How We Got To Here: Christianity Version

[volprof]

I wouldn't be able to explain in person, yet alone over the internet. its kinda the point.

when stephen hawking couldn't explain black holes w/ "old physics" he came up with quantum mechanics. Stop trying to use your old physics to explain my quantum God. (forgive me for any incorrectness on the science, remember I only live, breath & eat the bible)

Your "quantum God"? Jesus Christ, guy! Are you serious?

Are you voting for Trump or not? That's all I really need to know.

 

[apevol]

Gotcha. I didn't interpret your post to mean "historically" when you said "a long way to go", but rather that you were just saying that atheists currently don't have nearly the influence as Christians. :hi:

That's because I am so very good, and you are so very bad. I vill break you.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

That's because I am so very good, and you are so very bad. I vill break you.

There's the Ape I dislike and have no respect for.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

I am a liberal Christian. I do have a few questions for my conservative bros.

How do you accept divorce but not homosexuality? There is more speaking out against divorce in the Bible than homosexuality. Plus all sins are equal.

How do you reconcile being conservative and anti social programs when some of the main tenets of the Bible are charity and giving to your fellow man? The main Republican talking point against so called "handouts" spits in the face of everything Jesus taught.

Republicans would trash Jesus if he was a contemporary figure for working with the poor and downtrodden and advocating so many social causes.

Actually, thats a myth. While personal charity is commanded in the bible, Jesus never once spoke about politics other than paying taxes to Caesar, once. The whole "Jesus was a socialist/liberal" is a LIE. PERIOD.

Also, as far as government handouts go...God himself said "if a man will not work, LET THAT MAN NOT EAT.".

Also says that any man who doesnt sypport his family will answer to God himself for it.

So people that are poor because they are disabled and truly unable to work? Bible says we shoild help them..as individuals, person to person or thru the church.

The vast vast majority of lazy americans who sit on their butts smoking dope and drinking living off my taxes? God says they should starve to death, then be punished for their laziness. Its all in the book.

Btw...i grew up poor and am lower middle class. Blue collar management. Earned my families way the hard way, and will never be rich.

 

[Septic]

Which group (believers or non-believers) do you think had the biggest influence in getting gay marriage laws passed Ape?

The Constitution was written by mostly secular diests. You know, equal protection and whatnot.

 

[volprof]

Actually, thats a myth. While personal charity is commanded in the bible, Jesus never once spoke about politics other than paying taxes to Caesar, once. The whole "Jesus was a socialist/liberal" is a LIE. PERIOD.

Also, as far as government handouts go...God himself said "if a man will not work, LET THAT MAN NOT EAT.".

Also says that any man who doesnt sypport his family will answer to God himself for it.

So people that are poor because they are disabled and truly unable to work? Bible says we shoild help them..as individuals, person to person or thru the church.

The vast vast majority of lazy americans who sit on their butts smoking dope and drinking living off my taxes? God says they should starve to death, then be punished for their laziness. Its all in the book.

Btw...i grew up poor and am lower middle class. Blue collar management. Earned my families way the hard way, and will never be rich.

That's not what the Bible says at all.

The Bible doesn't talk about "lazy" people "unwilling to work."

It just says you should give, because it is, of course, imperfect, like any attempt by humanity to include every single moral principle possible in one single book.

You're spinning it for your own personal politics.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

That's not what the Bible says at all.

The Bible doesn't talk about "lazy" people "unwilling to work."

It just says you should give, because it is, of course, imperfect, like any attempt by humanity to include every single moral principle possible in one single book.

You're spinning it for your own personal politics.

Um...no you are dead wrong. Get put your concordance and read.

 

[volprof]

Um...no you are dead wrong. Get put your concordance and read.

I will not get put my concordance, whatever that means in Trump talk, and I will insist that you provide us with examples of your claims.

Where does it speak to "lazy people" in the New Testament. I have no doubt the Great Big Ole' Fat Book of Radical Hebrew Ultranationalism does, but I'm talking about Jesus's international project. Where does he say this?

I made the mistake of associating Heaven with harps and halos early in this thread. That was wrong on my part, and I admitted my mistake, like a man.

Are you willing to do the same? And I work 60 hours a week like you now, mind you, so you can't use that one anymore.

 

[joevol33]

I will not get put my concordance, whatever that means in Trump talk, and I will insist that you provide us with examples of your claims.

Where does it speak to "lazy people" in the New Testament. I have no doubt the Great Big Ole' Fat Book of Radical Hebrew Ultranationalism does, but I'm talking about Jesus's international project. Where does he say this?

I made the mistake of associating Heaven with harps and halos early in this thread. That was wrong on my part, and I admitted my mistake, like a man.

