Butch Jones in the 4th quarter

#76
#76
Titans4Vols said:
There are certainly points to be made about his conservatism with leads, but I think just as much the finger needs to be pointed at the players. Back during our "glory years" under Fulmer(which I define as 95-01), we were a very conservative offense overall, but we still went 73-14 because in the 4th quarter when we had the lead and wanted to run the ball, we ran the ball down the throat of whoever the hell we wanted to.

I remember back in 01 specifically we had some astronomical time of possession in the 4th quarter. Travis Stephens and the offensive line punched every defense they faced in the mouth. A lot of people look back fondly on that year and how great of a team we were, but seem to forget how many of those games were nail biters going in to the 4th quarter, and our "conservative" gameplan of running the ball down the throat of every defense we played gave us the victory.

We didn't let opposing offenses touch the ball in the 4th quarter. That ball pretty much stayed in the hands of Travis Stephens.

That kind of offense works. It still works to this day. Does Butch need to open things up a bit more? Sure, but more importantly our offensive line has to learn how to take over the game in the 4th quarter. They couldn't do that this past season. We've got the QB to manage the game who can make plays when we need them(ala Martin and Clausen). We've got the running backs who can take it over(ala Lewis, Henry, Stephens). We need the o-line now.
Click to expand...

That's solid. If it takes a first down or two to ice the game, it hurt us to run 3 times and punt. Going too conservative cost us possibly 4 games last year. It also put two other games in jeopardy. Poor execution didn't help either, that's on CBJ for the way he runs practice. We need some more Captains one for the line and another for receivers.

Go Vols!
 
#77
#77
Iam4utalways said:
That's solid. If it takes a first down or two to ice the game, it hurt us to run 3 times and punt. Going too conservative cost us possibly 4 games last year. It also put two other games in jeopardy. Poor execution didn't help either, that's on CBJ for the way he runs practice. We need some more Captains one for the line and another for receivers.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...

Heh, smashing this bit of 2015 fiction is like Sisyphus pushing the rock uphill, over and over again.

"Going conservative" did not cost us four games in 2015. It cost us one.

We lost to Arkansas because we were god-awful. We simply stunk up the joint. It was that simple. On the flip side, we barely lost to Bama because were were really playing a great game. Nothing for anyone, players or coaches, to be embarrassed about that day.

Neither of those games had a single thing to do with playing conservative at any point in the game.

We lost to Oklahoma because of a dozen or so key mistakes. Only a couple of those had anything to do with coaching. More than anything else, we were young and made young-team mistakes...and we ran out of gas in the 4th quarter on defense, failing to wrap up tackle after tackle after tackle and making Baker Mayfield look like Houdini.

Finally, Florida. Yes. This is THE game where your argument has merit. We lost the Florida game because Butch and his coordinators choked at key times. That game, just that one, was more heavily on the coaching decisions than the players' execution.

Now you're gonna come back and mention a field goal in the Oklahoma game. You're going to use that play call as "proof" that it was all conservative coaching. But that's just wrong. Analyze the game from start to finish--especially the 4th quarter. Look at it play by play. Figure out what DeBord actually called on each play, not what ended up happening. You'll see.

Over-simplifying 2015 is for folks who either don't care to know the real story, or aren't bright enough to handle the complexity of how it really played out. Let's not fall into either of those traps.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#79
#79
VFL-82-JP said:
Heh, smashing this bit of 2015 fiction is like Sisyphus pushing the rock uphill, over and over again.

"Going conservative" did not cost us four games in 2015. It cost us one.

We lost to Arkansas because we were god-awful. We simply stunk up the joint. It was that simple. On the flip side, we barely lost to Bama because were were really playing a great game. Nothing for anyone, players or coaches, to be embarrassed about that day.

Neither of those games had a single thing to do with playing conservative at any point in the game.

We lost to Oklahoma because of a dozen or so key mistakes. Only a couple of those had anything to do with coaching. More than anything else, we were young and made young-team mistakes...and we ran out of gas in the 4th quarter on defense, failing to wrap up tackle after tackle after tackle and making Baker Mayfield look like Houdini.

Finally, Florida. Yes. This is THE game where your argument has merit. We lost the Florida game because Butch and his coordinators choked at key times. That game, just that one, was more heavily on the coaching decisions than the players' execution.

Now you're gonna come back and mention a field goal in the Oklahoma game. You're going to use that play call as "proof" that it was all conservative coaching. But that's just wrong. Analyze the game from start to finish--especially the 4th quarter. Look at it play by play. Figure out what DeBord actually called on each play, not what ended up happening. You'll see.

Over-simplifying 2015 is for folks who either don't care to know the real story, or aren't bright enough to handle the complexity of how it really played out. Let's not fall into either of those traps.
Click to expand...

You totally supported my comment. And as I read thru it and particularly towards the end it seemed you were possibly presenting an opposing opinion.

Thanks?
 
#80
#80
Iam4utalways said:
You totally supported my comment. And as I read thru it and particularly towards the end it seemed you were possibly presenting an opposing opinion.

Thanks?
Click to expand...

You mean the part where you said that "going conservative" cost us maybe 4 games last year, and I said no, it only cost us one? That place where I totally supported you, Iam? :)

Here's a possible logical fallacy that might explain the confusion. Just because you may totally agree with what I said in my post, that does not mean that I was also agreeing with what you said in your post before it. Not saying that's the source of the confusion, but it could be.
 
