How We Got To Here: Christianity Version

[joevol33]

Butch?

Nice catch.

 

[k-town_king]

I've honestly never seen anyone celebrate divorce, but it's usually one party who leaves. If your spouse wants to leave you can't make them stay. Would I be right to judge you if your wife cheated, or left? I don't think so, you can't control another persons actions. So if your wife left, would it be fair to say, "well you must not be Christian cause you got a divorce "? That's a situation between you, your spouse, and God. I feel the same about homosexuals, regardless of my opinion, it's between them and God.

Its not that that people praise it, its that its no big deal to them. According to the Bible it is just as bad if not worse than being gay. We don't have people trying to regulate divorce and many obviously don't care that Trump has been divorced many times.

What about the Bible telling us to feed the poor and take care of our fellow man who isn't as fortunate as we are? That goes against the entire Republican platform.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

I think you're over thinking elections.

C'mon Ape... you should know me better than that. I enjoy thinking, but I prefer to keep things simple. So let's ask it another way.

1.) Would you describe today's media organizations... broadcast (e.g. major networks), print (e.g. major publications), social (e.g. facebook, etc.) as being more believers or non-believers?

2.) Would you agree that the same media described above carries a major influence on present day elections?

 

[volprof]

thats the problem with assuming we all fit in one nice little box, and why you shouldn't make assumptions. and Christian isn't even a lump term for believers. You have Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans etc etc and all the flavors they come in, who are all going to hell for believing in the wrong thing. and then you also have Catholics who have got it ALL figured out.

IMO, trying to get to heaven is like trying to win a most humble contest, its self defeating.take care of the process (faith) and the end (heaven) takes care of itself. I won't speak for other people though.

I appreciate your sincerity and your not overreacting like a mad man, when called out. But I just still don't understand this. It makes no sense to me. You seem happy though, in your belief system, and I always applaud that. Just please don't ever think the rest of us should have to live by it, which I don't think you do. So more power to you.

 

[apevol]

C'mon Ape... you should know me better than that. I enjoy thinking, but I prefer to keep things simple. So let's ask it another way.

1.) Would you describe today's media organizations... broadcast (e.g. major networks), print (e.g. major publications), social (e.g. facebook, etc.) as being more believers or non-believers?

2.) Would you agree that the same media described above carries a major influence on present day elections?

Even if you're right, you're not accounting for the entirety of what I said. You're also assuming that not many homosexuals identify as Christians.

 

[VolnJC]

I'll make a deal, I'll stop making these threads if you guys can make this happen.

1) All forms of religion should lose 501(c)(3) status
2) Return the Pledge of Allegiance to pre 1954 words
3) Remove reference to god on currency

Do that and I'm good.

 

[apevol]

I'll make a deal, I'll stop making these threads if you guys can make this happen.

1) All forms of religion should lose 501(c)(3) status
2) Return the Pledge of Allegiance to pre 1954 words
3) Remove reference to god on currency

Do that and I'm good.

I can't do any of those things

 

[volprof]

I'll make a deal, I'll stop making these threads if you guys can make this happen.

1) All forms of religion should lose 501(c)(3) status
2) Return the Pledge of Allegiance to pre 1954 words
3) Remove reference to god on currency

Do that and I'm good.

Will never happen. They're too busy defending their rule from arrogant Volnation usurpers.

 

[LouderVol]

That is very well put, but none of this explains "liberal democracy."

Honestly, Christianity - but not necessarily Christians - is one of the biggest things we have to thank for our liberal democracy. Christianity's emphasis has always been on the self and its relationship with God. You should try to spread it when able, but the main focus is on the relationship between self and God.

That kind of self-mindedness, combined with Greek democracy and other factors, eventually led to our liberal democracies.

That is where you Christians admittedly have us Paganists (again, I'm actually an atheist, but ascribe more to Pagan values, especially the Roman) beat. Paganism would never produce something like liberal democracy. This is true. Although the pagans produced our first democracies, "liberal democracy" is something they would have found silly and stupid.

That being said, we need a more paganistic approach these days to our liberal democracy. Christianity is too focused on the self, while paganism utilizes the self as a vehicle of communal expression and integration. With pagans, it was never a matter of whether or not they believed "properly," it was simply a matter of the masculine protection of one's immediate community.

this has gone way off topic.

 

[joevol33]

Its not that that people praise it, its that its no big deal to them. According to the Bible it is just as bad if not worse than being gay. We don't have people trying to regulate divorce and many obviously don't care that Trump has been divorced many times.

