Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

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#2,326
#2,326
GoBigOrangeVols said:
MLB: Kirkland, Jumper, Bituli
OLB: Sapp, Berry, McDowell
Nb: Gaulden, Osborne
CB: Mosely, Buchanan
CB: Martin, freshman
S: Abernathy, Warrior, Berry
S: TK jr, Griffin
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This is just my opinion but Mosley has been burnt so many times as well as Buchanan. Martin hasn't shown much either. The depth is what concerns me at LB. Just hope some freshman shine and step up to help.
 
#2,328
#2,328
Does those two post qualify me as an expert and insider? I have been in training for a while now. My trainers are Tony and Bruin. I felt they where the best ones available. :D
 
#2,331
#2,331
I'm going to say Butch has certainly brought the program back to relevance, but has made numerous missteps that are causing the fan base to wonder is this the ceiling for him or can he change and take this program to the next level.

There are four key losses that should have been wins, but the conservative nature of the staff cost the team; OU, UF, and ARK last year where we held significant leads against each and could not hold them. The USCe loss this year. Dobbs had a horrible game and they never gave QD a chance to see if he could give the team a spark. We don't know if that would have made a difference, but we know the result of not doing that, an ugly loss to an inferior team starting a true freshman QB, all coming after a bye week.

These four losses all show an inflexibility to make in-game adjustments and Butch doesn't seem to learn from his losses. My biggest concern right now is this is going to be the norm going forward under Butch. Always losing a game or two we shouldn't that keeps us from reaching the potential of the players and the constant barrage of cliches and coach speak for explanations. Every coach will have an unexpected loss occasionally, I'm starting to feel this is going to be a yearly occurrence. Hope I'm wrong and Butch can grow as a coach and make the necessary changes.
 
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#2,335
#2,335
Orange Studs said:
This is just my opinion but Mosley has been burnt so many times as well as Buchanan. Martin hasn't shown much either. The depth is what concerns me at LB. Just hope some freshman shine and step up to help.
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It will be interesting to see if Byrd is moved to DB in the offseason.
 
#2,338
#2,338
Vols4us said:
Great, now we have posters that are happy with the offense because they scored a lot of points against the #82 and #116 rated defenses as well as against a 5 win FCS team. Glad it is happening, but in no way does that compensate for 8 first halves in a row of an offensive, dumbly called offense similar to the one that got Fulmer fired that eventually cost this team a shot at the SECCG.

Some on here are missing the main point about Hurd. The Butch/Debored decision to start him and play call for him, yet not scheme for him, should tell you something valuable. Either, they found it more important to showcase him in a bad fitting offense for whatever reasons regardless of the results, or, they didn't know any better and felt he was their best option. It was a boneheaded move.

For this program to achieve an elite level, the Butch and buddy coach thing needs to be broken up. Hire the best coaches available and hold them accountable for the results.
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Scored a few points against Florida too. LSU could not do that.
 
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#2,339
#2,339
vol2002 said:
This season has so many similarities to Cuonzo martin's last basketball team. Fans bailed on him early for failing to play consistently and beat everyone fans thought they should. He rights the ship, takes them to the sweet sixteen and they play Michigan to the wire. Season ends and Cuonzo bolts, sick of working hard for a fanbase that enjoys crucifiying its coaches more than it does cheering on its team

If we win out and win the sugar bowl, coach jones may look like a good commodity.

Would he bolt, middle finger in the air ?

Be interesting to see the fiasco of a coaching hire without stability at ad. If any fanbase deserves that I think certain elements of ours does. We have way to many complainers. I'm not sure which seasons in the past 15 years spoiled our fans so much.
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Everytime I see someone saying this, I just laugh at the thought of Butch finding a school that will pay us $12,000,000 for the rights to hire Butch.

That last contract extension Butch gave Hart made it difficult for him to leave or be fired. He's not going anywhere for another season or two at least.
 
#2,340
#2,340
Darth_Shiveman said:
Everytime I see someone saying this, I just laugh at the thought of Butch finding a school that will pay us $12,000,000 for the rights to hire Butch.

That last contract extension Butch gave Hart made it difficult for him to leave or be fired. He's not going anywhere for another season or two at least.
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If I had an all time top 10 program that needed to be rebuilt from the ground up there's no doubt I'd pay $12 to hire Butch. He's proven that he can take a down and out program with great facilities and cash and rebuild it to some semblance of what it has been previously.

That being said, the number isn't $12. It's $4 on his side.

"Jones, who is 20-17 overall in three seasons at Tennessee, would owe the Volunteers $4 million if he leaves before Feb. 28, 2017 and $3 million if he leaves between that date and Feb. 28, 2018.

Jones's buyout is $2 million if he leaves before Feb. 29, 2020 and $1 million if he departs before the expiration of his contract."

