HBO's "Game of Thrones"

#4,680
#4,680
Was just watching episode 5 from season 5 and get to the scene where Sam is reading the message to Maester Aemon about Danys struggles in Mereen. Aemon starts going on about Dany being under siege and all alone with no family to protect her or guide her. Her last relation thousands of miles away, useless and dying. Sam says..Don't say that Maester Aemon..Then Aemon says..A Targaryen alone in the world..is a terrible thing...Right then in the background Jon pops in the door and slowly comes into focus...Could they gave made it any clearer what is going on?
 
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#4,681
#4,681
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Was just watching episode 5 from season 5 and get to the scene where Sam is reading the message to Maester Aemon about Danys struggles in Mereen. Aemon starts going on about Dany being under siege and all alone with no family to protect her or guide her. Her last relation thousands of miles away, useless and dying. Sam says..Don't say that Maester Aemon..Then Aemon says..A Targaryen alone in the world..is a terrible thing...Right then in the background Jon pops in the door and slowly comes into focus...Could they gave made it any clearer what is going on?
Click to expand...

Good find. I'm thinking about going back and reading the books again. I know it won't help with the next season but I'd like to see if there are things I should've paid more attention to.
 
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#4,683
#4,683
So not only is next season going to be shorter than normal, apparently it's going to premier later than normal as well? Doesn't look like they will be able to make the normal April time frame due to a delay in production (weather related).
 
#4,684
#4,684
NochNoch said:
So not only is next season going to be shorter than normal, apparently it's going to premier later than normal as well? Doesn't look like they will be able to make the normal April time frame due to a delay in production (weather related).
Click to expand...

They're filming later so that winter in universe coincides with more gloomy, drab weather in real life. Smart, but sucks for viewers.
 
#4,685
#4,685
butchna said:
My wife wants to start watching. As long as I rewatch it with her...no problem whatsoever. :cool2:
Click to expand...

I've thought about starting over from season 1 again... need to get the wife on board
 
#4,686
#4,686
Below is a good analyses of Cersi. The person claims to be a psychologist, hell who knows but it's a good and accurate breakdown of her imo.
 