Last edited:
#81
#81
VFL-82-JP said:
You mean the part where you said that "going conservative" cost us maybe 4 games last year, and I said no, it only cost us one? That place where I totally supported you, Iam? :)
Click to expand...

You left out the "too" and "possibly", so yes by changing what I said to be the opposite to what you are speaking on is by all measure, totally agreeing with what I said.

So, thanks?
 
#83
#83
It's amazing that so many of you make excuses for poor coaching that EVERYONE in America saw and pointed out in those choke games..



No reason to complain about those games now, just like there is no reason to keep making excuses for the poor coaching.

Let it go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#86
#86
Zetter said:
Wrong. We lost FL and OK on game management. Won SC and GA on luck or talent.
Click to expand...

Wrong. We lost those games on game management AND failed player execution. We won SC and UGA because we were the bettef team that made the plays when it counted. Luck had nothing to do with it.

You cannot blame Butch for all the bad and yet not praise him for all the good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#89
#89
GAVol said:
Florida wasn't any good last year.
Click to expand...

They were top 10 in the country at one time and beat an Ole Miss team by 28 points that had just beaten Alabama in Tuscaloosa and was ranked #3 in the country.

They were pretty good last year.
 
Last edited:
#90
#90
utvols74 said:
...and that is what concerns me. We seem to have a mental-block when it comes to UF. In the back of our players' minds, I have to believe a small voice is saying..."Somehow, someway, at sometime, we'll do something stupid and they'll score and win". And that is exactly what happens.

The article on the front page of the KNS after UT beat UF in 1998 (on a missed FG in OT by UF), was "11 Angry Men". Unless UT is pi$$ed off in the most unusual way, we will play tepidly and "not to lose".
Click to expand...

Did Ole Miss have a mental block too when they got beat by 28 points in the Swamp 2 weeks after beating Alabama?

I think the 3 straight top 5 recruiting classes Florida had on campus last year had a little something to do with beating us.

I don't know why you simply can't give credit to the opponent? Florida was really good last year until the last few weeks.

They blew out Ole Miss by 28 points when they were the #3 team in the country.

They played LSU to a one possesion loss in Baton Rouge without Will Grier.

They blew out Georgia in Jacksonville by 24 points.

On paper they were more talented than us last year. They were at home. They had 7 players from their team drafted in 2016. We had none. Their senior and junior classes were both top 5. Our senior and junior classes were outside the top 15. And so on.

This wasn't a light weight we lost to. They were significantly more talented than us in their senior and junior classes.
 
Last edited:
#91
#91
BigOrangeTrain said:
Wrong. We lost those games on game management AND failed player execution. We won SC and UGA because we were the bettef team that made the plays when it counted. Luck had nothing to do with it.

You cannot blame Butch for all the bad and yet not praise him for all the good.
Click to expand...

Agree totally about the games. Your last sentence seems to be a lot people's MO.
 
#93
#93
VFL-82-JP said:
Quality was your word, brother. I never used it.

Just saying, you were (speculatively) wrong when you said most SEC teams would've beaten NU last January. Good chance that most wouldn't have. But we did.
Click to expand...

It was Bearcat's actually. I just took exception
 
#94
#94
ajvol01 said:
It was Bearcat's actually. I just took exception
Click to expand...

No, AJ, you just mis-attributed the phrase to me, and called me to task for a characterization I never made. In technical terms, that's called being wrong.

Maybe you were having trouble keeping the people in the conversation straight...so let me help. I'm definitely not Bearcat. And he's definitely not me. :)


EDIT: Okay, looking back at what I wrote, that sounds snarky and argumentative. Didn't mean to be either. Just meant to establish for the record what I did and didn't say in this ongoing conversation. Cheers. :)
 
Last edited:
#95
#95
tennfanatic said:
First off I really do love Butch Jones but why is he so conservative in the 4th quarter? His philosophy is to run up the middle every play and then play with a lead and I honestly didn't see him really learn his lesson either last year. I mean we were lucky as hell against Georgia that our punter bailed us out with that coffin kick after Butch again decided to run the ball every single play and then punt. I guess I just envision us being up 10 in the fourth against Florida and Butch doing the same old things.

So do you think he changes his philosophy and pulls a Steve Spurrier this year or goes Johnny Majors and sits on big leads again this year?
Click to expand...

I think Butch fixed a lot of his anxiety to play loose in the fourth quarter by the hiring of Shoop.

There's only so many chances you can take if you don't have a solid trust in your defense to make stops and give you the ball back.
 
#96
#96
Will Butch's plan of scoring more points the first 3 quarters, over come his 4th quarter woes?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#97
#97
Lack of knowledge of the average "fan" is just astounding.

Lord please Hurry September.
 
#98
#98
ReaderVol said:
Lack of knowledge of the average "fan" is just astounding.

Lord please Hurry September.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is you guys that rip on fans for lack of knowledge know just as little. You just like to act holier than thou. Just because you agree with what the coach did, doesn't make him or you correct. Dooley had plenty of people defending his stupidity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#99
#99
photovol said:
Will Butch's plan of scoring more points the first 3 quarters, over come his 4th quarter woes?
Click to expand...

I thought we looked great in the fourth quarter of the nine games we won last year. I'm unsure where the phrase "woes" comes from.
 
#100
#100
Wylo said:
The funny thing is you guys that rip on fans for lack of knowledge know just as little. You just like to act holier than thou. Just because you agree with what the coach did, doesn't make him or you correct. Dooley had plenty of people defending his stupidity.
Click to expand...

No Wylo. Just no
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top