Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

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#3,206
#3,206
This whole "champions of life" thing is getting way out of control. The level of sheer stupidity and fragility of some people is just mind boggling and downright embarrassing.
 
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#3,207
#3,207
jave36 said:
Rebuilding a broken program and taking a program all the way are two different skill sets. Butch is clearly, 100% proven he can take a program out of the dumps and make it respectable. I think the evidence so far has shown he may lack what it takes to go all the way to a championship. Squandering 4 (I think?) double digit leads in one year and having your team come out flat 11 out of 11 games the next year (arguably) aren't traits of a coach who can win it all. Maybe he'll improve, maybe he'll learn and get it done, but the evidence so far points to an elite rebuilder but not an elite "advancer" for lack of a better word.
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This is the first year it has even been remotely reasonable to expect that he wins any type of championship: The SEC East. Any other illusions of an SEC or National championship this season were completely unwarranted and unrealistic, even more so when we lost 20 players to injury.

It's year four of a complete rebuild of a complete and utter dumpster fire. He's putting every piece in place to have Tennessee in the hunt for the SEC title year in and year out. Rome wasn't built in a day, a year, or even four years. If he beats Vandy then we will have come up just short of our realistic expectation this season (the SEC title and 10 regular season wins), but given all of the injuries and that we played the two best West teams and Florida played the 4th and 5th best West teams, that should have been expected.

He's truly building this thing brick by brick and the foundation, the walls and the roof are already on the mansion. But it's still not finished. Give it a couple more years. By 2018, we'll be right in the thick of the CFP.
 
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#3,208
#3,208
if you believe a school considered a "lateral move" to an sec traditional power is gona try to hire butch away then ive got some brick by brick posters to sell you.
 
#3,211
#3,211
Butch desperately needs someone he respects to give him PR advice that he will actually listen to. Someone should compile some post-game presser film of the most respected coaches for butch to review.
 
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#3,213
#3,213
GoBigOrangeVols said:
This is the first year it has even been remotely reasonable to expect that he wins any type of championship: The SEC East. Any other illusions of an SEC or National championship this season were completely unwarranted and unrealistic, even more so when we lost 20 players to injury.

It's year four of a complete rebuild of a complete and utter dumpster fire. He's putting every piece in place to have Tennessee in the hunt for the SEC title year in and year out. Rome wasn't built in a day, a year, or even four years. If he beats Vandy then we will have come up just short of our realistic expectation this season (the SEC title and 10 regular season wins), but given all of the injuries and that we played the two best West teams and Florida played the 4th and 5th best West teams, that should have been expected.

He's truly building this thing brick by brick and the foundation, the walls and the roof are already on the mansion. But it's still not finished. Give it a couple more years. By 2018, we'll be right in the thick of the CFP.
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Regardless or record, squandering 4 double digit leads and having your team come out flat 11 straight times is evidence (not proof) that he's not the kind of coach who can advance a good team to elite status.
 
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#3,215
#3,215
jave36 said:
Rebuilding a broken program and taking a program all the way are two different skill sets. Butch is clearly, 100% proven he can take a program out of the dumps and make it respectable. I think the evidence so far has shown he may lack what it takes to go all the way to a championship. Squandering 4 (I think?) double digit leads in one year and having your team come out flat 11 out of 11 games the next year (arguably) aren't traits of a coach who can win it all. Maybe he'll improve, maybe he'll learn and get it done, but the evidence so far points to an elite rebuilder but not an elite "advancer" for lack of a better word.
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3 double digit leads I believe. I felt like we turned the corner in that UGA game in 2015. You are being a little harsh with your 11 out of 11 comment. I didn't see that. Maybe on defense we've came out playing bad. I wouldn't say "flat." Something has been off with this team. I am starting to believe it was chemistry but that's Jones job too.

Butch Jones was exactly what we needed when we hired him. He's got the program where it needs to be. If he were to leave then I think we would be able to attract a good coach. Timing is what concerns me. You lose your coach in mid January after the big boys have scooped up the hot commodities and you end up with a Dooley type. Not to mention we have a lame duck AD. Last time we did that we hired Cuonzo Martin.

Rebuilder vs advancer - this is Johnny Majors vs Philip Fulmer comparison. Johnny built the race car better than Fulmer could have but Fulmer could drive it faster. Problem with Fulmer was that when it came time to do maintenance on it, he didn't know how.

