Vols trending Down (247 article)

#426
#426
Talk about trending down...last year Ole Miss had a top 5 class with 3 5 stars...one 5-7 season later. they have 10 recruits and 1 four star...ranked last in SEC and 60th overall...they are racing to the bottom of the west quickly...meanwhile we are 8-4 and have a top ten class for 2017
 
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#427
#427
Roustabout said:
I mentioned it before, but last Christmas Butch stops by a dinner, (wasn't formally scheduled as a speaker) and he says a few words.
The speech wound into this sappy, circle the wagons spiel, to the point where one dumb ass in the crowd says, "we got your back coach."

I'm sitting there thinking. "This is a christmas dinner, what the hell is he talking about." This was not about him. Say something inspirational, something heart warming. Instead he is up there, essentially posturing. It was odd. I'm not sure someone who is so uptight, constantly looking over shoulder, so sensitive, and always ready to circle the wagons is cut out for this in the long run.
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I am sure CBJ stopped in some random diner to talk about himself for a few minutes especially considering UT had a good year last year on the field. Why would he need to circle the wagons after a good season?
 
#428
#428
jakez4ut said:
that's fair. and look i've said it in a couple of other threads....i don't think all is well, though i'm encouraged by the recent days' recruiting news, but i don't think all is lost either.

i truly think he's at a fork in the road. as long has he's here, i'm always hoping he gets better, b/c i want this program to continue to get better.

so it's not a matter of "want to" with. i want Butch to be great. i'm rooting for it.

i just don't think he will be.
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This is where I'm at. Butch has continued to recruit well but doesn't do many other things at the same level. He still can turn it around but I have no confidence that he will.
 
#429
#429
landscapingvol said:
I am sure CBJ stopped in some random diner to talk about himself for a few minutes especially considering UT had a good year last year on the field. Why would he need to circle the wagons after a good season?
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Losing to Vandy in the last game takes the shine off of a "good" season.
 
#430
#430
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#432
#432
hohenfelsvol said:
This is where I'm at. Butch has continued to recruit well but doesn't do many other things at the same level. He still can turn it around but I have no confidence that he will.
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It's a shame, too. Recruiting is half the battle. If he would let paid professionals handle the other half and get out of the way, he would earn a ring or two. It would also be easy to hire top replacement coordinators when they move on to HC jobs.
 
#433
#433
VolnJC said:
Talk about trending down...last year Ole Miss had a top 5 class with 3 5 stars...one 5-7 season later. they have 10 recruits and 1 four star...ranked last in SEC and 60th overall...they are racing to the bottom of the west quickly...meanwhile we are 8-4 and have a top ten class for 2017
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Well the writing is on the wall as the NCAA hatchet is about to fall on them. How bad will it be, no telling with the NCAA.
 
#434
#434
golfballs said:
Does Travis Haney know what a trend is? Someone may need to plot the numbers 5, 7, 9, 9(?) out for him, and draw a line that connects those dots and have him explain what kind of trend he can extrapolate from that.
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Your "trend" fails to take into account what you and others preached for 3 years around here.... "just wait until he has talent and experienced and THEN judge him". Well, he had talent. He had experience. He mismanaged the S&C program and apparently the players.

The early, pre-injury play of this team supports everything in the article.

This is the first season he's truly fallen short of expectations since his first year at Cincinnati, and he responded by winning a conference championship the next year.
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No it isn't. He's lost at least one game in each season that he should have won. Without much argument, he's only won one game that he shouldn't have.... USCe.

As many others in this thread have said, I also take "unnamed sources" with a grain of salt. They almost always are people with an axe to grind. That is the bigger story to me- that there are disgruntled employees trying to undermine the football coach by anonymously talking to the media.
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Right. If those were harsh or unfair or vindictive criticisms then you might have a point. They aren't. They were far more sympathetic and disappointed than "disgruntled".

He's going to be the coach next year no matter what groveling fans and disgruntled UTAD employees want. So while things mentioned in the article may be true, and he has an off-season to address them, and it's likely not constructive for people to be airing the dirty laundry before that happens.
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Few think action will be taken on him this year. But he enters next year in a do or die situation. As many of us have pointed out, Jones has to make fundamental changes in himself FIRST.... and then he can address some of the other issues.
 
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#435
#435
Rgntddybrvol91 said:
In the interview of Trey Smith by Espn, Smith states that one of the biggest reasons he picked UT was how the O line players had made him feel at home and how good it made him feel. Not once did he say anything like this about CBJ...

I give Jones credit for getting him on board,but IMO we shouldn't have to fight to keep in state talent of this caliber.
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volume dictates that we will have to fight to keep it. it's not like GA or FL where there's top notch talent at every corner of the state.

further, until we start seeing better production, and results for those players after college (going to the nfl), then that fight will continue to be tough.

Tee Higgins is a perfect example. when you look at TN and Clemson...who would you rather wind up being...Marquez North or Sammy Watkins?

i think we took some steps in the right direction this year, and in April we're going to finally see a few VFL's take the stage on draft day. that will help.

and as much as i may not necessarily agree with it, the fact that CBJ and co. are going to be here with all that buyout money, there's at least some semblance of stability a recruit can cling to.

there's a lot still going for TN in recruiting. and i think getting Smith's pledge was huge, and could lead to a few more dominos falling...

the question, as has been from the beginning, still is what does he do with it going forward....
 
#437
#437
hohenfelsvol said:
This is where I'm at. Butch has continued to recruit well but doesn't do many other things at the same level. He still can turn it around but I have no confidence that he will.
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yep, to this point, what he does well, he still does well.

the bad news is, also to this point, what he doesn't do well, he still doesn't do well.
 
#439
#439
So,anything written or said about Jones or the program that is not 100% positive is an absolute lie and produced by someone with an obvious axe to grind?

Got it.
 
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#440
#440
SaintLouisVol said:
For VolNation, it's more like: "Bottom line. Don't believe anything that conflicts with your personal point of view."
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I thought the same thing. Typical VN response to something they don't like..."Lalalalalalallalalalalalalalalla I can't hear you!"
 
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#442
#442
Boca Vol said:
You're exactly right. There were many on here that were hanging from Dooley's sack right up to the end.

If anyone mentioned in '10-'11 that Dooley wasn't the answer they were told they weren't "real fans" and told to go cheer for Bama, UF, Vandy, etc.

I don't understand the blind loyalty for a coach. I understand supporting the program. But the 2 are different. Supporting your school/team no matter what doesn't make that person a "good" fan. In fact, those are the worst fans. If the stadium is packed and the $$$ is rolling in, why change anything?

When Butch was hired, the slogan around here was, "Butch gets it." When UT went 5-7 in '13, the saying became, "Look at what Saban did in his 2nd year at Bama." Now it's, "Look at how long it took Saban to win at Mich. St." Or they're telling you not to focus on USCjr & Vandy but celebrate UF & UGA.

I think the article is spot-on in several aspects. Butch doesn't appear comfortable on this stage. It's one thing to say "Own It" in the off-season. It's another thing to actually "Owning It." This was a true example of talk is cheap.

I'm not completely surprised by the outcome. I thought all during the off-season there were an awful lot of green jerseys on the practice field. Sometimes having too much leadership backfires. I hope 2017 UT gets "back to basics" and is fundamentally sound. If that happens I think they'll compete for and probably win the SEC East.

I want UT to win every game it plays in every sport. I've been a fan since the late 70's (as far back as I can remember). I was a student there in the 90's, and still watch every game.
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We are definitely on the same page.

I don't go back quite as far as you but very close so I feel I have pretty much seen everything this program has to offer, good and bad.

Wanting to see the good return over being a good soldier to whichever coach is working out the monthly payments for their buyout is far more important to me than a head coach or a few posters getting their feelings hurt. And, when you do make a point they can't contend with, they just move the goal line or throw out the insults. Been that way dating back to these message boards popping up and won't change. I can ignore it for the most part but the last couple of weeks here have been completely ridiculous.

Jones has shown it time and again in front of the press and this season on the sidelines how thin skinned he can be. I don't need unnamed sources to explain that one. Also don't need unnamed sources to explain the complete lack of discipline and accountability on the field either with the turnovers and penalties.

Que sera sera.
 
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#443
#443
Doyle Hargraves said:
So,anything written or said about Jones or the program that is not 100% positive is an absolute lie and produced by someone with an obvious axe to grind?