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#4,687
#4,687
I'm a clinical psychologist, but I'll try (and probably fail) to limit the psychobabble. Also, a disclaimer: diagnosing fictional characters with psychiatric disorders is kind of silly. Psychiatric disorders are complex and mysterious classifications of human minds, and the minds of fictional characters are not real. Therefore, what I'm doing here is just loosely applying these terms to a character who simply displays the behaviors and characteristics of a particular diagnostic label that we use for real people. Unless G.R.R.M. is someone who has a perfect understanding of how the human mind works, then his characters are of course not going to really fit into our categories. I'm also using the extremes of this particular diagnostic label in order to illustrate my point. In reality, people fall on a spectrum of all personality styles, and there's a lot more gray area. But we can still have fun with it, so here we go.
Cersei is a classic narcissist. As such, she lacks the ability to truly empathize with others. Despite this obvious reality, people seem to be falling into the trap of thinking that Cersei really does genuinely love her brother and her (late) children. While she certainly says that she does quite a bit, and while her behavior may seem to suggest that she does, it is highly unlikely that such a narcissistic character is capable of true love.
If anyone is interested in a more babble-heavy explanation then I could get into object relations theory in explaining this concept, but suffice it to say, Cersei doesn't view others as real, complete people. Instead, she views them as either "all good" or "all bad" (this is known as splitting, and it is a defense mechanism). Her tendency to split is reflective of her inability to view herself as a person who has both good traits and bad traits. Most of us are able to view ourselves in shades of gray: we're capable of good things and bad things, we have strengths and weaknesses, etc. Instead of embracing this reality, Cersei must either embrace the belief that she is a worthless, damaged, and hopeless person, or the belief that she is impeccable, gifted, and perfect. With narcissists, the latter strategy seems to prevail, at least on the surface. This is why people so often fall into the trap of thinking that narcissists really think they're the best. They don't, however, even if they're not even conscious of it. Deep down, they're certain that they fall into the former category, so if they don't embrace the latter (that they're perfect), then they will be "destroyed," in the sense of facing psychological collapse. This is a way of coping with and protecting against emotional pain, hence the term "defense mechanism."
You might think that narcissists are incapable of love, since they often seem to be quite incapable of having empathy for others. You may be right, in a certain sense (although remember, we're talking about extremes here, whereas real people fall throughout the spectrum). However, there is a sort of narcissistic love in which the narcissistic person loves others as an extension of him/herself. In this scenario, the narcissistic person experiences a fragmentation of the self in which the other becomes a part of the self. This is almost always seen with family members or lovers. Rather than loving this other person as a separate entity who has their own strengths and weaknesses, the narcissistic person splits them into the "perfect" category, and considers them to be an extension of him/herself. You see this in the way that Cersei thinks about Jamie and her children. They are her blood, and they share a part of her. As such, they must be perfect, like she is. In fact, Cersei isn't even capable of loving someone who isn't herself. Her one true love in life is her twin, who looks just like her. Loving one's twin is the ultimate form of self-love, and it is sort of a perfect embodiment of what it means to be narcissistic. As soon as Jamie departed in the first season, she was sleeping with her cousin who, again, was just another extension of herself. She can't even bare to not have sex with herself during Jamie's departure.
Although this sort of love may seem like "regular" love (in that she expresses warmness towards her children, wants them to be happy, and violently looks after their interests), it is a hollow love. Just as easily as narcissistic people merged these other people with themselves, they can split them away and cast them back into the "other" position. They will then split this person to the "bad" category, and disown them. Again, this is a defense. Rather than accepting the reality that the person is capable of having strengths and weaknesses (which would mean that they are imperfect as well), they simply stop believing that the other person is reflective of themselves. After that, they may not even experience any sense of loss or mourning.
I think this is what we saw with Tommen's death. One of the questions in the post-episode poll last week was whether Cersei would have blown everyone up if she knew that Tommen was there. Most people answered "no," but I think the answer is "yes." Again, for Cersei, it's not about Tommen; it's about herself, because in her mind, she is all that exists. People are either "her," or they're "not her." At that point, Tommen had become "not her." He had joined the Faith and forsaken his family. He showed weakness, gullibility, and stupidity, and he even abandoned her. From that point on, he was no longer a part of her. The scene when Cersei saw Tommen's body was very poignant (here it is). While we had previously seen Cersei go completely hysterical at the loss of Myrcella and Joffrey, she is cold and emotionless during this scene. This is because when the former two children died, they were still a part of her. When Tommen died, he was not.
What do people think? If you agree with this assessment, what implications will this have for her character development in the remainder of the show? Or for her relationship with Jamie?
 
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#4,688
#4,688
I'm a big fan of psychology; it was my undergrad major for a short while. I must say, this is fascinating.

She needs to psycho-analyze Ramsey Bolton next =D
 
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#4,689
#4,689
SWIL said:
I'm a big fan of psychology; it was my undergrad major for a short while. I must say, this is fascinating.

She needs to psycho-analyze Ramsey Bolton next =D
Click to expand...
Yup I would also love a breakdown of Little Finger and The Hound.
 
