The Problem of Whiteness

#351
#351
luthervol said:
Why would I answer your questions when you want answer mine?
Maybe because I'm not ashamed of my answer.

It's fed by the mentality of more is better, the personal accumulation of wealth, taking care of yourself above concern of others, basically greed.

Greed is a great motivator, maybe the best in the world, but it is not a trait Christians are taught to nurture.
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Idk how many times I have to tell you. If you want me to answer something that I missed, the ask me again. But stop acting like a toddler over it.

I think your overall issue is that you believe the pie is fixed. You believe one person having more causes another person to have less.
 
#352
#352
luthervol said:
You seem to fall back to that question constantly.
You're a couple post away from me concluding that you are a white supremacist. Are you? If not, do you mainly agree or disagree with them?

I'll try to throw out a few ways that white supremacy could hurt if left unchecked.

98% of top jobs go through a hiring process controlled by white people (made up stat but probably close) They only hire whites.

Major contractors (white) only hire white subcontractors.

Top universities deny non white applicants.

Refusal to sell houses to black people in better school districts.

But let's play your game and assume white supremacy in no way harms minorities ability to improve their plight. Any failure is due to personal choices and liberal policies.

Do you support the concept of white supremacy?
Do you think it has an overall positive effect or negative effect?
Do you personally believe the white race is the over all superior race?
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The last 3 questions.
 
#353
#353
Vol8188 said:
Idk how many times I have to tell you. If you want me to answer something that I missed, the ask me again. But stop acting like a toddler over it.

I think your overall issue is that you believe the pie is fixed. You believe one person having more causes another person to have less.
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The questions are in the post above.

The pie isn't fixed but it does have a sometimes heavy price for growth.
 
#357
#357
luthervol said:
The questions are in the post above.

The pie isn't fixed but it does have a sometimes heavy price for growth.
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No it really doesn't. Any new innovation expands the pie as does labor and productivity
 
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#358
#358
Vol8188 said:
No it really doesn't. Any new innovation expands the pie as does labor and productivity
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Thanks for the answers, even though your answer to #2 negates all 3 answers - I'm worried about semantics.

I said sometimes, and yes it does....climate change, pollution, natural resources to name a few. (or are you part of the group that denies the science?)

With Trump's appointments for the DEA and EPA it will only get worse.
 
#359
#359
n_huffhines said:
Why are you obsessed with Christianity? Who cares what Christians are taught about greed? Just because greed isn't a desirable quality in a person doesn't mean managing our greed to create the best economic results is bad.

BTW, I am not a Christian, but I know enough about the Bible to understand that he never advocated communism and his parable of the talents is a story about capitalism.
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I'm not a christian either; more atheist than anything.
I've just always been fascinated with the right's ability to claim both Christianity and capitalism as two of their high flying banners.
Christianity teaches selflessness and putting your neighbor's interest before your own.
The parable of the talents is in no way about capitalism, it is about using your talents for the greater good.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This statement is much more in line with Christ's teachings than is capitalism.
 
#360
#360
luthervol said:
I'm not a christian either; more atheist than anything.
I've just always been fascinated with the right's ability to claim both Christianity and capitalism as two of their high flying banners.
Christianity teaches selflessness and putting your neighbor's interest before your own.
The parable of the talents is in no way about capitalism, it is about using your talents for the greater good.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This statement is much more in line with Christ's teachings than is capitalism.
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The only thing that is fascinating is your fundamental misunderstandings of both Christianity and markets.

The greater good? The people who did the most with their talents (which was money, it's not referring to God-given talent) were awarded more talents. The people who did nothing with their talents had theirs taken away and given to the successful ones. What on earth does that have to do with the greater good?

Christianity teaches individuals how to be righteous. This has nothing to do with what kind of economic system best serves the masses.
 
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#362
#362
n_huffhines said:
No. It's not a legitimate comparison at all. It's like saying all communism looks like venezuela. We were essentially libertarian for the first 70 years of our history and we did pretty well. You have to control for culture, wealth, corruption, education, etc. This **** doesn't happen in a vacuum.
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All right for the first 70 years of our history?

You talking about all the internal rebellions, constant economic scares and panics, and general exploitation of urban workers?
 
#363
#363
volprof said:
All right for the first 70 years of our history?

You talking about all the internal rebellions, constant economic scares and panics, and general exploitation of urban workers?
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How were things Europe?

Look at the history of how poorly new governments function and then mock our founding.
 
#364
#364
n_huffhines said:
The only thing that is fascinating is your fundamental misunderstandings of both Christianity and markets.

The greater good? The people who did the most with their talents (which was money, it's not referring to God-given talent) were awarded more talents. The people who did nothing with their talents had theirs taken away and given to the successful ones. What on earth does that have to do with the greater good?

