Azzanni: 'This is not a pro-style huddle game anymore'

#105
#105
Vol_is_Lyfe18 said:
That argument is so worn out. It's like saying I'm not allowed to criticize the cashier at Kroger when she's ringing up all my stuff really slow....but what do I know, scanning groceries isn't my expertise.
Click to expand...

Perfect analogy. Guess we can't comment on the job the cable company, the car dealership or the president is doing either. It's a stupid thing to say and the second I see it I know the person saying it has surrendered/lost the argument.
 
#106
#106
VOLINVONORE said:
Yep. It is amusing to watch youth football players expose their lack of football knowledge.
Click to expand...

Youth football players? Lol. There are a lot of very knowledgable fans, media members and even former Vol wide receivers who have questioned Azzani's tactics, coaching methods and ultimately, his effectiveness as our WR coach and passing game coordinator. So keep on with the "youth football" strawman, but it's beyond a legit topic for discussion on a fan forum message board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#107
#107
Often the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But I guess that doesn't make for an entertaining stance on message boards so you won't see it too much.

1) The hate rhetoric for Coach Z is juvenile and needs to stop. That said the lack of production from his group will draw criticism and it's justified to begin questioning.

2). We are a run first / dink and dump passing team. It should be obvious to all that CBJ is conservative. You wont get a lot of WR production with that philosophy so CZA has his hands tied to some extent. That said, the playbook should open up some this year and it's fair to say CZA and the WR group will be under a microscope.

I'm not saying we have little leaguers on this board trying to be coaches but it does seem that people want PlayStation stats from a group in which the offense they are a part of isnt designed to produce those numbers. In that sense, some of the criticism is a bit perplexing,

If you want to analyze WR separation, crisp route running, maybe even sub patterns then ok but the plays haven't been called to allow these monstrous stats that some are so pissed off bc they aren't present. And seriously, I dont want to see a pass to run ratio as compared to BCS teams blah blah...we all know what a pass play called by CBJ looks like typically: quick hitter, try to shake a guy and fight for a couple yards, then will hand to Hurd and we'll March our way down field in small chunks.

Sorry for the long post. I just want to call a spade a spade and get that out there. Considering the overwhelming frustration with CZA on this thread, I'm sure it's not a popular sentiment in this forum.

But Happy Tuesday to all, any Holy Crap it's almost Football Time in Tennessee!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#108
#108
VolFreakJosh said:
I don't think a bunch of random people on a message board knows more about coaching on the college level than Butch and his staff. It's funny to see them try to act like "experts" at college football. But that's none of my business.
Click to expand...

When people cling to authority so much that the idea that people who have been watching football their whole lives might be able to observe some valid shortcomings of a coach ON A MESSAGE BOARD without considering themselves qualified to coach anything beyond pee wee football challenges them. Now THAT my friend, is funny.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#110
#110
VolFootballIsLife said:
2). We are a run first / dink and dump passing team. It should be obvious to all that CBJ is conservative. You wont get a lot of WR production with that philosophy so CZA has his hands tied to some extent. That said, the playbook should open up some this year and it's fair to say CZA and the WR group will be under a microscope.

If you want to analyze WR separation, crisp route running, maybe even sub patterns then ok but the plays haven't been called to allow these monstrous stats that some are so pissed off bc they aren't present.

...we all know what a pass play called by CBJ looks like typically: quick hitter, try to shake a guy and fight for a couple yards, then will hand to Hurd and we'll March our way down field in small chunks.

Considering the overwhelming frustration with CZA on this thread....
Click to expand...

Here is the mentality (as I see it from the interview -- of all the things Azz could have emphasized in Tennessee's passing game from 2015 leading in to 2016, HE chose "speed" -- now, compare 40 yard dash speeds + speed charts hanging on the wall, to what you just emphasized above, to the real issues):

"“In practice, you get a feel for how many reps a guy can go in row, hard and fast,” he said. “So you get a gauge.”

Azzanni said the UT staff constantly monitors the players’ speeds and the distances they have run, enabling them to maximize the practices.

The players have enjoyed seeing the top speeds posted. So far, freshman Tyler Byrd has reached the fastest speed on the team, according to the tracking system."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#111
#111
Originally Posted by Catbone:
North had no business going to the nfl. Wonder if he was tired of cza

Also to my point...at least Catbone states the fact North wasn't an NFL talent. But the problem is many in here thought he was and more. I was told what round he'd go in and to book it 🤔

We haven't had NFL talent in that position since Justin Hunter. We do now with PW and possibly Byrd depending on where he settles in. But I believe our fans often overstate the true talent of one of our own players in relation to actual talent within College a Football as a whole.

