Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXIX

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#6,876
#6,876
& I hate the fact that I've been so negative but this loss just really destroyed any faith I had that Butch can get it done here.

Plus we've looked poorly coached in every single game this year outside of a few quarters which is just inexcusable in year 4.
 
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#6,877
#6,877
amazingGRACE said:
& I hate the fact that I've been so negative but this loss just really destroyed any faith I had that Butch can get it done here.

Plus we've looked poorly coached in every single game this year outside of a few quarters which is just inexcusable in year 4.
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Yeah, he's an average coach. That's why we are average
 
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#6,879
#6,879
BigZiti09 said:
This is the kinda crap that should stay in house even if it were true.

This world is full of crybaby tattle tales.
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Exactly what I'm saying. I don't have much faith in Butch anymore, but I don't want to nuke the program to get him fired either. That is stupidity. I just want him to get his ish together, and hire a real OC, Ol and WR coach.
 
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#6,881
#6,881
Orange Studs said:
I just called everyone a DODO Head and then I read this . LOL j/k
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lol. I don't mean to say that we can't be immature or joke -- we should probably be doing that more, tbh. It's just that when I see those things it tells me that poster isn't willing to have a more mature conversation about something. It's not all the time -- the kind of posters that do this are pretty obvious about having their minds made up and being mouth-breathers. I suppose it's the kind of thing where 'you know it when you see it.' :)
 
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#6,882
#6,882
I get where folks want the truth to have its edge smoothed out a bit for fears about recruiting and such. Every program has issues of some types that gets swept under the rug. Fans don't mind as much when the program is winning. When it isn't or times are uneven then serious fans drill down deeper. I see that as a good thing, it means they care. HC's see it as a threat to their employment. Don't see that changing.

GFW just laid a gem on you. Pay attention. It speaks about the development approach to the program by Butch.
 
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#6,883
#6,883
amazingGRACE said:
& I hate the fact that I've been so negative but this loss just really destroyed any faith I had that Butch can get it done here.

Plus we've looked poorly coached in every single game this year outside of a few quarters which is just inexcusable in year 4.
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Yep, you are clearly in our group. Prepare your shield for the arrows.
 
#6,888
#6,888
amazingGRACE said:
& I hate the fact that I've been so negative but this loss just really destroyed any faith I had that Butch can get it done here.

Plus we've looked poorly coached in every single game this year outside of a few quarters which is just inexcusable in year 4.
Click to expand...

A lot of that negativity has to do more with what we've been through over the years when CBJ wasn't here than it has to do with him. As fans we've been burnt so many times that one mistake causes us to lose faith because we've been taught not to trust.

That's something I always try to keep in mind when evaluating Jones. Are we getting better as a program? Absolutely. Was that a terrible loss? Hell yes. Is my reaction to it and feeling that we're never going to get it done based entirely in CBJ and what the program has done since he's been here? No.

Those are all things to consider when you go down the road of panic and negativity.
 
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#6,890
#6,890
jave36 said:
And when we blow out TTU, it will be proof we got rid of the problem
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And what's so wrong with that? This team has had an identity and attitude problem all year. They've been unlike every other team CBJ has fielded here despite most of them being the same players. They've lacked discipline and have been distracted.

In short, they've been a hot mess and 99 percent of it has been mental.

Locker room problems can cause a lot of that and we just got rid of one. We can win the rest of our games and maybe even wind up in the SECCG depending on how it goes. We also have the chance to once again improve our W/L record which is yet another sign of improvement.

It's like people fear that winning out is somehow a bad thing. I don't get that. Are people just afraid that winning means there won't be any changes? If so, I'm pretty darn sure there will be regardless of how the season finishes.
 
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#6,892
#6,892
UTProf said:
And what's so wrong with that? This team has had an identity and attitude problem all year. They've been unlike every other team CBJ has fielded here despite most of them being the same players. They've lacked discipline and have been distracted.

In short, they've been a hot mess and 99 percent of it has been mental.

Locker room problems can cause a lot of that and we just got rid of one. We can win the rest of our games and maybe even wind up in the SECCG depending on how it goes. We also have the chance to once again improve our W/L record which is yet another sign of improvement.

It's like people fear that winning out is somehow a bad thing. I don't get that. Are people just afraid that winning means there won't be any changes? If so, I'm pretty darn sure there will be regardless of how the season finishes.
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Winning isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is the annoying narrative that Hurd was the problem, not coaching, and acting like blowing out an FCS team is proof.
 
