them. Oops, that would be the nations on the West Coast of Africa. Why do you think (seemingly) that only US black citizens should receive reparations? Two to three times as many slaves were shipped to South America as North America.

Blacks were able to start and run BET and black magazines why can't can't they also start newspapers?

It appears that you want something for nothing.
Click to expand...

Once anyone mentions reparations, you know they are not interested in the longevity of equality. Reparations is a crutch for self centered people to get free money for something they never experienced(slavery). Anyone who disagrees with that is as jaded as they come.

Reparations won't be significant enough to alter someone's life either.
 
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#420
#420
luthervol said:
That's what civilizations have done throughout history.

Roads, police, firemen, defense, schools, hospitals, prisons, courts, food inspectors, parks, space exploration, research, disaster relief,

We have no choice in the amount we give or where it goes. Capitalism does not give people complete freedom of choice, that would be a catastrophe. The debate has never been about freedom of choice or not. Rather how much freedom of choice and at what cost.
We will never have pure communism or capitalism, every society will have some degree of socialism.
Click to expand...

Why would allowing people to decide how to spend their money be a catastrophe?
 
#422
#422
Fwiw, I think I'm better than everybody in here. All races, religions, and color, and hair lengths. If anyone has a problem with that, meet me at Waffle House in 30 minutes.
 
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#423
#423
On a tangential sidenote, I have stopped using the hyphen for any American subgroup. If you're black, you're black to me now. No more African-American. If you're Hispanic or Latino, you're Hispanic or Latino to me now. No more Mexican-American, Colombian-American, Puerto Rican, etc. If you're Irish-American, you're just white. Even if you're Native American, it doesn't matter to me anymore; you're now either Indian or First Nations people. (I've always liked First Nations best anyhow, because it sounds mythic and cool; I have no clue why we haven't adopted that like Canada did long ago.)

I don't like the way we keep pigeon-holing our identities as a culture today. While it may make some of us - especially the historically disenfranchised - feel good about ourselves today, it will only create further room for divisiveness in the future. Going the way of identity politics never ends well.
 
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#424
#424
volprof said:
On a tangential sidenote, I have stopped using the hyphen for any American subgroup. If you're black, you're black to me now. No more African-American. If you're Hispanic or Latino, you're Hispanic or Latino to me now. No more Mexican-American, Colombian-American, Puerto Rican, etc. If you're Irish-American, you're just white. Even if you're Native American, it doesn't matter to me anymore; you're now either Indian or First Nations people.

I don't like the way we keep pigeon-holing our identities as a culture today. While it may make some of us - especially the historically disenfranchised - feel good about ourselves today, it will only create further room for divisiveness in the future. Going the way of identity politics never ends well.
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Wow, just flat out hating Puerto Ricans now eh?
 
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