Not an excuse for CZA just trying to bring people back to reality by stating the fact that our talent level at that position for quite some time has been truly average...but that seems to be changing. Especially in one of the most important categories that's been lacking....pure speed!
 
#112
#112
KBVol said:
Youth football players? Lol. There are a lot of very knowledgable fans, media members and even former Vol wide receivers who have questioned Azzani's tactics, coaching methods and ultimately, his effectiveness as our WR coach and passing game coordinator. So keep on with the "youth football" strawman, but it's beyond a legit topic for discussion on a fan forum message board.
Click to expand...

You don't even have to be knowledgeable

You only need a rudimentary understanding of football to see that that for several years, production by the WR unit has been poor comparable to any average you want to judge it by.

Hell, it's mathematical at this point since we have so much data
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#114
#114
VolFootballIsLife said:
Often the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But I guess that doesn't make for an entertaining stance on message boards so you won't see it too much.

1) The hate rhetoric for Coach Z is juvenile and needs to stop. That said the lack of production from his group will draw criticism and it's justified to begin questioning.

2). We are a run first / dink and dump passing team. It should be obvious to all that CBJ is conservative. You wont get a lot of WR production with that philosophy so CZA has his hands tied to some extent. That said, the playbook should open up some this year and it's fair to say CZA and the WR group will be under a microscope.

I'm not saying we have little leaguers on this board trying to be coaches but it does seem that people want PlayStation stats from a group in which the offense they are a part of isnt designed to produce those numbers. In that sense, some of the criticism is a bit perplexing,

If you want to analyze WR separation, crisp route running, maybe even sub patterns then ok but the plays haven't been called to allow these monstrous stats that some are so pissed off bc they aren't present. And seriously, I dont want to see a pass to run ratio as compared to BCS teams blah blah...we all know what a pass play called by CBJ looks like typically: quick hitter, try to shake a guy and fight for a couple yards, then will hand to Hurd and we'll March our way down field in small chunks.

Sorry for the long post. I just want to call a spade a spade and get that out there. Considering the overwhelming frustration with CZA on this thread, I'm sure it's not a popular sentiment in this forum.

But Happy Tuesday to all, any Holy Crap it's almost Football Time in Tennessee!!!!
Click to expand...

1. There has been no "hate rhetoric" for Z that I've read. If I missed it, please point it out. The lack of WR production the last 3 years from our WRs is why Z is catching some very legitimate criticism.

2. There are plenty of run first/run-centered/run heavy teams that also have productive passing games that allow their offenses to have good balance. That ain't our offense to date. The playbook will "open up" when our wide receivers develop to the point where they can routinely get off press coverage and get decent separation, neither of which Z's groups has been able to do for 3 years now.....and because of that, Z is already under a much-deserved microscope.

3. Nobody is asking for "monstrous stats"....when has anybody asked for or demanded that? How about just decent or somewhat average?

Since Dobbs came in vs Alabama in 2014, we've actually had 3 games where we threw for less than 100 yards, 8 where we threw for less than 150 yards, and 12 (of 19) games where we threw for less than 200 yards.

Since Butch got here, the best single season we've had from a WR is 54 catches for 618 yards. Last year nobody had even 40 catches and nobody even sniffed 500 yards receiving. It's not all on WRs, but they're contributing more than their fair share, especially given their collective talents and what the issues appear be....not really dropped passes, but rather fundamental things that are or are not being taught.

So again, who's asking for "monstrous stats"? Right now, I'd gladly take pedestrian stats.....if you told me right now our top WR this year would catch 60 balls for 800 yards I'd take it in a heartbeat and be giddy with it....and those stats would've barely even gotten an SEC WR in the top 10 last year...that's hardly monstrous.

4. The frustration with Azzani is beyond reasonable and warranted IMO, especially if he's gonna call the fanbase at best ignorant and at worst just stupid. His performance.....unlike Gillespie's, unlike Debord's, unlike Strip's, unlike Thig's, unlike Martinez's.... has just been very subpar for 3 years running now IMO. So please ask yourself why Z, and not all these other coaches, is getting threads started about them. There's a very good reason for it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 8 people
#115
#115
It's not like he wasn't given a pass for couple years because of talent level and QB play. Some people were excited because he was from Meyers coaching staff.
 