Are you willing to do the same? And I work 60 hours a week like you now, mind you, so you can't use that one anymore.

2 Thessalonians 3:10- for even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

That's in reference to being lazy.

 

[Roustabout]

Antagonist? Hardly. You gave a logical and reasonable explanation for Noah and the great flood. I simply wondered if you had the same for Jonah and the big fish.

The fish is actually a pretty small part of the story.

I have never said that a person's faith has no place in government, I've said that a persons faith should not dictate laws and policies in government.

OK, explain how a persons worldview and ethic doesn't influence policy? It's called cognitive dissonance. It is absolutely a foundational part of my being that humans have intrinsic, objective value, and this is based on my ultimate view of God being their creator.

Our founders NEVER made such nonsensical claims. They instituted prayer and the reading of scripture and often had religious services inter mixed with governmental meetings. Faith positions influenced public policy.

The difference may seem slight, but I view it as absolutely essential. Some laws seek to force the religious beliefs of some on to all. Again blue laws...

Blue laws are not an undo burden on anyone. If the public wants to vote to get rid of them, i'm fine with it.

Gay marriage I also view in this light. If one cannot separate how one, based upon ones religious affiliation, feels about the issue then that person has no place making laws.

That is absolute nonsense. You are claiming that an atheistic ethic is superior with nothing to ground this upon. You are essentially saying that a religious view cannot correspond to reality. I do agree that the religious view should be able to be grounded. I do not hold that something should be illegal simply because a religious books says so. However, a religious position may be the right view, and therefore be applicable to public policy.

Many people of faith want to ban gay marriage for religious reasons and, if you are honest, you will likely admit that your primary objection is religious in nature. I know many people that believe that gays are going to hell, but don't oppose gay marriage.

I cannot separate my worldview into fragments. Of course, all of my positions are influenced in some degree or another by my Christian world view, just as your stance on certain positions is also influenced by your worldview. Again, you are essentially dismissing a Christian view as having no ontological value or grounding, outside of personal opinion.

I have respect for people that do not hold jobs because they conflict with their religious views. If you think that drinking liquor is inherently evil then I wouldn't expect to find you working in a bar. Now contrast that with the clerk in Kentucky that refused to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples because it conflicted with her religious views. I would have respected her more, if after fighting the battle and losing she had honored her convictions and resigned. She did not and decided to force her religious views upon all.

This is really a different matter than whether people with religious views can or cannot influence public policy.
In this case, i do not disagree. She was called to apply the law, which disagreed with her personal convictions, and yes, she should have resigned. I 100% agree. You simply can't equate this to abortion and lobbying for stricter abortion laws.

 

[volprof]

2 Thessalonians 3:10- for even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

That's in reference to being lazy.

Are these Jesus's reported words or those of the "reformed" radical Jewish ultranationalist, sometimes referred simply to as "Paul"?

 

[apevol]

Are these Jesus's reported words or those of the "reformed" radical Jewish ultranationalist, sometimes referred simply to as "Paul"?

I like Paul. He ate a bunch of geriatric meth and predicted the future. But even he found that it isn't enough to hold back the gates against jihad.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Are these Jesus's reported words or those of the "reformed" radical Jewish ultranationalist, sometimes referred simply to as "Paul"?

Aren't you the one who typically whines about moving the goal posts? Below is your exact quote, and while it does reference Jesus it's clear you were referring only to the NT.

Where does it speak to "lazy people" in the New Testament. I have no doubt the Great Big Ole' Fat Book of Radical Hebrew Ultranationalism does, but I'm talking about Jesus's international project. Where does he say this?

 

[LouderVol]

Something I hadn't realized about you until now, since you're generally otherwise rational, is that you're also a Trump voter, aren't you?

That would explain your aim for me to stop speaking about him in the Ukraine thread.

This is all starting to make sense now. I couldn't understand what your deal was last week, but this makes sense now.

nope. I would never vote for Trump. Once again I am abstaining, I don't like any of the third parties either. I will only ever vote for someone, never against someone else.

i am for the truth. Trump isn't it imo, but telling one side of the story (just the anti Trump) is intellectually dishonest when there is another side to tell that is just as relevant (Hillary's ties to Russia). and I don't like the blatantly dishonest-ness of just harping on Trump, no matter how justified, in a thread that has nothing to do with him.

its why I keep trying to get Ras and Pacer to throw some mud at Russia when warranted. but even when they have been caught (Russia) they ignore it. this is the same imo.

 

[joevol33]

Are these Jesus's reported words or those of the "reformed" radical Jewish ultranationalist, sometimes referred simply to as "Paul"?

