Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

[bignewt]

I wasn't specifically talking about you when it came to the Crusades. Others have brought it up. I've read quite a bit but I also have the common sense to come to my own conclusions by what's going on around the world today. There is nothing you can produce that can rationalize what is going on today in the Muslim religion. It's an insult to Christians to be compared to that. Like I've said, all Muslims are not bad people but there are millions that are and your attempt to rationalize or justify it stands on it's own IMO.

Alright I didn't realize the Crusades were brought up elsewhere. I was speaking more to the radicalization of faith throughout history. More to the slaughtering the Protestants and Catholics perpetuated for hundreds of years in Europe.
I don't understand how your argument that you cannot compare history to the modern day and yet we can live pur lives based on a book written thousands of years ago. As long as there is religion there will be people that are willing to kill over it.
You also stated we really didn't meddle in Middle East affairs prior to the Irag war, you could not be more wrong. We created that entire situation to win the Cold War and to feed our oil needs.
Yes ISIS is pure evil and radical Islam is completely wrong and should be wiped from the face of the planet but we provided the ammunition by giving them an enemy to rally around and that can change if we get the hell out of there pronto and let them go back to destroying themselves. We have our own oil now we do not need theirs. That will go a long way in curtailing the hate.

 

[Skullbone]

Alright I didn't realize the Crusades were brought up elsewhere. I was speaking more to the radicalization of faith throughout history. More to the slaughtering the Protestants and Catholics perpetuated for hundreds of years in Europe.
I don't understand how your argument that you cannot compare history to the modern day and yet we can live pur lives based on a book written thousands of years ago. As long as there is religion there will be people that are willing to kill over it.
You also stated we really didn't meddle in Middle East affairs prior to the Irag war, you could not be more wrong. We created that entire situation to win the Cold War and to feed our oil needs.
Yes ISIS is pure evil and radical Islam is completely wrong and should be wiped from the face of the planet but we provided the ammunition by giving them an enemy to rally around and that can change if we get the hell out of there pronto and let them go back to destroying themselves. We have our own oil now we do not need theirs. That will go a long way in curtailing the hate.

Listen to me people: We are not to blame for Islamic Terrorism and it's not going away even if we dissolve the United States. There's only one cure for the Temple of Doomers and it's to give them what they truly desire. Death.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Alright I didn't realize the Crusades were brought up elsewhere. I was speaking more to the radicalization of faith throughout history. More to the slaughtering the Protestants and Catholics perpetuated for hundreds of years in Europe.
I don't understand how your argument that you cannot compare history to the modern day and yet we can live pur lives based on a book written thousands of years ago. As long as there is religion there will be people that are willing to kill over it.
You also stated we really didn't meddle in Middle East affairs prior to the Irag war, you could not be more wrong. We created that entire situation to win the Cold War and to feed our oil needs.
Yes ISIS is pure evil and radical Islam is completely wrong and should be wiped from the face of the planet but we provided the ammunition by giving them an enemy to rally around and that can change if we get the hell out of there pronto and let them go back to destroying themselves. We have our own oil now we do not need theirs. That will go a long way in curtailing the hate.

I don't have a problem looking at the past. What I have problem is are the people that justify what ISIS and radical Islam is doing by what the US or the west has done. Also the people that try and claim that it is some kind of justifiable retribution because of what Christians do or have done. The sympathy show toward Islam and the demonization of Christianity really astonishes me. Do I think all Muslims are bad? No, absolutely not. Do I blame the Muslim religion as a whole? Absolutely!

If you take a similar hypothetical situation within the Christian religion, Christians would be the first to stand up against it and stamp it out. Meanwhile, Muslims still allow high ranking clerics to preach hate and inspire other Muslims to carry on this Jihad against anyone that doesn't convert.

And to repeat, Muslims can be categorized in the following ways:

Hard Core radical fighter/terrorist
Outward Supporter of hardcore terrorist fighters
Terrorist sympathizer
Don't give a damn about it, turn a blind eye
Staunchly against radical Islam and terrorism

Unfortunately, the last column makes up the least number of Muslims. As I said earlier, we as a country can't fix their warped ideology. The Muslim religion will never change by external force, it will have to change internally and I don't see it happening in the next 50 years.

And, as far as meddling in their business. sure, we've propped up governments and protected our interest in foreign oil. But as far military intervention we've done little prior to 911. And actually we help Osama Bin-Laden in his quest to stop Soviet aggression. I think you know how that turned out for us.

 

[zhangliao04]

You know that random ring you get in one of your ears every now and then? Just happened to me.

 

[jave36]

As much as I dislike Ali for his arrogance and the general way he treated the people around him (and I don't hold the racism against him, I think that was an inevitable response to a racist culture), his limericks were pretty funny. The one about launching Frazier out of the ring was especially clever.

 

[bignewt]

I don't have a problem looking at the past. What I have problem is are the people that justify what ISIS and radical Islam is doing by what the US or the west has done. Also the people that try and claim that it is some kind of justifiable retribution because of what Christians do or have done. The sympathy show toward Islam and the demonization of Christianity really astonishes me. Do I think all Muslims are bad? No, absolutely not. Do I blame the Muslim religion as a whole? Absolutely!