#116
#116
CoaxialOrange said:
It's not like he wasn't given a pass for couple years because of talent level and QB play. Some people were excited because he was from Meyers coaching staff.
Click to expand...

And we were told by Gators fans that he sucked which is why he was no longer with Meyers. If the WR don't put up better numbers this year, then he needs to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#119
#119
CoaxialOrange said:
It's not like he wasn't given a pass for couple years because of talent level and QB play. Some people were excited because he was from Meyers coaching staff.
Click to expand...

Exactly. There was some skepticism after the first 2 years with Z, but he was for the most part given a pass with year 3, last year, being the season most fans were asking for some results....especially when he was given the reins as the passing game coordinator, whatever that entailed. Yet year 3 was significantly worse than year 2 under Azzani with our WRs....we regressed in pretty much all areas of our passing game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#120
#120
davethevol said:
And we were told by Gators fans that he sucked which is why he was no longer with Meyers. If the WR don't put up better numbers this year, then he needs to go.
Click to expand...

Easy with the "hate rhetoric" Dave. That's just hate rhetoric you're spewing towards Azzani there, just pure hate I tell ya.
 
#121
#121
KBVol said:
1. There has been no "hate rhetoric" for Z that I've read. If I missed it, please point it out. The lack of WR production the last 3 years from our WRs is why Z is catching some very legitimate criticism.

2. There are plenty of run first/run-centered/run heavy teams that also have productive passing games that allow their offenses to have good balance. That ain't our offense to date. The playbook will "open up" when our wide receivers develop to the point where they can routinely get off press coverage and get decent separation, neither of which Z's groups has been able to do for 3 years now.....and because of that, Z is already under a much-deserved microscope.

3. Nobody is asking for "monstrous stats"....when has anybody asked for or demanded that? How about just decent or somewhat average?

Since Dobbs came in vs Alabama in 2014, we've actually had 3 games where we threw for less than 100 yards, 8 where we threw for less than 150 yards, and 12 (of 19) games where we threw for less than 200 yards.

Since Butch got here, the best single season we've had from a WR is 54 catches for 618 yards. Last year nobody had even 40 catches and nobody even sniffed 500 yards receiving. It's not all on WRs, but they're contributing more than their fair share, especially given their collective talents and what the issues appear be....not really dropped passes, but rather fundamental things that are or are not being taught.

So again, who's asking for "monstrous stats"? Right now, I'd gladly take pedestrian stats.....if you told me right now our top WR this year would catch 60 balls for 800 yards I'd take it in a heartbeat and be giddy with it....and those stats would've barely even gotten an SEC WR in the top 10 last year...that's hardly monstrous.

4. The frustration with Azzani is beyond reasonable and warranted IMO, especially if he's gonna call the fanbase at best ignorant and at worst just stupid. His performance.....unlike Gillespie's, unlike Debord's, unlike Strip's, unlike Thig's, unlike Martinez's.... has just been very subpar for 3 years running now IMO. So please ask yourself why Z, and not all these other coaches, is getting threads started about them. There's a very good reason for it.
Click to expand...

Dude, not sure why you're directing these points at me. You keep saying the criticism is justified warranted, beyond reasonable and valid....well so did I but also said the truth is somewhere in the middle. Not even really on opposite sides there. My quote " the lack of production from his group will draw criticism and it's justified to begin questioning". So what the hell?

Also, I know where you stand on expectations and don't believe you are one of those asking for unreasonable stats bit you can't act like people aren't being ridiculous and frustrated bc we don't put up Amari Cooper numbers in a Kiffin Offense (which is in this actual thread).

I not good with copy and paste from my phone but here are the examples you asked for in this thread alone in the past 24 hours alone - plus you know very well there are tons more on other threads

"I'm tired of his...
GTFO already". Page 2

"I can't stand this idiot". Page 5

"I'm so sick of Azzani" Page 6

"I just want 300 passing, 400 rushing, and 150 SP"
Page 5

Again only in the last few hours in this thread alone.

Not directing my comments to everyone and surely not you but you can't pretend many people, especially on this site, produce juvenile and degrading speech about members of "Our Family". And beyond argument, there are many wanting XBox passing numbers...that nonsense is everywhere. How can you say it's not.