What about the Bible telling us to feed the poor and take care of our fellow man who isn't as fortunate as we are? That goes against the entire Republican platform.

I understand what you're saying, and it has gotten bad when the divorce rate is over 50%. The other part I've never understood. People claim Christians are against helping the poor, which is opposite of what Jesus taught. I've never personally seen it in any church I've been associated with. (Cause mostly Christians get accused of all being republican). I know in our county alone there are at least 5 churches that have a food bank, and give free food with no questions asked once a week. The two big churches have programs set up to help people pay utilities. Now they don't just give money, they verify the bill and help pay it. I've heard people say they wouldn't help, which turned out they just wanted cash, and there wasn't a bill. Our church does dinner for a halfway house once s month. I could name s bunch more, but the point is we help. How we got the bad rap of being against the poor is where I think (and my fair question to volprof comes in), that its influenced by politics. Do I think if you're able to work that you should? Heck yes. Do I think you should lose benefits if you just want to sit home able bodied and do nothing? Heck yeah, but that doesn't make me a hypocrite, or non Christian. I think our country should take care of our own over illegals, or immigrants also. That's not my faith, it's common sense, but politicians don't do that. I just have never met a Christian, or republican who thinks we should let people starve.

 

[joevol33]

I'll make a deal, I'll stop making these threads if you guys can make this happen.

1) All forms of religion should lose 501(c)(3) status
2) Return the Pledge of Allegiance to pre 1954 words
3) Remove reference to god on currency

Do that and I'm good.

Okay, but let's be fair. You want that based off of your beliefs, so you get schools to stop teaching my kids we came from a monkey. Deal? I mean, if fair is fair and all, or you guys just want everyone to bow to your personal beliefs, while you complain about ours????

 

[apevol]

Okay, but let's be fair. You want that based off of your beliefs, so you get schools to stop teaching my kids we came from a monkey. Deal? I mean, if fair is fair and all, or you guys just want everyone to bow to your personal beliefs, while you complain about ours????

These are also not equivalent.

 

[k-town_king]

I understand what you're saying, and it has gotten bad when the divorce rate is over 50%. The other part I've never understood. People claim Christians are against helping the poor, which is opposite of what Jesus taught. I've never personally seen it in any church I've been associated with. (Cause mostly Christians get accused of all being republican). I know in our county alone there are at least 5 churches that have a food bank, and give free food with no questions asked once a week. The two big churches have programs set up to help people pay utilities. Now they don't just give money, they verify the bill and help pay it. I've heard people say they wouldn't help, which turned out they just wanted cash, and there wasn't a bill. Our church does dinner for a halfway house once s month. I could name s bunch more, but the point is we help. How we got the bad rap of being against the poor is where I think (and my fair question to volprof comes in), that its influenced by politics. Do I think if you're able to work that you should? Heck yes. Do I think you should lose benefits if you just want to sit home able bodied and do nothing? Heck yeah, but that doesn't make me a hypocrite, or non Christian. I think our country should take care of our own over illegals, or immigrants also. That's not my faith, it's common sense, but politicians don't do that. I just have never met a Christian, or republican who thinks we should let people starve.

Churches are great with charity.People here that claim to be Christian and are Republicans have stated many times their disdain for programs that help the poor though. Many believe they should be eliminated. The main republican talking point regarding social programs is that they are handouts that should not exist. That doesn't sound too Christian. All the rhetoric is that the people are just lazy and looking for free stuff. The Christian thing would not be to judge the poor people, but to help them.

 

[LouderVol]

You're right, we all get blamed! And for the record, the only problem this Baptist has with you Catholics is the fighting Irish football 😁

an old joke but a good one. What the difference between a Catholic and a Baptist? Catholics don't ignore each other in the liquor store.

 

[joevol33]

These are also not equivalent.

To you guys they aren't, but to me they are. Thus my fairness comment. Which I only say because we are accused of voting solely on our faith. I've never voted for someone who does, or doesn't believe evolution. I say that to show volprof and jc their comments about all of us aren't truth.

 

[joevol33]

an old joke but a good one. What the difference between a Catholic and a Baptist? Catholics don't ignore each other in the liquor store.

Ha

 

[VolnJC]

Okay, but let's be fair. You want that based off of your beliefs, so you get schools to stop teaching my kids we came from a monkey. Deal? I mean, if fair is fair and all, or you guys just want everyone to bow to your personal beliefs, while you complain about ours????