If you take a similar hypothetical situation within the Christian religion, Christians would be the first to stand up against it and stamp it out. Meanwhile, Muslims still allow high ranking clerics to preach hate and inspire other Muslims to carry on this Jihad against anyone that doesn't convert.

And to repeat, Muslims can be categorized in the following ways:

Hard Core radical fighter/terrorist
Outward Supporter of hardcore terrorist fighters
Terrorist sympathizer
Don't give a damn about it, turn a blind eye
Staunchly against radical Islam and terrorism

Unfortunately, the last column makes up the least number of Muslims. As I said earlier, we as a country can't fix their warped ideology. The Muslim religion will never change by external force, it will have to change internally and I don't see it happening in the next 50 years.

And, as far as meddling in their business. sure, we've propped up governments and protected our interest in foreign oil. But as far military intervention we've done little prior to 911. And actually we help Osama Bin-Laden in his quest to stop Soviet aggression. I think you know how that turned out for us.

My point in bold.

If we get out and stay out they will turn on themselves, much like the Iraq/Iran war or what India and Pakistan did to each other. I am in NO way being an apologist I am a realist. Radicalism is the worst but it is impossible to stamp it out entirely unless you got rid of religion. So you remove yourself from it and cease to be a target.

Or you can do what we do now and perpetuate it by fighting it in a covert half ass way that just fuels the flames.

That's it from me!

 

[InVOLuntary]

My point in bold.

If we get out and stay out they will turn on themselves, much like the Iraq/Iran war or what India and Pakistan did to each other. I am in NO way being an apologist I am a realist. Radicalism is the worst but it is impossible to stamp it out entirely unless you got rid of religion. So you remove yourself from it and cease to be a target.

Or you can do what we do now and perpetuate it by fighting it in a covert half ass way that just fuels the flames.

That's it from me!

I can agree somewhat but what's your answer when countries start harboring as in the lead up to 9/11? The training ground and base of operation for groups like ISIS, AL Quida, and the Talaban. Do you really think they'll just lay down their arms and leave us alone both abroad and our home turf?

 

[bignewt]

Dang it just when I think Im out....

If we cease to be a target there won't be attacks, at least on our soil. It won't happen overnight but I believe it will happen. Pakistan is the largest hiding spot for terrorists and they are our ally! You cannot win a war this way, its a microcosm of Vietnam. Problem now is that this enemy is better equipped and funded. I say stop getting our young men and women killed for crap policies derived from greed and putting a finger in a cracked damn. Get out let the damn fall and take care of ourselves. Monroe knew what he was talking about.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I'll just have to respectfully disagree. They were hitting us at home and abroad before we did much in the way of military operations in the Middle east. We didn't do squat when the Iranian revolution took place and they managed to take over our embassy and take civilian hostages.

The only major military operations were expelling Sadam from Kwait. I guess we could have let him have Kwait but not sure that would have turned out much better.

 

[delfonic]

That has to be the funniest thing I've ever read on this site and that's saying a lot. Thanks for pointing out those similarities. Man, I didn't realize that both believed all those things. You truly are quite the expert on religion. Yea, putting it like that I could hardly tell the difference in the two.

Oh yea and not so long ago is several hundred years. Talk about weak arguments. Like I said when you got something relative to the conversation come on back. Until. I'll just let your post stand on it's own. Just like the one above.

You are not a very rational person when it comes to this particular subject matter. Here are examples of "recent" terrorist groups who would call themselves Christian.

KKK in the US
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland
Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda
Anti-balaka
Bosnian-Serbian forces responsible for the Srebrenica massacre

You can now denounce these organizations as not being representative of Christianity just like most Muslims will denounce Islamic terrorist groups.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You are not a very rational person when it comes to this particular subject matter. Here are examples of "recent" terrorist groups who would call themselves Christian.

KKK in the US
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland
Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda
Anti-balaka
Bosnian-Serbian forces responsible for the Srebrenica massacre

You can now denounce these organizations as not being representative of Christianity just like most Muslims will denounce Islamic terrorist groups.

Most Muslims don't denounce terrorist groups. The only significant group you mentioned was the Bosnian-Serbian where we as a country defended the Muslims. As to your other examples, you seriously think they compare to Isis, the Talaban, or AL Quida? Again, I'll let that stand on its own.

 

[jave36]

You are not a very rational person when it comes to this particular subject matter. Here are examples of "recent" terrorist groups who would call themselves Christian.

KKK in the US
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland
Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda
Anti-balaka
Bosnian-Serbian forces responsible for the Srebrenica massacre

You can now denounce these organizations as not being representative of Christianity just like most Muslims will denounce Islamic terrorist groups.

I think his point is that 99.99% of Christians denounce those groups, while a far less % of Muslims denounce terroristic groups.

 

[delfonic]

Most Muslims don't denounce terrorist groups. The only significant group you mentioned was the Bosnian-Serbian where we as a country defended the Muslims. As to your other examples, you seriously think they compare to Isis, the Talaban, or AL Quida? Again, I'll let that stand on its own.

