How We Got To Here: Christianity Version

#151
#151
LouderVol said:
really? what modern line of thinking doesn't have a foundation from the greeks? who took it from the Egyptians who took it from the ......
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The Greeks had no concept of a liberal, participatory democracy. Neither did the Romans, although both were starts in the right direction.

The Egyptians couldn't give a damn about democracy, because they never even heard of it.
 
#152
#152
volprof said:
Thank you for your candidness. This is what I figured, and it explains your posts here. Like most other Christians, you want so desperately to live forever that you're willing to suspend all reason and will then attack another poster for his "unreasonableness" upon those same unreasonable grounds.
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attack? I have questioned, which is all you have purported to do.

you are again flipping the end goal and the process. I ultimately don't care if I make it to a heaven. What I care about is living the Christian life and my faith.

another terrible analogy I might use is the Route 66 vs the interstate. I believe the drive is just as important as the destination, if not more so.
 
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#153
#153
volprof said:
Thank you for your candidness. This is what I figured, and it explains your posts here. Like most other Christians, you want so desperately to live forever that you're willing to suspend all reason and will then attack another poster for his "unreasonableness" upon those same unreasonable grounds.
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wow... and I thought I'd only get to use this gif the one time.

tumblr_lyve1vD4Bx1qh5aclo1_500.gif
 
#155
#155
LouderVol said:
attack? I have questioned, which is all you have purported to do.

you are again flipping the end goal and the process. I ultimately don't care if I make it to a heaven. What I care about is living the Christian life and my faith.

another terrible analogy I might use is the Route 66 vs the interstate. I believe the drive is just as important as the destination, if not more so.
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So, you're not a Christian?

What the hell are you?

I'm so tired of these mental gymnastics my pups even think you're spinning us.

You don't care if you make it to Heaven? What the hell is the purpose of your faith then? You need an ancient entity to convince you that you ought to treat people with respect?

I swear, some of you must just be yanking my chain to see what I say in response. There's no way you believe this nonsense.
 
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#156
#156
volprof said:
The Greeks had no concept of a liberal, participatory democracy. Neither did the Romans, although both were starts in the right direction.

The Egyptians couldn't give a damn about democracy, because they never even heard of it.
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look east, and look small. Specifically some areas around nepal and Indonesia. even among European tribes democracy was a thing to an extent. unfortunately they were never the strongest and you don't hear about them now. (I also think the inherent indecision of democracy allowed some of the autocratic tribes to take advantage)

Athens had a concept on democracy, it certainly wasn't a true democracy but neither was the US until we passed a couple Amendments, and they took it from a persian source.

even Alexander's veteran retirement cities had some smattering of democracy.

now the liberal side you may have an argument, but depending on your definition I still don't think we have a true example of it.

all of this is still a straw man, not talking about how you see politics, but how you interact with the world.
 
#158
#158
I am a liberal Christian. I do have a few questions for my conservative bros.

How do you accept divorce but not homosexuality? There is more speaking out against divorce in the Bible than homosexuality. Plus all sins are equal.

How do you reconcile being conservative and anti social programs when some of the main tenets of the Bible are charity and giving to your fellow man? The main Republican talking point against so called "handouts" spits in the face of everything Jesus taught.

Republicans would trash Jesus if he was a contemporary figure for working with the poor and downtrodden and advocating so many social causes.
 
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#160
#160
volprof said:
If that's all Christians were about, I'd have no problem with them. That's not all they're about, however.

But, I much prefer you all as neighbors over Muslims, so that should gain me at least a point or two with the anti-Muslim crowd on here. At least Christianity leaves some room for secular society in its book, unlike Islam.
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Then what are we about? You don't know me, or anyone in my church, but claim to know what we're about? No, none of us are perfect, but we don't spend Sunday mornings talking about politics like apparently you think we do. As a matter of fact, I've never heard my pastor mention Obama, Hillary, or trump from the pulpit. He's never even mentioned local elections. Sure I may lean towards a candidate that is pro-life, but how is that wrong from another citizen leaning towards pro- choice? From reading these posts from you and others it's only wrong if we're Christian, so whatever we vote is wrong. Explain to me please why you think it's okay for you to vote your convictions, but I can't because I'm a Christian. That's very hypocritical when you're trying to complain that we're the ones trying to influence elections.
 
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#161
#161
joevol33 said:
Then what are we about? You don't know me, or anyone in my church, but claim to know what we're about? No, none of us are perfect, but we don't spend Sunday mornings talking about politics like apparently you think we do. As a matter of fact, I've never heard my pastor mention Obama, Hillary, or trump from the pulpit. He's never even mentioned local elections. Sure I may lean towards a candidate that is pro-life, but how is that wrong from another citizen leaning towards pro- choice? From reading these posts from you and others it's only wrong if we're Christian, so whatever we vote is wrong. Explain to me please why you think it's okay for you to vote your convictions, but I can't because I'm a Christian. That's very hypocritical when you're trying to complain that we're the ones trying to influence elections.
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I have a lot of respect for you, Joe. But atheists have a long way to go when it comes to influencing elections compared to christians.
 
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#162
#162
k-town_king said:
I am a liberal Christian. I do have a few questions for my conservative bros.

How do you accept divorce but not homosexuality? There is more speaking out against divorce in the Bible than homosexuality. Plus all sins are equal.