I don't have a problem with leaving evolution out..still would like to see Mendel and the punnett square though I home school so I control all content

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Even if you're right, you're not accounting for the entirety of what I said. You're also assuming that not many homosexuals identify as Christians.

This is the entirety of what you said.

I have a lot of respect for you, Joe. But atheists have a long way to go when it comes to influencing elections compared to christians.

So my point about the medias' influence on elections goes directly to what you said. What else am I leaving out?

And as to your second point above, you have no idea what I may or may not be assuming (and I don't assume very much), and it's a bit unlike you to may a comment like that. You doing okay today?

 

[volprof]

this has gone way off topic.

Something I hadn't realized about you until now, since you're generally otherwise rational, is that you're also a Trump voter, aren't you?

That would explain your aim for me to stop speaking about him in the Ukraine thread.

This is all starting to make sense now. I couldn't understand what your deal was last week, but this makes sense now.

 

[apevol]

To you guys they aren't, but to me they are. Thus my fairness comment. Which I only say because we are accused of voting solely on our faith. I've never voted for someone who does, or doesn't believe evolution. I say that to show volprof and jc their comments about all of us aren't truth.

They're not equivalent because noone is madating that we put 'in Darwin we trust' on currency. Or making our kids pledge allegiance to carrier pidgeons.

 

[joevol33]

Churches are great with charity.People here that claim to be Christian and are Republicans have stated many times their disdain for programs that help the poor though. Many believe they should be eliminated. The main republican talking point regarding social programs is that they are handouts that should not exist. That doesn't sound too Christian. All the rhetoric is that the people are just lazy and looking for free stuff. The Christian thing would not be to judge the poor people, but to help them.

I agree, if able we should help. That's honestly my biggest kick towards democrats (not attacking anyone personally). They preach about helping the poor when it comes to communities, immigrants, and refugees, yet we have so many veterans, homeless, and hungry kids here who get nothing. They're dying on waiting lists for healthcare, while an illegal can get help today. We have hungry kids here, but they're talking about kids in Syria (I agree 100% they're important), they should take care of home, then others. This is from my faith "if a man provide not for his own he is worse than an infidel". What kind of man would I be if I let my wife and kids go hungry, but provided for a family in Florida? That's what our government does. That's what kills me with politics, we're so stubborn that our people get no help. One of my closest and longest friends here in Georgia is a black liberal democrat at work like yourself, and a Christian. I'll tell you why I love the man like a brother, we disagree about politics, guns, and even football! Yet every time we're together at work, he'll pull me into the back part of the break room and pray that our common things will outshine the uncommon so we can be a help to others. To me, he is the man.

 

[apevol]

This is the entirety of what you said.



So my point about the medias' influence on elections goes directly to what you said. What else am I leaving out?

And as to your second point above, you have no idea what I may or may not be assuming (and I don't assume very much), and it's a bit unlike you to may a comment like that. You doing okay today?

Yes, its what I said. The precise meaning is that Christians have been influencing elections for a much longer time and what they believe has had a vastly more significant impact on policy. I'll give you the victory on media tampering for the last few decades. But even that goes both ways.

 

[joevol33]

I don't have a problem with leaving evolution out..still would like to see Mendel and the punnett square though I home school so I control all content

I thought only anti government Christian people homeschooled?!!! (I kid). We did it for two years and my kids loved it, but my wife's health was a problem. It was a state homeschool program with the same curriculum (which ironically we started because of her health).

 

[LouderVol]

I appreciate your sincerity and your not overreacting like a mad man, when called out. But I just still don't understand this. It makes no sense to me. You seem happy though, in your belief system, and I always applaud that. Just please don't ever think the rest of us should have to live by it, which I don't think you do. So more power to you.

I wouldn't be able to explain in person, yet alone over the internet. its kinda the point.

when stephen hawking couldn't explain black holes w/ "old physics" he came up with quantum mechanics. Stop trying to use your old physics to explain my quantum God. (forgive me for any incorrectness on the science, remember I only live, breath & eat the bible)

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Yes, its what I said. The precise meaning is that Christians have been influencing elections for a much longer time and what they believe has had a vastly more significant impact on policy. I'll give you the victory on media tampering for the last few decades. But even that goes both ways.

Gotcha. I didn't interpret your post to mean "historically" when you said "a long way to go", but rather that you were just saying that atheists currently don't have nearly the influence as Christians. :hi: