Vols trending Down (247 article)

[Wylo]

*The amount of turnovers -

No one is coached to fumble the ball

*Players leaving/pushed out -

Players left Alabama this year too. Downward trend?

*Constant bad press from cliche talk -

"Champions of life" was taken to mean something that it was not originally intended to. He was talking about graduating and succeeding in life not that we had won some kind of championship obviously. It sounded funny so media and other teams jumped on it. Big deal. "1-0 each week" is something that many coaches say in one form or another from peewee to the highest level. I have heard a variation of that many times when I played. It keeps teams from looking ahead or from falling apart after a loss. Coaches use cliches, nothing new.

*Vandy/South Carolina -

Questionable calls in those games cost us so I can't defend the losses. They are the main reason why Butch is on the hot seat for 2017 and why your argument against Butch is gaining momentum. If he has losses like these in 2017 you will get your wish.


*Started in top 10, tumbled -

to 21. Lower but considering the high expectations and injuries, not outrageous. A win over Nebraska would put us near the top 15.

*Blew the SEC east -

See previous comments about Vandy/USC

I don't believe we are seeing a downward trend yet. We could just be looking at a bad year with unfortunate injuries. Failure in 2017 would begin to show a trend and if there ever is a definite downward trend, Butch will be gone and I will be on board

Clearly the players were not focused on ball security, that falls on coaching when it's this prevalent.

Did Alabama lose their staying running back? Maybe Hurd was a flake, maybe he was telling the truth about Butch lying to him. Either way, it doesn't look good.

The champions of life thing was bad. It doesn't matter how he meant it. He said it and the entire sports world clowned him for it. Even if he meant it the way he says he did, it is not flattering to say at that point. He had to know better. If he doesn't, that's squarely on his shoulders. Perception becomes reality.

Vandy and south Carolina are inexcusable. USC coming off a bye and Vandy when playing for the sugar bowl. That's fire worthy at any big time school.

I think it's foolish to say a bad year next year would be the "start" of the decline. The red flags from this year are hard to ignore.

I see your points, but I just feel differently.

 

[pismonque]

Seems fishy with ole Butch Ball-less Jones out recruiting and hes losing commits and still hasn't had to explain what happened Saturday night. This is now a fecal storm of nonsense . Fire him now

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Some of you should take off until August. Never seen such crybaby group of fans that enjoy coaching changes every other year. Go out and do something productive.

Just sayin'.

 

[AM64]

Bingo.

I can't stand that "unnamed source" crap. It has zero cred with me. I can find anyone to say what I want if I don't have to name them.

Also, using a quote from an unnamed source to title your article reeks of bias and sensationalism.

For some reason, the media from this area thinks the only way they can be viewed as being credible by their peers is to go out of the way to rip the home team.

An "inside source" could simply be a VN poster claiming to be an insider or maybe a friend of the girlfriend of the locker room janitor. "Journalism" died years ago and morphed into opinion pieces that generate revenue through controversy.

 

[Poppa T]

... As I said earlier, it is hypocritical for anyone to criticize Butch Jones for not taking ownership without attaching their name to that criticism.

Does a screen name on an anonymous message board count?

 

[Carl Pickens]

Yep.

Surprised on the timing but not the content of the article in the least.

It's been clear for awhile things are not going well behind the scenes.

Unfortunately, that's more than 1 big time commitment can rectify.

Just because you desperately want things to not go well does not mean they aren't. Unnamed sources have no legs to stand on bra

 

[AM64]

The most telling quote to me was this one:

“Butch is not very comfortable in his own skin,” one source told us. “Until he has that, he’ll just never be a great coach. He’s not comfortable in his own skin in recruiting, play-calling, organization ...

“He’s great in a small setting, but he’s just not a comfortable guy.”

From a wannabe psychiatrist somewhere on the outside looking in. You really give credence to stuff like that?

 

[Carl Pickens]

Clearly the players were not focused on ball security, that falls on coaching when it's this prevalent.

Did Alabama lose their staying running back? Maybe Hurd was a flake, maybe he was telling the truth about Butch lying to him. Either way, it doesn't look good.

The champions of life thing was bad. It doesn't matter how he meant it. He said it and the entire sports world clowned him for it. Even if he meant it the way he says he did, it is not flattering to say at that point. He had to know better. If he doesn't, that's squarely on his shoulders. Perception becomes reality.

Vandy and south Carolina are inexcusable. USC coming off a bye and Vandy when playing for the sugar bowl. That's fire worthy at any big time school.

I think it's foolish to say a bad year next year would be the "start" of the decline. The red flags from this year are hard to ignore.

I see your points, but I just feel differently.

The champions of life thing was blown way out of proportion.... really out there..... a long way. A bunch of twats in the media took it and ran with it and the overemotionals got all butt hurt.

 

[volfan102455]

The "truth" attributed to unnamed sources. Daniel Hood consistently offered a differing opinion:

"'Certain guys had more of a voice than they deserve,' a source close to the team said. 'Certain guys would become team captains even though they didn’t earn it. When that happens, it dissolves trust the rest of the team has in you.'