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#6,893
#6,893
UTProf said:
A lot of that negativity has to do more with what we've been through over the years when CBJ wasn't here than it has to do with him. As fans we've been burnt so many times that one mistake causes us to lose faith because we've been taught not to trust.

That's something I always try to keep in mind when evaluating Jones. Are we getting better as a program? Absolutely. Was that a terrible loss? Hell yes. Is my reaction to it and feeling that we're never going to get it done based entirely in CBJ and what the program has done since he's been here? No.

Those are all things to consider when you go down the road of panic and negativity.
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All good points but I wouldn't say it's panic, at least on my end. It's been building since the UF, OU & Arkansas games last year.

Most everyone here would agree that his strength is recruiting & he's an extremely average to poor in game coach. Like someone stated earlier, we're literally 2-3 lucky bounces from being 3-5 right now.

His vaunted cornerstone 2014 class has a whopping 12 members already gone from the program with probably more to come in the offseason since every program has attrition.

His 2016 & 17 (so far) classes have been extremely underwhelming & mediocre especially compared to the heavy hitters in the SEC. It was said hundreds of times "get to Atlanta & the recruiting will take care of itself"..well he pissed away that opportunity.

I feel like we're starting to see more now what kind of recruiter Butch really is. The 2014 class was a perfect storm that was just loaded with legacies & instate guys that bought in to the pitch that they could be playing for an SEC title & possible national title their junior year. Our goals can't be met now & we're missing out on some big time in state guys. Granted I know we can't get them all.

So his strength as a recruiter is starting to seem not as strong as it once was..add that to him being an average coach..not exactly a recipe for success in the years to come.
 
#6,895
#6,895
amazingGRACE said:
All good points but I wouldn't say it's panic, at least on my end. It's been building since the UF, OU & Arkansas games last year.

Most everyone here would agree that his strength is recruiting & he's an extremely average to poor in game coach. Like someone stated earlier, we're literally 2-3 lucky bounces from being 3-5 right now.

His vaunted cornerstone 2014 class has a whopping 12 members already gone from the program with probably more to come in the offseason since every program has attrition.

His 2016 & 17 (so far) classes have been extremely underwhelming & mediocre especially compared to the heavy hitters in the SEC. It was said hundreds of times "get to Atlanta & the recruiting will take care of itself"..well he pissed away that opportunity.

I feel like we're starting to see more now what kind of recruiter Butch really is. The 2014 class was a perfect storm that was just loaded with legacies & instate guys that bought in to the pitch that they could be playing for an SEC title & possible national title their junior year. Our goals can't be met now & we're missing out on some big time in state guys. Granted I know we can't get them all.

So his strength as a recruiter is starting to seem not as strong as it once was..add that to him being an average coach..not exactly a recipe for success in the years to come.
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Not sure how you can say that about the 2016 class. I think there could be stars in the making from that class.
 
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#6,899
#6,899
VolGee4 said:
Not sure how you can say that about the 2016 class. I think there could be stars in the making from that class.
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I mean there's obviously some good players don't get me wrong. But as a whole, top to bottom, it's fairly weak. 7th in the conference on 24/7 composite.
 
#6,900
#6,900
jave36 said:
Winning isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is the annoying narrative that Hurd was the problem, not coaching, and acting like blowing out an FCS team is proof.
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Well maybe he was a major part of the problem. We don't know how much of a problem he was but we do know that this has been a team that has been distracted, hasn't executed well, has been undisciplined and has been unlike every other team we've had in that regard. We can blame playcalling and there is no doubt that there have been mistakes made at times there but a lot of our problems have been execution.

This offense has been highly effective before. Last season it produced one of the best rushing years we've ever had and that production and the return of the the same players was the reason we were ranked so highly in the first place.

We've had stupid calls but we've also seen that the offense can carry the load -- it did so last year. It's done a great job before and has produced mind-boggling numbers this year (see TAMU) despite the erraticness and bizarre 1st half versus 2nd half play but we've also seen sloppy play, an incredible amount of penalty yards for a CBJ coached team and what has been a very undisciplined team. Those things are mental things.

Dobbs is an erratic player. Always has been and always will be but he's also been our best option because when he's on he's brilliant. It's just that when he is off he's terrible (see South Carolina).

Next year we'll have a new QB and very likely a new OL coach. A new QB will very likely be less up and down than Dobbs (Dobbs is pretty unique in that regard and a double edged sword of a player to reference another poster). We may even have a new OC but in fairness to Debord he's played the hand he's been dealt and a lot of that hand has been terrible OL play and mental mistakes by players.

That said, I have no doubt that changes will be made with regard to certain coaches.
 
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