It's Paul, but in the New Testament. I only posted as an example of the NT. Again, I have zero issues helping the poor at all. Do you honestly support giving to people who can, and are able to work, but simply refuse to because they just don't want to? That has zero to do with faith, if you're to lazy to get a job, why should I have to give you my money? Why do people have a problem with this? If I go into work tonight and quit I'll be in financial trouble quickly, so are you willing to personally send me a check each week? If not, then how can you guys condemn anybody who has a problem with people becoming dependent on handouts? That's what you refuse to see, it's not the poor or needy that are a problem, it's the lazy and you guys know as well as me that it's the truth. There are people who will not work, and expect (that's what gets me), the rest of us to kill ourselves to give them more. It's bullcrap, and unless you're willing to send me a weekly check, you have no ground to stand on in judging any Christian, or republican who doesn't want to do the same.

 

[Roustabout]

That's not what the Bible says at all.

The Bible doesn't talk about "lazy" people "unwilling to work."

It just says you should give, because it is, of course, imperfect, like any attempt by humanity to include every single moral principle possible in one single book.

You're spinning it for your own personal politics.

I suggest you read the Psalms and Proverbs. It has a lot to say about sloth.

 

[volprof]

I suggest you read the Psalms and Proverbs. It has a lot to say about sloth.

Also has a lot to say about Hebrew ultranationalism and eliminating all others.

 

[volprof]

nope. I would never vote for Trump. Once again I am abstaining, I don't like any of the third parties either. I will only ever vote for someone, never against someone else.

i am for the truth. Trump isn't it imo, but telling one side of the story (just the anti Trump) is intellectually dishonest when there is another side to tell that is just as relevant (Hillary's ties to Russia). and I don't like the blatantly dishonest-ness of just harping on Trump, no matter how justified, in a thread that has nothing to do with him.

its why I keep trying to get Ras and Pacer to throw some mud at Russia when warranted. but even when they have been caught (Russia) they ignore it. this is the same imo.

Thank god. Another idiot in the world is the last thing we needed.

 

[Roustabout]

Churches are great with charity.People here that claim to be Christian and are Republicans have stated many times their disdain for programs that help the poor though. Many believe they should be eliminated. The main republican talking point regarding social programs is that they are handouts that should not exist. That doesn't sound too Christian. All the rhetoric is that the people are just lazy and looking for free stuff. The Christian thing would not be to judge the poor people, but to help them.

Have you asked yourself why? They should be eliminated. Charity is not meant to be a lifestyle. Many if not most of the programs create a cycle of dependency (slavery)

When the government extorts money from the citizens to redistribute to others, it is isn't charity. When i give, i can examine the need and distribute through effective channels. It's been shown over and over again that government is bloated, wasteful and ineffective.

Come on down to the inner-city with me and put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Roustabout]

Thank god. Another idiot in the world is the last thing we needed.

Well, your **** out of luck, buddy.

 

[volprof]

Aren't you the one who typically whines about moving the goal posts? Below is your exact quote, and while it does reference Jesus it's clear you were referring only to the NT.

Yes, you're right. I sold myself down the river with that mistake.

As you aptly point out, it was the reformed ultranationalist murderer who made comments about moochers.

 

[volprof]

Well, your **** out of luck, buddy.

Believe me, I know. Trumpers are going to win, and you and I are going to have to clean up their utopian nonsense.

 

[LouderVol]

Yes, you're right. I sold myself down the river with that mistake.

As you aptly point out, it was the reformed ultranationalist murderer who made comments about moochers.

they were all "reformed ultra nationalists".

and I wonder how it fits into your argument that Jesus studied and quoted from the OT? i don't think he ever quoted some of your ultra nationalist stuff, but he did use it as a source.

 

[LouderVol]

Believe me, I know. Trumpers are going to win, and you and I are going to have to clean up their utopian nonsense.

yay, democracy. two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

 

[volprof]

they were all "reformed ultra nationalists".

and I wonder how it fits into your argument that Jesus studied and quoted from the OT? i don't think he ever quoted some of your ultra nationalist stuff, but he did use it as a source.

No, Jesus was the natural anti-fascist push you get in any ethnic ultranationalist society. He, assuming he even existed, figured that those idiots were short-changing themselves and that the best way to gain power was by shifting the message - an international one.

Selling the populace on internationalism and eternal life is a brilliant move. It's unthinkable to me that no one ever thought of this before "Jesus." How did this happen? Seriously? How did no one else think of this?

Of course, Muhammad, never one to skip a beat, stole it from Jesus, but how did this happen!

It seriously baffles me.