Vols trending Down (247 article)

[BeecherVol]

Was UT's defense in the office that day?

Good stuff!

:hi:

I get on a decent run occasionally.

Appreciated.

 

[YankeeVol]

I totally agree. The tone of the article almost sounds like someone has an axe to grind. My two guesses are a big booster that wanted CBJ gone and didn't get their way or Hurd/Hurd apologist. Hurd is admittedly more of a conspiracy theory but with the bashing of Kamara in the article it didn't seem like too far of a stretch.

This. It wasn't a shot at BJ (I've done my fair share), but after getting the #1 recruit this is the type of nonsense that comes out?!?!

I get it, there are plenty of people not happy with Lyle's coaching (me included), but the guy can recruit. Proven again today.

 

[JACK8254]

I would give anything for Butch to sit down in front of a microphone and take some ownership. Either own the disappointment of 2016, or own some expectations moving forward.

Anything along the lines of "We're tired of the talk and Tennessee is coming to play." Just have some BALLS, man. I don't need all the Kiffin crap talking, but acknowledge that this BS is out there about you and your team and tell everyone that you're not backing down from any challenges or expectations.

butch would help himself and the team if he just acknowledged that this year, though not a disaster, was an absolute failure when viewed thru the lens of we fans expecting to be a final four team. The lack of effort and dedication was obvious in the Appy State and Ohio games. Everyone could tell there were a number of problems , but it was a slippery thing to evaluate. The team that , the previous year, has been so proud, poised, and prepared was none of those. Butch is a good person but we are not looking to hire a youth minister- we want a coach that WINS. This year is key to his survival at UT. All of the equity gained was used up plus some in the devastating losses to Vandy and SC. I hope we r better next year, cause I dont know anyone better that will come here to this toxic environment. We are the college version of the Eagles fanbase. If LSU cant induce a coach to come to a place where 5 star guys are thick for 6.5 M - who we gonna get?

 

[gburgvol]

Trending down? No, I really don't see it. Yes, this year was disappointing in many ways but, was also gratifying in many ways. (see Florida, Georgia and, VA Tech) UT is now just over 3 years removed from finishing 5-7 for the third year in a row. We'll see how it goes but, I believe that 2017 has a lot to offer VOLs fans. Healthy o-line + Trey, Healthy D-line - Barrnett but + Phillips, Kongbo and a few others. If Shoop can get his way then, watch out. I'm not predicting a NC but, 10-2 regular season is definitely possible.

 

[Chitlin&theDude]

This is clearly a piece that a reputable journalist wrote from an unbiased opinion. Obviously Travis took his time and talked to numerous people. This is more or less spot on. Talk of assistant coaching changes and butch growing into the job are nonsense. If you can't do it in 4 years---- you never will.

 

[SayNoToJorts]

Blinders

Maybe so. Admittedly my optimism has gone down quite a bit since Vandy and I have had to eat a lot of my words. No one is a blind Butch supporter. We all want what is best for UT, and if he fails we will be right there with you to show him the door. Just haven't seen enough to throw in the towel at this point

 

[Boca Vol]

Maybe so. Admittedly my optimism has gone down quite a bit since Vandy and I have had to eat a lot of my words. No one is a blind Butch supporter. We all want what is best for UT, and if he fails we will be right there with you to show him the door. Just haven't seen enough to throw in the towel at this point

There are plenty of posters on here whose favorite song is, "If Lovin' Butch is Wrong, I Don't Wanna be Right"

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Just because you desperately want things to not go well does not mean they aren't. Unnamed sources have no legs to stand on bra

If you actually think players quitting mid season are the norm, especially highly ranked guys like Hurd and Williams, then I can't help you bra.

If you think this season looked like the past three from a discipline standpoint on the field in terms of turnovers and penalties, then you weren't watching the games bra.

Thinking critically and objectively about a season that obviously went sideways is not hoping for failure. It's hoping to see something better in the future.