#4,691
#4,691
dduncan4163 said:
I'm a clinical psychologist, but I'll try (and probably fail) to limit the psychobabble. Also, a disclaimer: diagnosing fictional characters with psychiatric disorders is kind of silly. Psychiatric disorders are complex and mysterious classifications of human minds, and the minds of fictional characters are not real. Therefore, what I'm doing here is just loosely applying these terms to a character who simply displays the behaviors and characteristics of a particular diagnostic label that we use for real people. Unless G.R.R.M. is someone who has a perfect understanding of how the human mind works, then his characters are of course not going to really fit into our categories. I'm also using the extremes of this particular diagnostic label in order to illustrate my point. In reality, people fall on a spectrum of all personality styles, and there's a lot more gray area. But we can still have fun with it, so here we go.
Cersei is a classic narcissist. As such, she lacks the ability to truly empathize with others. Despite this obvious reality, people seem to be falling into the trap of thinking that Cersei really does genuinely love her brother and her (late) children. While she certainly says that she does quite a bit, and while her behavior may seem to suggest that she does, it is highly unlikely that such a narcissistic character is capable of true love.
If anyone is interested in a more babble-heavy explanation then I could get into object relations theory in explaining this concept, but suffice it to say, Cersei doesn't view others as real, complete people. Instead, she views them as either "all good" or "all bad" (this is known as splitting, and it is a defense mechanism). Her tendency to split is reflective of her inability to view herself as a person who has both good traits and bad traits. Most of us are able to view ourselves in shades of gray: we're capable of good things and bad things, we have strengths and weaknesses, etc. Instead of embracing this reality, Cersei must either embrace the belief that she is a worthless, damaged, and hopeless person, or the belief that she is impeccable, gifted, and perfect. With narcissists, the latter strategy seems to prevail, at least on the surface. This is why people so often fall into the trap of thinking that narcissists really think they're the best. They don't, however, even if they're not even conscious of it. Deep down, they're certain that they fall into the former category, so if they don't embrace the latter (that they're perfect), then they will be "destroyed," in the sense of facing psychological collapse. This is a way of coping with and protecting against emotional pain, hence the term "defense mechanism."
You might think that narcissists are incapable of love, since they often seem to be quite incapable of having empathy for others. You may be right, in a certain sense (although remember, we're talking about extremes here, whereas real people fall throughout the spectrum). However, there is a sort of narcissistic love in which the narcissistic person loves others as an extension of him/herself. In this scenario, the narcissistic person experiences a fragmentation of the self in which the other becomes a part of the self. This is almost always seen with family members or lovers. Rather than loving this other person as a separate entity who has their own strengths and weaknesses, the narcissistic person splits them into the "perfect" category, and considers them to be an extension of him/herself. You see this in the way that Cersei thinks about Jamie and her children. They are her blood, and they share a part of her. As such, they must be perfect, like she is. In fact, Cersei isn't even capable of loving someone who isn't herself. Her one true love in life is her twin, who looks just like her. Loving one's twin is the ultimate form of self-love, and it is sort of a perfect embodiment of what it means to be narcissistic. As soon as Jamie departed in the first season, she was sleeping with her cousin who, again, was just another extension of herself. She can't even bare to not have sex with herself during Jamie's departure.
Although this sort of love may seem like "regular" love (in that she expresses warmness towards her children, wants them to be happy, and violently looks after their interests), it is a hollow love. Just as easily as narcissistic people merged these other people with themselves, they can split them away and cast them back into the "other" position. They will then split this person to the "bad" category, and disown them. Again, this is a defense. Rather than accepting the reality that the person is capable of having strengths and weaknesses (which would mean that they are imperfect as well), they simply stop believing that the other person is reflective of themselves. After that, they may not even experience any sense of loss or mourning.
I think this is what we saw with Tommen's death. One of the questions in the post-episode poll last week was whether Cersei would have blown everyone up if she knew that Tommen was there. Most people answered "no," but I think the answer is "yes." Again, for Cersei, it's not about Tommen; it's about herself, because in her mind, she is all that exists. People are either "her," or they're "not her." At that point, Tommen had become "not her." He had joined the Faith and forsaken his family. He showed weakness, gullibility, and stupidity, and he even abandoned her. From that point on, he was no longer a part of her. The scene when Cersei saw Tommen's body was very poignant (here it is). While we had previously seen Cersei go completely hysterical at the loss of Myrcella and Joffrey, she is cold and emotionless during this scene. This is because when the former two children died, they were still a part of her. When Tommen died, he was not.
What do people think? If you agree with this assessment, what implications will this have for her character development in the remainder of the show? Or for her relationship with Jamie?
Click to expand...