A few former players and the media relations office refuted these claims.

'I don’t see any scenario where I believe there would be that type of favoritism. I just can’t see that,' said Hood, who played for Jones in his first season, 2013. 'I love the guy. I could say hands down that of every single coach I played for, that was the one staff that really got it from the top down.'"

What I want to know is which of the team captains did not deserve it? Dobbs? Sutton? Kamara? JRM? Seriously were they not picked by their teammates?

 

[BowlBrother85]

An "inside source" could simply be a VN poster claiming to be an insider or maybe a friend of the girlfriend of the locker room janitor. "Journalism" died years ago and morphed into opinion pieces that generate revenue through controversy.

Exactly right! That's why it is a wise policy to not respond to anonymous sources. Deer Park seems to be criticizing Jones and Hart for not answering Haney but I would bet that he was not about to tell them who said what. To build an entire article around anonymously given quotes suggests an agenda and is unprofessional.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

I have no idea about the validity of the article, but there's no question there was a noticeable difference in the character of team 120 as compared to the first three years of the CBJ era.

The team was just flat out "sloppier" and far more inconsistent than even his first-year team. Something changed. I get that every team is different, but the stupid penalties and unforced errors were far more this year. You don't attribute that to injuries.

All this article really does is offer one explanation for what we all saw.

I don't think he's a dead man walking. You can survive anything in most businesses as long as you perform. Memories are short term. If he wins, he's fine. If doesn't, he'll probably be gone after next or 2018 at the latest.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Does a screen name on an anonymous message board count?

It sure does... of course, I'm not the one criticizing Butch Jones for a lack of ownership.

 

[Sandman 423]

There are plenty of things you can say about Butch, including many things that are spoken in the article. The reason that I have an issue with the article is because of the sensationalism and the timing. It reeks of a hit piece. I don't think Haney necessarily has an agenda against Butch, I think that he knew this article would make a big splash and timed it perfectly to do so

My guess is that it was supposed to follow the huge loss of an instate 5* lineman.

 

[BeecherVol]

But they are supposed to be part of the solution, the media that is?

Had the piece been about Jones having the program stable after Dooley's mess and heading toward championships (real ones), and applauding Jones for reeling in a top recruit (assuming that he knew that when he was writing it) and claiming that sources say he is very comfortable and confident in everything that he did your response would be?
He has an agenda? They are rarely objective?

Bump for 102455

 

[SaintLouisVol]

. . .To build an entire article around anonymously given quotes suggests an agenda and is unprofessional.

They weren't anonymous to him. He just didn't report who they were. It was likely the condition on which they would speak, and he agreed to it.

It's not unprofessional. Unnamed sources is and long has been part of journalism. It happens every day in the news business. When it does, you have to decide if the journalist and publication are reputable. Most are not going to sacrifice a career for one story.

I am hardly a big fan of unnamed sources, but that doesn't mean that all of the quotes are not accurate. Without a name, the story lacks context. The quotes have no weight. Who said it can be as important as what they said.

But, the guy is by all accounts a reputable writer. I have no reason to believe the story is anything but accurate unless he can be discredited in some way.

 

[wmcovol]

I've been in sales for 40 yrs. I can tell you sales and recruiting are very similar.
1) you never sell anyone when you're not confident in yourself, your product.
2) if CBJ is this insecure, it won't change during the offseason. That is much deeper than a loss to Vandy. How has this not been uncovered before?
3) easy to find negativity in Knoxville starting week of Bama game. Never improved.
4) Firmly beleive it was to be the "final nail" after TS committed to Bama, O$U, etc.
5) Haney was let go by ESPN. Probably gets his job back now
6) no question this team and program will have intense pressure on it in 2017.

 

[BowlBrother85]

They weren't anonymous to him. He just didn't report who they were. It was likely the condition on which they would speak, and he agreed to it.

It's not unprofessional. Unnamed sources is and long has been part of journalism. It happens every day in the news business. When it does, you have to decide if the journalist and publication are reputable. Most are not going to sacrifice a career for one story.

I am hardly a big fan of unnamed sources, but that doesn't mean that all of the quotes are not accurate. Without a name, the story lacks context. The quotes have no weight. Who said it can be as important as what they said.

But, the guy is by all accounts a reputable writer. I have no reason to believe the story is anything but accurate unless he can be discredited in some way.

The problem is... the source can't be discredited because we don't know who it is. It is unfair to ask someone to defend themselves against attacks by those who are unwilling to put their names behind what they are saying.

 

[IndianaVolunteer]

The problem is... the source can't be discredited because we don't know who it is. It is unfair to ask someone to defend themselves against attacks by those who are unwilling to put their names behind what they are saying.

This.

Cowards.

 

[AM64]

Why is Travis Haney looking for Click-bait? He is a well-respected ESPN writer. I would imagine that this probably wouldn't have came out had Butch not took off to Purdue right after Vandy.