Wasn't even commenting specifically on unnamed versus named sources but anyone could see the product on the field not matching what was going on the previous three seasons.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

There are plenty of posters on here whose favorite song is, "If Lovin' Butch is Wrong, I Don't Wanna be Right"

I just responded to a case in point with one of those posters.

They'd rather maintain their status in the true Vol fan club than actually say a cross word about Jones or whichever coach is fronting the program. It was the same refrain under Fulmer, then Kiffin, then Dooley.

 

[bigsteve13]

I just saw it being passed around on facebook. Tired of seeing our program in the negative light.

You've come to the wrong place

 

[Mick]

"Reported facts from the 2016 season, however, seem to back those saying there were internal issues that undermined ultimate success:

Injuries riddled the team, particularly on the defensive side, but sources told us that philosophical squabbles between defensive assistants also undermined performance."

If this is the case who is the one bumping heads with Shoop? I will go out on a limb and say Thig. He may be a good recruiter but the product he put on the field, LBs that cannot shed a block and/or get in position to make a tackle, is not a trademark of a Shoop lead defense. They are more read and react than attack and disrupt.

This is just my speculation based on a statement, fact or fiction, from an article. I just don't imagine that Shoop told WM the he needs to get his DBs to turn to look for the ball and WM saying no we face guard around here.

 

[BeecherVol]

There are plenty of posters on here whose favorite song is, "If Lovin' Butch is Wrong, I Don't Wanna be Right"

Creative

 

[WesternKyVol]

No. It just means that Haney's article was very one sided and as such it suggests an agenda.

Yeah, there has to be another side to balance this out. Has to be. Butch couldn't possibly be a weak leader. He couldn't possibly be doing a bad job. Where are the positive voices?

 

[Boca Vol]

I just responded to a case in point with one of those posters.

They'd rather maintain their status in the true Vol fan club than actually say a cross word about Jones or whichever coach is fronting the program. It was the same refrain under Fulmer, then Kiffin, then Dooley.

You're exactly right. There were many on here that were hanging from Dooley's sack right up to the end.

If anyone mentioned in '10-'11 that Dooley wasn't the answer they were told they weren't "real fans" and told to go cheer for Bama, UF, Vandy, etc.

I don't understand the blind loyalty for a coach. I understand supporting the program. But the 2 are different. Supporting your school/team no matter what doesn't make that person a "good" fan. In fact, those are the worst fans. If the stadium is packed and the $$$ is rolling in, why change anything?

When Butch was hired, the slogan around here was, "Butch gets it." When UT went 5-7 in '13, the saying became, "Look at what Saban did in his 2nd year at Bama." Now it's, "Look at how long it took Saban to win at Mich. St." Or they're telling you not to focus on USCjr & Vandy but celebrate UF & UGA.

I think the article is spot-on in several aspects. Butch doesn't appear comfortable on this stage. It's one thing to say "Own It" in the off-season. It's another thing to actually "Owning It." This was a true example of talk is cheap.

I'm not completely surprised by the outcome. I thought all during the off-season there were an awful lot of green jerseys on the practice field. Sometimes having too much leadership backfires. I hope 2017 UT gets "back to basics" and is fundamentally sound. If that happens I think they'll compete for and probably win the SEC East.

I want UT to win every game it plays in every sport. I've been a fan since the late 70's (as far back as I can remember). I was a student there in the 90's, and still watch every game.

 

[zqvol]

"Reported facts from the 2016 season, however, seem to back those saying there were internal issues that undermined ultimate success:

Injuries riddled the team, particularly on the defensive side, but sources told us that philosophical squabbles between defensive assistants also undermined performance."

If this is the case who is the one bumping heads with Shoop? I will go out on a limb and say Thig. He may be a good recruiter but the product he put on the field, LBs that cannot shed a block and/or get in position to make a tackle, is not a trademark of a Shoop lead defense. They are more read and react than attack and disrupt.

This is just my speculation based on a statement, fact or fiction, from an article. I just don't imagine that Shoop told WM the he needs to get his DBs to turn to look for the ball and WM saying no we face guard around here.