Yeah..I kinda already said that the other day. Only no where near as intelligently. :) Certs doesn't really, and never has loved anyone but herself.
 
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#4,695
#4,695
One Overlooked Detail May Prove Another Big Jon Snow Theory

On “Game of Thrones,” we hear about the prophecy of Azor Ahai (sometimes called The Prince That Was Promised). Thousands of years ago, there was supposedly this hero who saved everyone from the White Walkers. Yay. Good stuff, right? Azor Ahai is also said to have used a magic sword called Lightbringer, which he had to temper with the blood of his beloved wife, Nissa Nissa. Aw. Sad face 😞.
It’s said that his hero will be reborn “when the red star bleeds.” Melisandre is way too thirsty for it. (R.I.P., Stannis.) But the Season 6 finale may have finally confirmed her wish.
Azor Ahai is our boy Jon Snow.
When Ned Stark enters the Tower of Joy to find his sister Lyanna (Jon’s mommy) apparently dying after childbirth, he leaves a sword at the foot of the bed. Many have pointed out that this is Ser Arthur Dayne’s sword. (Dayne was that dude who was guarding the tower.)

5786615e1a00002700dd124c.png
HBO
Dawn! Dayne’s sword in the books is called Dawn, and it’s supposedly forged from the heart of a fallen star. If the sword in the show is Dawn, which appears to be the case, this could fulfill the part about Azor Ahai being born when “the red star bleeds.” (The camera lingers on the sword just a bit too long for this not to be important.)
But Azor Ahai would still need his weapon, Lightbringer, right? And Jon Snow’s true love, Ygritte, was killed with an arrow, not a sword. So how could he possibly sacrifice her to temper the weapon?
Well, thanks to the new evidence, it seems that an overlooked detail may put this theory over the top:
The Night’s Watch is Jon Snow’s Lightbringer.


If you don’t remember the oath of the Night’s Watch, it goes like this:
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night’s Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

​
Hmm ... that’s pretty interesting phrasing.
“I am the sword in the darkness.”
“I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.”
​
We see what you did there, George R.R. Martin. The Night’s Watch is Jon Snow’s weapon against the darkness.
This isn’t a new theory. It’s been discussed on forums before, but now that we’ve seen the Tower of Joy scene, there’s more support than ever.
Also, remember: Arrows don’t kill people. People kill people.
Jon picked the Watch over his love, Ygritte. When Ygritte was killed by one of Snow’s Night’s Watch brothers (Olly on the show), the Watch was tempered with her blood.
A commenter on the A Song of Ice and Fire forums laid it out back in 2013:
In the “Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night’s Watch” interpretation of Jon being [Azor Ahai] reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his Nissa Nissa, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it.
​
(No, Ygrittes regrets, dude.)
Sure, there’s evidence that Dany is actually Azor Ahai. She fits a lot of the prophecy, too. Plus, there’s a part about Azor Ahai waking dragons from stone. Dany’s got those.
However, unless Jon and Dany are both Azor Ahai together, there’s just too much evidence in favor of the King in the North to ignore. For example, in the books Melisandre prays to see Azor Ahai and sees “only snow.” And even death itself is said to bend the knee to Azor Ahai. Getting resurrected kind of fulfills that, too.
We don’t care if he’s a bastard. Jon Snow is our Azor Ahai from this day until his last day.
 