And you know Butch went to Purdue because you followed him or had an investigator follow him? You know first hand who he allegedly met with and why? The rumors I have heard over the years in the military and then in corporate life about what's happening next, etc would fill volumes - the ones that were correct could fit a page - maybe two. As far as knowledgeable sources and reports by well respected writers - ask Presidents Dewey and Clinton about the sure thing.

 

[feathersax]

I've been in sales for 40 yrs. I can tell you sales and recruiting are very similar.
1) you never sell anyone when you're not confident in yourself, your product.
2) if CBJ is this insecure, it won't change during the offseason. That is much deeper than a loss to Vandy. How has this not been uncovered before?
3) easy to find negativity in Knoxville starting week of Bama game. Never improved.
4) Firmly beleive it was to be the "final nail" after TS committed to Bama, O$U, etc.
5) Haney was let go by ESPN. Probably gets his job back now
6) no question this team and program will have intense pressure on it in 2017.

Is that you, Zig Ziglar?:crazy:

 

[volsatl57]

Unfortunately this article is in line with what I hear from players and other friends around the program involved in recruiting and stuff. It even shows on the field. Hope they can get it together with Blackburn Beug the catalyst. But I've heard from multiple players and people around the program that this is the issue and it stems from Butch not being liked by anyone. Also I was told by multiple players that the older guys referenced in Haneys article saying that they wanted the strength coach gone are the ones he let sit out workouts and they got hurt. I've been told Butch threatened to leave in the lockerroom after Vandy.

But like I said hopefully Blackburn can be the catalyst and Trey Smith is the player we need.

 

[Smokey'sHandler]

An "inside source" could simply be a VN poster claiming to be an insider or maybe a friend of the girlfriend of the locker room janitor. "Journalism" died years ago and morphed into opinion pieces that generate revenue through controversy.

Finally someone who gets it. I get that anonymous/inside sources are a part of journalism nowadays but remember not all anonymous/inside sources are correct and not all anonymous/inside sources are the same.

There are pieces that appear blatantly inaccurate particularly the part about undeserving players being picked as team captains which for me questions the validity of any source and the rest of the story.

 

[BowlBrother85]

They weren't anonymous to him. He just didn't report who they were. It was likely the condition on which they would speak, and he agreed to it.

It's not unprofessional. Unnamed sources is and long has been part of journalism. It happens every day in the news business. When it does, you have to decide if the journalist and publication are reputable. Most are not going to sacrifice a career for one story.

I am hardly a big fan of unnamed sources, but that doesn't mean that all of the quotes are not accurate. Without a name, the story lacks context. The quotes have no weight. Who said it can be as important as what they said.

But, the guy is by all accounts a reputable writer. I have no reason to believe the story is anything but accurate unless he can be discredited in some way.

Also, without the name of the source, Butch Jones and Dave Hart have no way to even verify that those quotes were ever even made. They could have been taken out of context, misquoted or even been completely fabricated. There is no way to know under the veil of anonymity. Haney used statements that are alleged to have been made. That is all.

...and Haney is not reputable 'by all accounts'... That's BS.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Finally someone who gets it. I get that anonymous/inside sources are a part of journalism nowadays but remember not all anonymous/inside sources are correct and not all anonymous/inside sources are the same.

There are pieces that appear blatantly inaccurate particularly the part about undeserving players being picked as team captains which for me questions the validity of any source and the rest of the story.

It sounds like someone might even be bitter that they weren't named a team captain last season while their fellow junior backup was. Gee, do we know of a disgruntled player from last year's team that quit during the season, who wasn't named a team captain and might have an ax to grind with Butch Jones? Might that same player also be resentful of Alvin Kamara - a team captain.

I think Haney went looking for negative quotes against Butch Jones and he knew exactly where to go... and not naming him as his source ensured that he would get what he wanted.

 

[vol66]

I don't have any issues with the article. The writer tried to present both sides to the best of his ability.

That said, much of it is not something that comes as a surprise or a shock. Clearly, this team was not representative of the past three seasons. Teams known for discipline, one of the least penalized teams in the country, not many turnovers.

So, either it was just a weird year or something changed...maybe a little of both.

I remember the video of Hurd on the treadmill and thinking, surely no S&C coach would encourage or allow a key player to pull this kind of stunt. The risk of injury certainly out weigh whatever good could come from it. Then I shrugged it off, what do I know.

The good news is that there is time to get things fixed and in some ways, this is the best time to do it. A new QB and new backs, no problem in a terminology/scheme change if necessary, Coach Jones is going to have to let his coaches coach.

Year two of Shoop, hopefully with some guys that he's comfortable with, let him do what he needs to do.

Bring in a new S&C coach and give him all the leeway he needs and if players don't like it, or it's too tough...there might be a better school for them.

 

[NashVol11]

Also, without the name of the source, Butch Jones and Dave Hart have no way to even verify that those quotes were ever even made. They could have been taken out of context, misquoted or even been completely fabricated. There is no way to know under the veil of anonymity. Haney used statements that are alleged to have been made. That is all.

...and Haney is not reputable 'by all accounts'... That's BS.

Are you alleging that he completely fabricated the quotes in his story?