My hope with Butch has always been that he would gravitate towards being more CEO type and delegate more as he made better hires. He's proven he will make tough decisions. Shoop hire took stones. Let's hope he upgrades the assistants this winter to continue our climb.
 
#3,217
#3,217
BigZiti09 said:
3 double digit leads I believe. I felt like we turned the corner in that UGA game in 2015. You are being a little harsh with your 11 out of 11 comment. I didn't see that. Maybe on defense we've came out playing bad. I wouldn't say "flat." Something has been off with this team. I am starting to believe it was chemistry but that's Jones job too.

Butch Jones was exactly what we needed when we hired him. He's got the program where it needs to be. If he were to leave then I think we would be able to attract a good coach. Timing is what concerns me. You lose your coach in mid January after the big boys have scooped up the hot commodities and you end up with a Dooley type. Not to mention we have a lame duck AD. Last time we did that we hired Cuonzo Martin.

Rebuilder vs advancer - this is Johnny Majors vs Philip Fulmer comparison. Johnny built the race car better than Fulmer could have but Fulmer could drive it faster. Problem with Fulmer was that when it came time to do maintenance on it, he didn't know how.

My hope with Butch has always been that he would gravitate towards being more CEO type and delegate more as he made better hires. He's proven he will make tough decisions. Shoop hire took stones. Let's hope he upgrades the assistants this winter to continue our climb.
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Agreed mostly, except Shoop hire didn't take stones. He was a consensus top DC in the nation, anyone would have taken him. And on coming out flat, we haven't had a single first quarter, IMO, where offense and defense both played well.
 
#3,218
#3,218
Catbone said:
Can't seem to shake the feeling that if Butch can't get it done and win the east while the east is WAY down for his entire four year tenure here, he simply never will. The east should be much better next year, and we will likely take a step back. Perhaps the most telling sign of trouble is recruiting beginning to slip away. 21 three stars doesn't cut it in the SEC.
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You are absolutely clueless.
 
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#3,219
#3,219
Wouldn't blame Butch at all if he left after the season (although I doubt that happens). If he does, the next guy won't be a home run, won't be anyone "elite", UT doesn't pay that kind of money. Alabama makes Saban an offer he can't refuse. UT doesn't do that sort of thing. Or maybe the new leadership will decide to go Bama style next hire?
 
#3,220
#3,220
jave36 said:
Arky radio still making fun of champions of life comment
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Guess we'll just let this fanbase lure the next great coach with our appealing support that starts before the guy is even hired. Sells itself.
 
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#3,221
#3,221
jave36 said:
Regardless or record, squandering 4 double digit leads and having your team come out flat 11 straight times is evidence (not proof) that he's not the kind of coach who can advance a good team to elite status.
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Well from this logic if you don't come out and lead every game from the first quarter on then you think it is evidence (not proof) that the coach can't advance a good team to elite status.

How about sometimes last year the team came out strong but didn't have the horsepower to finish, and sometimes this year the team showed huge resiliency, fight and horsepower and overcame large deficits to win games from behind.

Just because we don't score first doesn't mean he can't coach at an elite level. For Christ's sake, Saban was down to UT at home in the 4th quarter last year and then was getting blown out by Ole Miss this year before coming back to win... Does that mean he can't coach at an elite level because his teams had to rally to win!?
 
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#3,223
#3,223
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Well from this logic if you don't come out and lead every game from the first quarter on then you think it is evidence (not proof) that the coach can't advance a good team to elite status.

How about sometimes last year the team came out strong but didn't have the horsepower to finish, and sometimes this year the team showed huge resiliency, fight and horsepower and overcame large deficits to win games from behind.

Just because we don't score first doesn't mean he can't coach at an elite level. For Christ's sake, Saban was down to UT at home in the 4th quarter last year and then was getting blown out by Ole Miss this year before coming back to win... Does that mean he can't coach at an elite level because his teams had to rally to win!?
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Break it down. I said 11 out of 11 games we came out flat. You turned that into "we have to score first and lead every game and come out fast every game."

Surely you see the difference. I didn't say elite coaches always start fast and finish fast. But Saban has never had a season where his team squandered 3 or 4 double digit leads, and he's never had a season where his team didn't have a single complete first quarter.
 
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