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#4,697
#4,697
dduncan4163 said:
One Overlooked Detail May Prove Another Big Jon Snow Theory

On “Game of Thrones,” we hear about the prophecy of Azor Ahai (sometimes called The Prince That Was Promised). Thousands of years ago, there was supposedly this hero who saved everyone from the White Walkers. Yay. Good stuff, right? Azor Ahai is also said to have used a magic sword called Lightbringer, which he had to temper with the blood of his beloved wife, Nissa Nissa. Aw. Sad face 😞.
It’s said that his hero will be reborn “when the red star bleeds.” Melisandre is way too thirsty for it. (R.I.P., Stannis.) But the Season 6 finale may have finally confirmed her wish.
Azor Ahai is our boy Jon Snow.
When Ned Stark enters the Tower of Joy to find his sister Lyanna (Jon’s mommy) apparently dying after childbirth, he leaves a sword at the foot of the bed. Many have pointed out that this is Ser Arthur Dayne’s sword. (Dayne was that dude who was guarding the tower.)

5786615e1a00002700dd124c.png
HBO
Dawn! Dayne’s sword in the books is called Dawn, and it’s supposedly forged from the heart of a fallen star. If the sword in the show is Dawn, which appears to be the case, this could fulfill the part about Azor Ahai being born when “the red star bleeds.” (The camera lingers on the sword just a bit too long for this not to be important.)
But Azor Ahai would still need his weapon, Lightbringer, right? And Jon Snow’s true love, Ygritte, was killed with an arrow, not a sword. So how could he possibly sacrifice her to temper the weapon?
Well, thanks to the new evidence, it seems that an overlooked detail may put this theory over the top:
The Night’s Watch is Jon Snow’s Lightbringer.


If you don’t remember the oath of the Night’s Watch, it goes like this:
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night’s Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

​
Hmm ... that’s pretty interesting phrasing.
“I am the sword in the darkness.”
“I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.”
​
We see what you did there, George R.R. Martin. The Night’s Watch is Jon Snow’s weapon against the darkness.
This isn’t a new theory. It’s been discussed on forums before, but now that we’ve seen the Tower of Joy scene, there’s more support than ever.
Also, remember: Arrows don’t kill people. People kill people.
Jon picked the Watch over his love, Ygritte. When Ygritte was killed by one of Snow’s Night’s Watch brothers (Olly on the show), the Watch was tempered with her blood.
A commenter on the A Song of Ice and Fire forums laid it out back in 2013:
In the “Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night’s Watch” interpretation of Jon being [Azor Ahai] reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his Nissa Nissa, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it.
​
(No, Ygrittes regrets, dude.)
Sure, there’s evidence that Dany is actually Azor Ahai. She fits a lot of the prophecy, too. Plus, there’s a part about Azor Ahai waking dragons from stone. Dany’s got those.
However, unless Jon and Dany are both Azor Ahai together, there’s just too much evidence in favor of the King in the North to ignore. For example, in the books Melisandre prays to see Azor Ahai and sees “only snow.” And even death itself is said to bend the knee to Azor Ahai. Getting resurrected kind of fulfills that, too.
We don’t care if he’s a bastard. Jon Snow is our Azor Ahai from this day until his last day.
Click to expand...

she also sacrificed her love to bring the dragons back.
 
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#4,699
#4,699
dduncan4163 said:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxG03oBY5zU[/youtube]
Good Stuff
Click to expand...

Watched this last week..compelling theory, but I don't believe it ends that way. I think that the coming war will be so devastating that by the end the feudal system will be broken. I think in essence no one wins the Game of Thrones. The survivors will forge a different society.
 
#4,700
#4,700
the wife and I are binge watching this. We're a couple of episodes into season 3 right now. I'm trying to following the seasons in this thread but its getting a bit difficult now.

A few observations (that have probably been said somewhere in the past 156 pages)

* if you want a part time job, be an actor on GOT. You'll be killed off eventually.

* back in the 80s this show would have been a part of Skinomax (aka Cineamax). I wonder if the writers sit around and say "just how close can we get to being porn without being porn?". Gotta have the finger on the stop button when kids are near.

* it took me a bit but the imp is just a small version of House. Without the vicodin of course
 
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