I just asked that those people become more rational
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#123
#123
KBVol said:
Youth football players? Lol. There are a lot of very knowledgable fans, media members and even former Vol wide receivers who have questioned Azzani's tactics, coaching methods and ultimately, his effectiveness as our WR coach and passing game coordinator. So keep on with the "youth football" strawman, but it's beyond a legit topic for discussion on a fan forum message board.
Click to expand...

So you admit you know more about coaching college football than Butch and the staff? They're might be some "knowledgable" fans on here but that's why none of us are coaching football. It's easy for us fans to just talk about something that sounds easy to do than actually doing it. Not everyone can handle coaching 18-22 year old kids on the college level. I think I'll take Butch's perspective over your opinion whether you agree with his decisions or not. Right now, I think he's done a lot with this program and you just need to learn how to appreciate his work a little bit more.
 
#124
#124
VolFreakJosh said:
So you admit you know more about coaching college football than Butch and the staff? They're might be some "knowledgable" fans on here but that's why none of us are coaching football. It's easy for us fans to just talk about something that sounds easy to do than actually doing it. Not everyone can handle coaching 18-22 year old kids on the college level. I think I'll take Butch's perspective over your opinion whether you agree with his decisions or not. Right now, I think he's done a lot with this program and you just need to learn how to appreciate his work a little bit more.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying they know more about something or that they want to take over job duties. The point is when you're paid millions (some of that revenue coming from fans), you need to do your job and do it right. Earn your pay or get bad feedback from your supplier period. It's not hard to understand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#125
#125
VolFootballIsLife said:
Often the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But I guess that doesn't make for an entertaining stance on message boards so you won't see it too much.

1) The hate rhetoric for Coach Z is juvenile and needs to stop. That said the lack of production from his group will draw criticism and it's justified to begin questioning.

2). We are a run first / dink and dump passing team. It should be obvious to all that CBJ is conservative. You wont get a lot of WR production with that philosophy so CZA has his hands tied to some extent. That said, the playbook should open up some this year and it's fair to say CZA and the WR group will be under a microscope.

I'm not saying we have little leaguers on this board trying to be coaches but it does seem that people want PlayStation stats from a group in which the offense they are a part of isnt designed to produce those numbers. In that sense, some of the criticism is a bit perplexing,

If you want to analyze WR separation, crisp route running, maybe even sub patterns then ok but the plays haven't been called to allow these monstrous stats that some are so pissed off bc they aren't present. And seriously, I dont want to see a pass to run ratio as compared to BCS teams blah blah...we all know what a pass play called by CBJ looks like typically: quick hitter, try to shake a guy and fight for a couple yards, then will hand to Hurd and we'll March our way down field in small chunks.

Sorry for the long post. I just want to call a spade a spade and get that out there. Considering the overwhelming frustration with CZA on this thread, I'm sure it's not a popular sentiment in this forum.

But Happy Tuesday to all, any Holy Crap it's almost Football Time in Tennessee!!!!
Click to expand...

I'm not one that's claiming that CZA needs to be fired right now; though I am one saying he needs to be under a microscope. But you are not calling spades spades. You are making things up. CBJ ran the same offense at Cinci, and it was not what you described it to be.

QB Zach Collaros became only the second UC QB all-time to tally 6,000 yards passing and 50 passing touchdowns. He leaves UC as the school's all-time leader in completion percentage (.619) and was 485-of-783 for 6,278 yards and 51 touchdowns.

...

LeFevour had an NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision Record 148 career touchdowns (101 passing, 46 rushing and one receiving). His 101 career passing TDs, are the most in MAC history.

GoBEARCATS.COM Butch Jones Bio - University Of Cincinnati Official Athletic Site University Of Cincinnati
Click to expand...

Our offense is not designed to be a run-heavy offense. It is designed to be a balanced offense. It is not designed to be merely a din/dunk passing game. He spread the ball all over the field--including deep--at Cinci and UCM.

He just hasn't had the tools to do that here. It's been a combination of O-Line, Dobbs' accuracy, and WR problems. He hasn't been able to trust the passing game, so you've gotten the impression that the offense is a run-heavy offense.

The OL issues seem to be resolved. Hopefully Josh's accuracy is resolved. And hopefully the poor WR play gets resolved. If it doesn't, CZA needs to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top