I will not denigrate loss of life and rape by calling it insignificant.

Also, in lieu of vague language, here's a link to an actual study regarding attitudes towards ISIS in areas with high Muslim populations:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/ft_15-11-17_isis_views/

 

[InVOLuntary]

I will not denigrate loss of life and rape by calling it insignificant.

Also, in lieu of vague language, here's a link to an actual study regarding attitudes towards ISIS in areas with high Muslim populations:

» Views of ISIS Overwhelmingly Negative

Lol, I never said it was insignificant. My point was scale. Again, your post stand on their own. They really don't need my criticism. As to your study, you and I both know studies can be manipulated to produce a certain outcome. I prefer to trust what my eyes see.

 

[delfonic]

Lol, I never said it was insignificant. My point was scale. Again, your post stand on their own. They really don't need my criticism. As to your study, you and I both know studies can be manipulated to produce a certain outcome. I prefer to trust what my eyes see.

Your point may have been scale but the word used was "significant." You offered no criticism and only repeatedly cited your own viewpoints as fact. As far as prefering to trust only what your eyes can see... How do you reconcile that with faith in a higher power?

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

Iraq/Afghanistan invasion of 2003 was a complete mistake, inevitably creating what we are dealing with now

 

[InVOLuntary]

Your point may have been scale but the word used was "significant." You offered no criticism and only repeatedly cited your own viewpoints as fact. As far as prefering to trust only what your eyes can see... How do you reconcile that with faith in a higher power?

When I said significant I was talking about size of the military not loss of life. I also, made the point that our country went in and defended the Muslims and despite seeing Bill Clinton in a less than favorable light fully supported what he did.

The rest of your post made entirely zero sense. Reconcile what? I didn't and don't approve of any killing done in the name of Jesus Christ. It goes against everything Jesus stood for. Your hate for Christians really astonishes me.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Iraq/Afghanistan invasion of 2003 was a complete mistake, inevitably creating what we are dealing with now

Iraq I agree with, Afghanistan not so much.

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

Iraq I agree with, Afghanistan not so much.

How so?

 

[delfonic]

When I said significant I was talking about size of the military not loss of life. I also, made the point that our country went in and defended the Muslims and despite seeing Bill Clinton in a less than favorable light fully supported what he did.

The rest of your post made entirely zero sense. Reconcile what? I didn't and don't approve of any killing done in the name of Jesus Christ. It goes against everything Jesus stood for. Your hate for Christians really astonishes me.

Your ability to jump to conclusions astonishes me. I hate no one. I am a Christian. I just don't have blinders on to the point that I feel slapping a Christian label on something automatically makes it superior.

You made a statement that you prefer to trust what your eyes can see. That, for me, is a viewpoint that would be contrary to faith in a higher power. I was asking how you reconcile that. When do you act of faith instead of proof that you've observed? It was an honest question.

I think you are WAY too sensitive When it comes to this particular subject matter.

 

[InVOLuntary]

WOW! Talk about me jumping to conclusions. You either are trolling or are seriously messed up. EIther way I'm bowing out and I'll let you do your own damage.

You absolutely make no sense. That's so funny you call your self a Christian when you constantly bash Christians while making excuses for the atrocities that a huge portion of Muslims believe is not only OK but God's will. When I say I believe what my eyes tell me has nothing, zero to do with my faith. When I say I chose to believe what my eyes see, I say that I believe my eyes over what your biased publication/study says along with what the liberal media or what our Muslim president says about it. You keep on blaming Christians for everything and apologizing for the Muslim atrocities.

 

[Theshag]

How so?

Sorry to butt in.

At least with Afghanistan you could legitimately say "the Taliban attacked us and we are going to show the world that doesn't happen without consequences."

To say the same about Iraq required either willful ignorance, incompetence, lying, or a combination of all three.

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

Sorry to butt in.

At least with Afghanistan you could legitimately say "the Taliban attacked us and we are going to show the world that doesn't happen without consequences."

To say the same about Iraq required either willful ignorance, incompetence, lying, or a combination of all three.

The overall presence in that area equated to current issues. I understand what you are saying about Iraq though. When will we learn our lesson vs. guerrilla warfare

 

[triadvolfan]

Iraq/Afghanistan invasion of 2003 was a complete mistake, inevitably creating what we are dealing with now

I agree it was a mistake, but I don't think the result (the rise of ISIS) was inevitable.

Once we went in, we should have kept a base in Iraq indefinitely. Had we done that, northern Iraq wouldn't be run by a bunch of barbarians.

Alternatively, we could have stayed out of Iraq in the first place and let the psychotic dictator keep the Islamic extremists at bay.

Either result is preferable to what we're dealing with now. My two cents.

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

I agree it was a mistake, but I don't think the result (the rise of ISIS) was inevitable.

Once we went in, we should have kept a base in Iraq indefinitely. Had we done that, northern Iraq wouldn't be run by a bunch of barbarians.

Alternatively, we could have stayed out of Iraq in the first place and let the psychotic dictator keep the Islamic extremists at bay.

Either result is preferable to what we're dealing with now. My two cents.

Reasonable two cents. I would have preferred both of those but what can we do now.