Christianity teaches individuals how to be righteous. This has nothing to do with what kind of economic system best serves the masses.
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If you believe that Christ would endorse a capitalistic economic system, then the fundamental misunderstandings are yours. The US christian community has spent more than a century trying to justify capitalism as being compatible with Christianity. Based on your opinions, they've been successful. That is what I, and a large part of the rest of the world, find fascinating.
 
#365
#365
GROWTH1850.JPG
 
#366
#366
n_huffhines said:
How were things Europe?

Look at the history of how poorly new governments function and then mock our founding.
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Mock our founding? What are you talking about? Just pointing out that it was not some sort of libertarian paradise.
 
#367
#367
luthervol said:
If you believe that Christ would endorse a capitalistic economic system, then the fundamental misunderstandings are yours. The US christian community has spent more than a century trying to justify capitalism as being compatible with Christianity. Based on your opinions, they've been successful. That is what I, and a large part of the rest of the world, find fascinating.
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I didn't say I believe that.

Christ wouldn't endorse either system because he said "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar"

At its very basic core, Christianity is about choice. You have a choice to accept Jesus. You have a choice to follow the commandments. If Jesus is omnipotent God, then he could force people to be charitable, but he doesn't. He lets them choose for themselves. A Christian should conclude that they need to let others choose for themselves, too.
 
#368
#368
n_huffhines said:
GROWTH1850.JPG
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I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but if so, then it's a pretty poor demonstration of how libertarianism works effectively. It seems to suggest that the colonial monarchy was some sort of libertarian system.

There's much that we can learn and adopt from libertarianism. But, just like socialism, when applied across the board, it breeds excesses that ultimately lead to suffering and hardship.
 
#369
#369
volprof said:
Mock our founding? What are you talking about? Just pointing out that it was not some sort of libertarian paradise.
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Why does it have to be a paradise?

It's one of the most remarkable times in our world history. The property rights that America was built upon fostered the mother****ing industrial revolution. Isn't that good enough?

Worker rights was a problem nobody had before, because everybody used to work on a farm and died of starvation when they had bad harvests. Then we improved on the steam engine and then the world got rich.

But yeah, **** that libertarian system because it wasn't total paradise
 
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#370
#370
n_huffhines said:
Why does it have to be a paradise?

It's one of the most remarkable times in our world history. The property rights that America was built upon fostered the mother****ing industrial revolution. Isn't that good enough?

Worker rights was a problem nobody had before, because everybody used to work on a farm and died of starvation when they had bad harvests. Then we invented and improved on the steam engine and then the world got rich.

But yeah, **** that libertarian system because it wasn't total paradise
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I suppose I see much of what you speak of as just as much a result of the Enlightenment as libertarian principles. It seems you're claiming the Enlightenment for libertarianism.
 
#371
#371
volprof said:
I suppose I see much of what you speak of as just as much a result of the Enlightenment as libertarian principles. It seems you're claiming the Enlightenment for libertarianism.
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My argument is that the enlightenment came about because Brits and Americans were starting to enjoy basic libertarian rights (property rights), that had never been allowed on that scale in the past.

Bro, Hero invented the steam engine in ancient Greece. Nobody actually made it work until like 1700.
 
#372
#372
n_huffhines said:
My argument is that the enlightenment came about because Brits and Americans were starting to enjoy basic libertarian rights (property rights), that had never been allowed on that scale in the past.

Bro, Hero invented the steam engine in ancient Greece. Nobody actually made it work until like 1700.
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How does libertarianism necessarily make a steam engine work? Fascists and communists have historically been very good at making certain technological things work. That suggests to me that there's nothing inherent in tech that necessarily requires libertarianism. Maybe I'm just not understanding you.
 
#373
#373
volprof said:
How does libertarianism necessarily make a steam engine work? Fascists and communists have historically been very good at making certain technological things work. That suggests to me that there's nothing inherent in tech that necessarily requires libertarianism. Maybe I'm just not understanding you.
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I am saying that innovation came about because of property rights. There are millions of minds in the world that can potentially come up with a world-changing ideas. If they all live under the rule of noblemen, and anything they invent will be taken from them by nobility, they have no incentive to invent a cotton gin or a steam engine.

But once the west move towards libertarianism, that all changed and it changed dramatically fast.
 
#374
#374
luthervol said:
I'm not a christian either; more atheist than anything.
I've just always been fascinated with the right's ability to claim both Christianity and capitalism as two of their high flying banners.
Christianity teaches selflessness and putting your neighbor's interest before your own.
The parable of the talents is in no way about capitalism, it is about using your talents for the greater good.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This statement is much more in line with Christ's teachings than is capitalism.
Click to expand...

You show a profound lack of insight into the Bible.
 
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