Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

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#526
#526
VolGee4 said:
To be fair, he created some of the expectations.

Look, I am not trying to say I am happy with the results. But, you just don't fire a coach after two 8-4 seasons with one being decimated with injuries after the worst coach in your program's history. Other coaches will ask WTH is going on there?

You also can't fire same coach and hire another just like him. They want security, and money isn't an issue anymore. It's just not realistic. You better have an elite coach in waiting if you make the move.
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I disagree on the point that he created the expectations. The expectations will always be at UT whether you, me, Butch or the next HC like it or not.

And I'm compartmentalizing the honeymoon and firing aspects. The end of the honeymoon doesn't mean he had to be fired. It just means it's time to prove it.

But with a program with expectations similar to UT, its extraordinary that he got the honeymoon that he did. I think the fact that his early recruiting rankings were so high served him well with respect to that.
 
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#528
#528
VolGee4 said:
Anyone see the report that the Browns are enamored with Myles Garrett? He may end up be a fantastic pro, but you would think Haslam would have a bunch of information at his disposal about Barnett and might slow that roll. Just thought it was interesting.

All I know is that Barnett works hard, is talented, and has a great motor.
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Well the browns are terrible at scouting and drafting, so them being enamored with him makes sense.
 
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#531
#531
McGeesPub said:
I disagree on the point that he created the expectations. The expectations will always be at UT whether you, me, Butch or the next HC like it or not.

And I'm compartmentalizing the honeymoon and firing aspects. The end of the honeymoon doesn't mean he had to be fired. It just means it's time to prove it.

But with a program with expectations similar to UT, its extraordinary that he got the honeymoon that he did. I think the fact that his early recruiting rankings were so high served him well with respect to that.
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The roster he inherited was a disaster, and he absolutely expedited the expectations with his recruiting classes. Even though expectations are high at UT, I am not sure how that could be debated. The other issue was that the team collapsed in some huge games last year, which showed the fans that the talent was there and just needed to close out games. That absolutely helped create the expectations.

He got the "honeymoon" that he did because he improved every single year. Dooley got 3 years because he got worse, and his first year wasn't great. Butch has gotten better every year until now, and the firing debate can now be discussed. You hire coaches to improve your program.

Again, this shouldn't be spun as me accepting mediocrity. It isn't. UT does have some loftier expectations than most schools, but they also have to be realistic. If you consider firing a coach after 3 straight years of improvement and then a plateau with injuries, there is no doubt that high level coaches will be wondering if they will have enough security if they take the job.
 
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#538
#538
VolGee4 said:
The roster he inherited was a disaster, and he absolutely expedited the expectations with his recruiting classes. Even though expectations are high at UT, I am not sure how that could be debated. The other issue was that the team collapsed in some huge games last year, which showed the fans that the talent was there and just needed to close out games. That absolutely helped create the expectations.

He got the "honeymoon" that he did because he improved every single year. Dooley got 3 years because he got worse, and his first year wasn't great. Butch has gotten better every year until now, and the firing debate can now be discussed. You hire coaches to improve your program.

Again, this shouldn't be spun as me accepting mediocrity. It isn't. UT does have some loftier expectations than most schools, but they also have to be realistic. If you consider firing a coach after 3 straight years of improvement and then a plateau with injuries, there is no doubt that high level coaches will be wondering if they will have enough security if they take the job.
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We are having two different conversations. I've said nothing about firing Butch. That was never in the realm of possibilities. Also, no one has said anything about you accepting mediocrity. Yet you've made a point to mention it twice in a row.

I've simply said that there will always be expectations at UT, and because of that, it is extraordinary that it has been 3.5 years and he is just now feeling any sort of external pressure. I'm under no illusions that UT fans have given him this kind of grace period out of patience and understanding. He has obviously done something to garner it, and in my opinion, it has much more to do with early recruiting than results on the field.
 
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#540
#540
McGeesPub said:
We are having two different conversations. I've said nothing about firing Butch. That was never in the realm of possibilities. Also, no one has said anything about you accepting mediocrity. Yet you've made a point to mention it twice in a row.