How do you reconcile being conservative and anti social programs when some of the main tenets of the Bible are charity and giving to your fellow man? The main Republican talking point against so called "handouts" spits in the face of everything Jesus taught.

Republicans would trash Jesus if he was a contemporary figure for working with the poor and downtrodden and advocating so many social causes.
Click to expand...

I've honestly never seen anyone celebrate divorce, but it's usually one party who leaves. If your spouse wants to leave you can't make them stay. Would I be right to judge you if your wife cheated, or left? I don't think so, you can't control another persons actions. So if your wife left, would it be fair to say, "well you must not be Christian cause you got a divorce "? That's a situation between you, your spouse, and God. I feel the same about homosexuals, regardless of my opinion, it's between them and God.
 
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#163
#163
apevol said:
I have a lot of respect for you, Joe. But atheists have a long way to go when it comes to influencing elections compared to christians.
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I'm not arguing that, just asking him how his view is fair. As a Christian, I don't feel like voting for anyone this election, but as an American I'm going to. It'll have nothing to do with my faith is kinda what I mean.
 
#164
#164
LouderVol said:
look east, and look small. Specifically some areas around nepal and Indonesia. even among European tribes democracy was a thing to an extent. unfortunately they were never the strongest and you don't hear about them now. (I also think the inherent indecision of democracy allowed some of the autocratic tribes to take advantage)

Athens had a concept on democracy, it certainly wasn't a true democracy but neither was the US until we passed a couple Amendments, and they took it from a persian source.

even Alexander's veteran retirement cities had some smattering of democracy.

now the liberal side you may have an argument, but depending on your definition I still don't think we have a true example of it.

all of this is still a straw man, not talking about how you see politics, but how you interact with the world.
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That is very well put, but none of this explains "liberal democracy."

Honestly, Christianity - but not necessarily Christians - is one of the biggest things we have to thank for our liberal democracy. Christianity's emphasis has always been on the self and its relationship with God. You should try to spread it when able, but the main focus is on the relationship between self and God.

That kind of self-mindedness, combined with Greek democracy and other factors, eventually led to our liberal democracies.

That is where you Christians admittedly have us Paganists (again, I'm actually an atheist, but ascribe more to Pagan values, especially the Roman) beat. Paganism would never produce something like liberal democracy. This is true. Although the pagans produced our first democracies, "liberal democracy" is something they would have found silly and stupid.

That being said, we need a more paganistic approach these days to our liberal democracy. Christianity is too focused on the self, while paganism utilizes the self as a vehicle of communal expression and integration. With pagans, it was never a matter of whether or not they believed "properly," it was simply a matter of the masculine protection of one's immediate community.
 
#165
#165
joevol33 said:
I'm not arguing that, just asking him how his view is fair. As a Christian, I don't feel like voting for anyone this election, but as an American I'm going to. It'll have nothing to do with my faith is kinda what I mean.
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I haven't been reading the thread. VP can be confrontational, so I dunno the context. So nvm.
 
#167
#167
apevol said:
I have a lot of respect for you, Joe. But atheists have a long way to go when it comes to influencing elections compared to christians.
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Which group (believers or non-believers) do you think had the biggest influence in getting gay marriage laws passed Ape?
 
#170
#170
apevol said:
I have a lot of respect for you, Joe. But atheists have a long way to go when it comes to influencing elections compared to christians.
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Yep. Look how those Christians pushed gay marriage to be law. Their influence on laws and society is unthinkable...
 
#171
#171
volprof said:
So, you're not a Christian?

What the hell are you?

I'm so tired of these mental gymnastics my pups even think you're spinning us.

You don't care if you make it to Heaven? What the hell is the purpose of your faith then? You need an ancient entity to convince you that you ought to treat people with respect?

I swear, some of you must just be yanking my chain to see what I say in response. There's no way you believe this nonsense.
Click to expand...


thats the problem with assuming we all fit in one nice little box, and why you shouldn't make assumptions. and Christian isn't even a lump term for believers. You have Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans etc etc and all the flavors they come in, who are all going to hell for believing in the wrong thing. and then you also have Catholics who have got it ALL figured out. :)

IMO, trying to get to heaven is like trying to win a most humble contest, its self defeating.take care of the process (faith) and the end (heaven) takes care of itself. I won't speak for other people though.
 
#173
#173
LouderVol said:
thats the problem with assuming we all fit in one nice little box, and why you shouldn't make assumptions. and Christian isn't even a lump term for believers. You have Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans etc etc and all the flavors they come in, who are all going to hell for believing in the wrong thing. and then you also have Catholics who have got it ALL figured out. :)

IMO, trying to get to heaven is like trying to win a most humble contest, its self defeating.take care of the process (faith) and the end (heaven) takes care of itself. I won't speak for other people though.
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Butch?:p
 
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#175
#175
LouderVol said:
thats the problem with assuming we all fit in one nice little box, and why you shouldn't make assumptions. and Christian isn't even a lump term for believers. You have Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans etc etc and all the flavors they come in, who are all going to hell for believing in the wrong thing. and then you also have Catholics who have got it ALL figured out. :)

IMO, trying to get to heaven is like trying to win a most humble contest, its self defeating.take care of the process (faith) and the end (heaven) takes care of itself. I won't speak for other people though.
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You're right, we all get blamed! And for the record, the only problem this Baptist has with you Catholics is the fighting Irish football 😁
 
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