People need to forget the injuries and look at the product on the field the first five games. It was horrible. They came out unprepared, and not ready to play. That went on all year, and in spite of what people want to think that is not on injuries.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

You're exactly right. There were many on here that were hanging from Dooley's sack right up to the end.

If anyone mentioned in '10-'11 that Dooley wasn't the answer they were told they weren't "real fans" and told to go cheer for Bama, UF, Vandy, etc.

I don't understand the blind loyalty for a coach. I understand supporting the program. But the 2 are different. Supporting your school/team no matter what doesn't make that person a "good" fan. In fact, those are the worst fans. If the stadium is packed and the $$$ is rolling in, why change anything?

When Butch was hired, the slogan around here was, "Butch gets it." When UT went 5-7 in '13, the saying became, "Look at what Saban did in his 2nd year at Bama." Now it's, "Look at how long it took Saban to win at Mich. St." Or they're telling you not to focus on USCjr & Vandy but celebrate UF & UGA.

I think the article is spot-on in several aspects. Butch doesn't appear comfortable on this stage. It's one thing to say "Own It" in the off-season. It's another thing to actually "Owning It." This was a true example of talk is cheap.

I'm not completely surprised by the outcome. I thought all during the off-season there were an awful lot of green jerseys on the practice field. Sometimes having too much leadership backfires. I hope 2017 UT gets "back to basics" and is fundamentally sound. If that happens I think they'll compete for and probably win the SEC East.

I want UT to win every game it plays in every sport. I've been a fan since the late 70's (as far back as I can remember). I was a student there in the 90's, and still watch every game.

Great points

 

[Mick]

People need to forget the injuries and look at the product on the field the first five games. It was horrible. They came out unprepared, and not ready to play. That went on all year, and in spite of what people want to think that is not on injuries.

Yea the problems were evident from the word Omaha and got worse.

 

[Boca Vol]

People need to forget the injuries and look at the product on the field the first five games. It was horrible. They came out unprepared, and not ready to play. That went on all year, and in spite of what people want to think that is not on injuries.

Spot on. And don't forget the fumbles. If anyone dared express any concern over the amount of fumbles they were told:

1. It doesn't matter, UT won.
2. Can't you just be happy for the win?
3. See 1 & 2...or
4. Go cheer for Bama, UF, etc.

 

[Roustabout]

Spot on. And don't forget the fumbles. If anyone dared express any concern over the amount of fumbles they were told:

1. It doesn't matter, UT won.
2. Can't you just be happy for the win?
3. See 1 & 2...or
4. Go cheer for Bama, UF, etc.

If anything the injuries kind of forced the offense to kick start it. They were turble early in the year.

 

[Roustabout]

I don't have any issues with the article. The writer tried to present both sides to the best of his ability.

That said, much of it is not something that comes as a surprise or a shock. Clearly, this team was not representative of the past three seasons. Teams known for discipline, one of the least penalized teams in the country, not many turnovers.

So, either it was just a weird year or something changed...maybe a little of both.

I remember the video of Hurd on the treadmill and thinking, surely no S&C coach would encourage or allow a key player to pull this kind of stunt. The risk of injury certainly out weigh whatever good could come from it. Then I shrugged it off, what do I know.

The good news is that there is time to get things fixed and in some ways, this is the best time to do it. A new QB and new backs, no problem in a terminology/scheme change if necessary, Coach Jones is going to have to let his coaches coach.

Year two of Shoop, hopefully with some guys that he's comfortable with, let him do what he needs to do.

Bring in a new S&C coach and give him all the leeway he needs and if players don't like it, or it's too tough...there might be a better school for them.

I made a comment about the stupidity of the treadmill and was ruthlessly mocked by the water carriers.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

Way, way to many anonamous sources! Sounds like someone has an ax to grind! Saying that, the article echos others sentiments!

 

[Roustabout]

You're exactly right. There were many on here that were hanging from Dooley's sack right up to the end.

If anyone mentioned in '10-'11 that Dooley wasn't the answer they were told they weren't "real fans" and told to go cheer for Bama, UF, Vandy, etc.

I don't understand the blind loyalty for a coach. I understand supporting the program. But the 2 are different. Supporting your school/team no matter what doesn't make that person a "good" fan. In fact, those are the worst fans. If the stadium is packed and the $$$ is rolling in, why change anything?

When Butch was hired, the slogan around here was, "Butch gets it." When UT went 5-7 in '13, the saying became, "Look at what Saban did in his 2nd year at Bama." Now it's, "Look at how long it took Saban to win at Mich. St." Or they're telling you not to focus on USCjr & Vandy but celebrate UF & UGA.

I think the article is spot-on in several aspects. Butch doesn't appear comfortable on this stage. It's one thing to say "Own It" in the off-season. It's another thing to actually "Owning It." This was a true example of talk is cheap.

I'm not completely surprised by the outcome. I thought all during the off-season there were an awful lot of green jerseys on the practice field. Sometimes having too much leadership backfires. I hope 2017 UT gets "back to basics" and is fundamentally sound. If that happens I think they'll compete for and probably win the SEC East.

I want UT to win every game it plays in every sport. I've been a fan since the late 70's (as far back as I can remember). I was a student there in the 90's, and still watch every game.

I mentioned it before, but last Christmas Butch stops by a dinner, (wasn't formally scheduled as a speaker) and he says a few words.
The speech wound into this sappy, circle the wagons spiel, to the point where one dumb ass in the crowd says, "we got your back coach."

I'm sitting there thinking. "This is a christmas dinner, what the hell is he talking about." This was not about him. Say something inspirational, something heart warming. Instead he is up there, essentially posturing. It was odd. I'm not sure someone who is so uptight, constantly looking over shoulder, so sensitive, and always ready to circle the wagons is cut out for this in the long run.

 

[Boca Vol]

I mentioned it before, but last Christmas Butch stops by a dinner, (wasn't formally scheduled as a speaker) and he says a few words.
The speech wound into this sappy, circle the wagons spiel, to the point where one dumb ass in the crowd says, "we got your back coach."

I'm sitting there thinking. "This is a christmas dinner, what the hell is he talking about." This was not about him. Say something inspirational, something heart warming. Instead he is up there, essentially posturing. It was odd. I'm not sure someone who is so uptight, constantly looking over shoulder, so sensitive, and always ready to circle the wagons is cut out for this in the long run.

Wow! I agree. Not the time or place to posture.

Butch seems like the guy that is always selling you on Butch. If you have to try that hard then usually the opposite is true.

I hope Butch works out, but the sample size is growing and the results are the same.

 

[jakez4ut]

Maybe so. Admittedly my optimism has gone down quite a bit since Vandy and I have had to eat a lot of my words. No one is a blind Butch supporter. We all want what is best for UT, and if he fails we will be right there with you to show him the door. Just haven't seen enough to throw in the towel at this point

that's fair. and look i've said it in a couple of other threads....i don't think all is well, though i'm encouraged by the recent days' recruiting news, but i don't think all is lost either.

i truly think he's at a fork in the road. as long has he's here, i'm always hoping he gets better, b/c i want this program to continue to get better.

so it's not a matter of "want to" with. i want Butch to be great. i'm rooting for it.

i just don't think he will be.

 

[golfballs]

Does Travis Haney know what a trend is? Someone may need to plot the numbers 5, 7, 9, 9(?) out for him, and draw a line that connects those dots and have him explain what kind of trend he can extrapolate from that.

This is the first season he's truly fallen short of expectations since his first year at Cincinnati, and he responded by winning a conference championship the next year.

As many others in this thread have said, I also take "unnamed sources" with a grain of salt. They almost always are people with an axe to grind. That is the bigger story to me- that there are disgruntled employees trying to undermine the football coach by anonymously talking to the media.

He's going to be the coach next year no matter what groveling fans and disgruntled UTAD employees want. So while things mentioned in the article may be true, and he has an off-season to address them, and it's likely not constructive for people to be airing the dirty laundry before that happens.