--Times Free Press
Butch Jones receives $500,000 raise from Tennessee | Times Free Press
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#2,341
#2,341
Aesius said:
It's gotta be a personality thing with Butch. He's just not a very likeable guy when he's spouting off cliches 24/7 and never going off script. I think it's hard for many people, even in our own fanbase, to truly root for him because of that. I don't know much about Charlie Strong, but apparently he's a very genuine guy. So much so that people thought he wouldn't be able to handle all the schmoozing required to be the Texas head coach.
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This is one factor with me. I think Butch would get so much more slack if he would just have a human moment every now and then in press conferences.

How hard would it have been for him to say "I'm disapointed for this team and our fans that we won't be playing in Atlanta, but I'm proud of this team for the way they've fought through adversity this season."?

To me, his complete unwillingness to admit culpability or spout anything other than cliches to the media is indicative of an unwillingness to change or admit when he's made a mistake. IMO that's what will lead to his downfall at Tennessee.


He's done, at worst, a respectable job thus far and more than deserves a chance to make some changes moving forward and get the program back on top. But I just haven't seen him show any evidence that he's going to do it.

Hopefully bringing in Blackburn will change the dynamic of the way Butch works a bit and elevate what he's doing and who he'll bring in.
 
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#2,342
#2,342
knoxville's finest said:
Put debord in charge of Oline and get a qb coach.
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JacketVol said:
Very good position coach and was involved in teaching technique. We have regressed tremendously since he left. I mentioned how we should get him back after his first year gone and was laughed at by most. Now, you want him back. Glad you guys came around and figured it out.

I would like us to bring him back and besides Strip, let BS bring whomever he wants. Keep DeBoard and hire a QB coach while replacing Mahoney. If you can make a big OC hire then do it but just like we saw with BS and other first year coordinators, it is difficult in the first year adjustment with a new DC or OC. As much as i have yelled while at Neyland to DeBoard, he has me thinking one more year with continuity may be best. We do not need Stoops to leave.
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I'm kind of hoping things shake out like this:

Mahoney isn't renewed
Debord takes over OL duty
Azzani takes an opportunity elsewhere as a Co OC or OC (which will make the next move possible)
We bring in a Co-OC/QB coach (Future OC once Debord retires in a season or two)
New WR coach as well.
 
#2,343
#2,343
delfonic said:
If I had an all time top 10 program that needed to be rebuilt from the ground up there's no doubt I'd pay $12 to hire Butch. He's proven that he can take a down and out program with great facilities and cash and rebuild it to some semblance of what it has been previously.

That being said, the number isn't $12. It's $4 on his side.
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Per my understanding, those are per year numbers.

So, at worst, 6 million to hire Butch.


As for a team needing be rebuilt from the ground up, sure, I get that argument. But the schools in that position with the money to pay Butch's buyout (whatever it may be) have deep enough pockets to afford much better options.

The schools that would take him can't afford him right now.

Edit: So I've looked into it more and I misunderstood. We'd owe him that much per year but his buyout for a new job is much lower. Will drop to 3 million early next year (though sources have differed on this..some said it drops to 3 million in 2018).

However, I'm still not sure if there would be some other fees schools would have to pay
 
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#2,344
#2,344
So in that case it does make the prospect of another P5 school hiring away Butch more plausible if he really wanted to jump. However he is one of the top 20 highest paid coaches already though.

I still think that any school who has the resources to pony up the money for the buyout and a raise for Butch would most likely go after other options first. Most likely if Butch leaves it would be a lateral move for relatively similar money. Which would mean he really wants to be elsewhere (a la Cuonzo).
 
#2,345
#2,345
BigOrangeVols said:
Who is he going to beat deep in the NFL?
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There are slower WRs who are good deep threats in the NFL. And faster ones who haven't done $#!+ in their careers. 4.4 speed never helped Justin Hunter.

If Malone doesn't make it, it won't be because of his speed anyway. It will be because he's built like a deep threat but is a bit of a body catcher and doesn't use his size the way you'd hope a guy his size might. There are a lot of smaller guys than him in the NFL who play bigger.
 
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#2,347
#2,347
LA Vol said:
The cliches were bad enough, but CBJ has created an adversarial relationship with the media. That whole back pocket list thing... "let me educate you"... the way he handled Hurd leaving in the presser... Cleatgate... and now saying he never talked about winning the East-- he just keeps making them dislike him. So they make him look bad whenever they can-- and unfortunately it reflects badly on UT.
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I must have missed it but what is cleatgate?
 
#2,349
#2,349
Can't seem to shake the feeling that if Butch can't get it done and win the east while the east is WAY down for his entire four year tenure here, he simply never will. The east should be much better next year, and we will likely take a step back. Perhaps the most telling sign of trouble is recruiting beginning to slip away. 21 three stars doesn't cut it in the SEC.
 
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#2,350
#2,350
AV_12 said:
FTR, I wouldn't be surprised to see josh run better than 4.5 when that time comes.
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I watched him run a 4.5. After practice Butch called him out. He dropped his shell, walked up, and ran. Dude will smoke a 4.5 at the combine. If he can run that after practice with no training, 4.3 is a real possibility.
 
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