Got it.
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That's what they want you to believe. It's just like when Dooley was here and we talked about him. It didn't matter that we were right, or that Dooley was pitiful. They defended him with the same blind loyalty. "He's the coach at UT and I support him." "He needs more time." "Look what he inherited from Kiffin/Fulmer."

Butch is light years ahead of Dooley, and Butch is barely average as a coach, if that. But these guys will go down swinging and calling us names until the next guy comes in.
 
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#444
#444
Wylo said:
. . .Butch is light years ahead of Dooley . . .
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Only because of recruiting. In terms of player development and game-day skills, I don't know that one could make such an argument.

The reason CBJ has won more than DD is because he has better players.

Wylo said:
. . . But these guys will go down swinging and calling us names until the next guy comes in.
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Then we'll choose sides again and start fighting about him.
 
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#445
#445
I hope he keeps recruiting his tail off and gets some coaches that can make them SEC players. So long as we have talent it will be easier to find the next guy, if needed, as they won't be starting completely from scratch. Then it becomes a fit issue with what the coach wants to do. Hopefully we find an OC, regardless of HC, that can adapt to his players strengths.
 
#446
#446
With the release of this article and the outcry by many against it,you begin to understand how news networks like Fox and CNN pull in high ratings. People aren't interested in news as much as they are wanting to hear someone echo their own beliefs and they will fervently oppose anything that goes against those beliefs.
 
#447
#447
Doyle Hargraves said:
With the release of this article and the outcry by many against it,you begin to understand how news networks like Fox and CNN pull in high ratings. People aren't interested in news as much as they are wanting to hear someone echo their own beliefs and they will fervently oppose anything that goes against those beliefs.
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It's all about them clicks.
 
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#448
#448
sjt18 said:
Your "trend" fails to take into account what you and others preached for 3 years around here.... "just wait until he has talent and experienced and THEN judge him". Well, he had talent. He had experience. He mismanaged the S&C program and apparently the players.

The early, pre-injury play of this team supports everything in the article.

No it isn't. He's lost at least one game in each season that he should have won. Without much argument, he's only won one game that he shouldn't have.... USCe.

Right. If those were harsh or unfair or vindictive criticisms then you might have a point. They aren't. They were far more sympathetic and disappointed than "disgruntled".



Few think action will be taken on him this year. But he enters next year in a do or die situation. As many of us have pointed out, Jones has to make fundamental changes in himself FIRST.... and then he can address some of the other issues.
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I don't believe I've preached anything for 3 years. So I don't know what you're talking about. But that still has nothing to do with a "trend". For anyone who doesn't understand what a trend is, it's consecutive data points in a single direction. A single down year is not a trend.

I'm not talking about disappointing results in any one single game. Teams will lose some games they shouldn't. Ohio State lost to Penn State, but nobody is claiming they they have disappointed. I'm talking about seasons as a whole. This is the first he's truly failed to meet expectations since his first year at Cincy.

He's going to be the coach next year, and he has the opportunity to bounce back. Whether you think he will or not is besides the point. Grovelers in that Athletic Department airing their grievances to the media is more than likely counterproductive. They should take it up with their managers/the AD or Butch himself. Not Travis Haney.
 
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#449
#449
landscapingvol said:
I am sure CBJ stopped in some random diner to talk about himself for a few minutes especially considering UT had a good year last year on the field. Why would he need to circle the wagons after a good season?
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I was there, and i never said it was a random dinner. Butch was about arms length from me. He stopped in because of a relationship. I said stopped by, becuase he didn't eat or socialize. He literally stopped in, shook a few hands, spoke, and left.

We were excited and flattered, which was why I was scratching my head when Butch said he was keeping a list, referencing people he felt were critical of him.

I even videod part of the speech. Like I said, it took a turn. The relevant part was him talking about after they lost to Arkansas, he said he felt like he was losing the team, and how they rallied. I thought that was a good story, about how they bounced back. But then he starts talking about lists, and knowing "who is with him." My wife even joked about it, saying 'I wonder if you're on the list," but later commenting how it seemed paranoid and not appropriate.
 
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#450
#450
Roustabout said:
I was there. Butch was about arms length from me. He stopped in because of a relationship. We were excited and flattered, which was why I was scratching my head when Butch said he was keeping a list, referencing people he felt were critical of him.

I even videod part of the speech.
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I guess he spends a lot of time here on Volnation updating his list since the vandy game.
I am honored to be on that list.
 
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