I've simply said that there will always be expectations at UT, and because of that, it is extraordinary that it has been 3.5 years and he is just now feeling any sort of external pressure. I'm under no illusions that UT fans have given him this kind of grace period out of patience and understanding. He has obviously done something to garner it, and in my opinion, it has much more to do with early recruiting than results on the field.
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I think his early win against SC and how close he came to upsetting UGA also helped the honeymoon period. Just having a team that always competed even with a noticeable talent deficient eased a lot of fans minds after the debacle Dooley left
 
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#541
#541
McGeesPub said:
We are having two different conversations. I've said nothing about firing Butch. That was never in the realm of possibilities. Also, no one has said anything about you accepting mediocrity. Yet you've made a point to mention it twice in a row.

I've simply said that there will always be expectations at UT, and because of that, it is extraordinary that it has been 3.5 years and he is just now feeling any sort of external pressure. I'm under no illusions that UT fans have given him this kind of grace period out of patience and understanding. He has obviously done something to garner it, and in my opinion, it has much more to do with early recruiting than results on the field.
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I have to keep mentioning it because people assume that you are accepting the state of the program if your position is on the side of the current coach. It's the VolNation way- it has to be black or white.

It all goes hand in hand. Once you leave the "honeymoon" period, then the next natural discussion is retaining/firing the coach. That's why it's called a honeymoon period. You get to a point where things have to get done, and divorce will be discussed.

It's quite easy to see why he made it 3.5 years. He improved every single year until now. Other than for insubordination, employers won't fire people who improve at their job every single year.
 
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#544
#544
VolGee4 said:
I have to keep mentioning it because people assume that you are accepting the state of the program if your position is on the side of the current coach. It's the VolNation way- it has to be black or white.

It all goes hand in hand. Once you leave the "honeymoon" period, then the next natural discussion is retaining/firing the coach. That's why it's called a honeymoon period. You get to a point where things have to get done, and divorce will be discussed.

It's quite easy to see why he made it 3.5 years. He improved every single year until now. Other than for insubordination, employers won't fire people who improve at their job every single year.
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Right. That's absolutely the next discussion. The thing is, we aren't there yet. After next year, maybe we'll be there. Otherwise, in this interaction, you are the only one forcing the issue.
 
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#546
#546
McGeesPub said:
Right. That's absolutely the next discussion. The thing is, we aren't there yet. After next year, maybe we'll be there. Otherwise, in this interaction, you are the only one forcing the issue.
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I agree. And sorry if I directed it all at you. The "honeymoon period" comment is a pretty direct comment about Butch needed to be evaluated now.

The first thing I read this morning on this forum is that Butch "would probably be gone now if there was a new AD in place." My comments are relevant to what is being discussed on this site, and I am not the one "forcing the issue."
 
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#547
#547
Kamara making his decision about the NFL draft after the bowl game.... please please please stay....you'd be the #1 RB taken in the draft next yea$$$$ as opposed to this yea$
 
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#548
#548
Kamara's injury probably sealed his decision to leave early, and Malone is likely to take his chances, too. Given the circumstances, it's difficult to see either one of them returning. Next man up.
 
#549
#549
WarMachine said:
Is it possible to have expectations Butch fails to meet that don't immediately result in his job loss. I say yes.

Does that mean we should be happy going 8-5 or 9-4 every year. NOPE.

This year was disappointing because we all expected team #120 to build on top of team #119's success. I think we both agree that Tennessee fans EXPECT our team to be coached in a way that puts our team in direct competition for division championships each year. If we can't expect winning the east occasionally, then I would argue that isn't good enough.

I don't think we are really disagreeing that much, but I think you like being disagreeable! :)
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I agree. Good post and pretty much how I feel also.
 
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#550
#550
BaldBiker said:
The St. Louis Cardinals were my other (besides the colts) favorite NFL team growing up, until they moved them to Arizona. Never did take to the Rams being moved from LA to St. Louis, so them moving back made no difference to me. I'd like to see the Cardinals move back to St. Louis though. For nostalgia sake more than anything probably.
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Yep, I remember that well, I was devastated. I grew up around the Cape Girardeau area, went to college there, so I was a huge Cardinal fan. The original Cardiac Cards. Jim Hart, Mel Gray etc. They were never out of the game, they had an awesome offense at one time..
 
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