2016 Election Thread Part Deux

#3,805
#3,805
AirVol said:
If HiLIARy becomes POTUS, she will bring her reset button with her and travel the world with it, like her hot sauce.

That incident was the most embarrassing foreign policy joke in US history.
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Most embarrassing? That's not even the most embarrassing foreign policy incident we've had in the past five years. That would belong to half of the Republican establishment's decision to invite a foreign leader to essentially slam our president in an address to Congress. Think whatever you will about Obama - love him or hate him - but that was an unprecedented disgrace, one only befitting a prostitute.

Most damaging? That would belong to the Bush II administration's decision to cook the books on 9-11 and that Congress's decision to go to war in Iraq.

The Clinton reset, while laughable in retrospect, ranks probably around 137th on the list of most embarrassing/damaging US foreign policy moves. Obama's "red line" ranks well ahead of Clinton's reset.
 
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#3,807
#3,807
volprof said:
Most embarrassing? That's not even the most embarrassing foreign policy incident we've had in the past five years. That would belong to half of the Republican establishment's decision to invite a foreign leader to essentially slam our president in an address to Congress. Think whatever you will about Obama - love him or hate him - but that was an unprecedented disgrace, one only befitting a prostitute.

Most damaging? That would belong to the Bush II administration's decision to cook the books on 9-11 and that Congress's decision to go to war in Iraq.

The Clinton reset, while laughable in retrospect, ranks probably around 137th on the list of most embarrassing/damaging US foreign policy moves. Obama's "red line" ranks well ahead of Clinton's reset.
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Yeah, that whole "reset" button was embarrassing. It basically set the tone of this Administration's long list of foreign policy failures from the start. From placating a resurgent Russia to rushing out of Iraq to the Red Line in Syria to the failure to protect Americans at Benghazi and the eventual collapse in Lybia to calling ISIS the "JV Team" to maintaining a stance that global warming was the single greatest threat to the world to the Iran nuclear deal...I could go on, but you get the point.

That single incident may be low on your list of significant diplomatic faux pas, but it set the tone for the United States abdicating it's role as a world leader for the past seven plus years.
 
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#3,809
#3,809
TNsnyper20 said:
But... But.. he's changed. And he's a real outsider. He cares about us ....


Edit: I completely understand views change over the years. Particularly with someone becoming an adult. And through their twenties. My belief is that once you're in your thirties and forties you tend to stick with your values set at that point.
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He doesn't change from decade to decade. He changes hour to hour.
 
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#3,810
#3,810
IPleadInsanity said:
What I'd like to know is how Debbie Wassermann Shultz and Reince Priebus got their jobs? An embarrassment to the entire election process.
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Funny you mention DWS...

Bernie Sanders says he's backing DNC chair's primary opponent - CNNPolitics.com

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders on Saturday said he supports Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz's Democratic opponent in her August 30 primary, adding that if he is elected president, he would effectively terminate her chairmanship of the DNC.

Sanders also told Tapper that if he's elected president, he wouldn't reappoint Wasserman Schultz to head the DNC.
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Yet, the funny part is DWS making these comments:

Wasserman Schultz said. "Even though Senator Sanders has endorsed my opponent, I remain, as I have been from the beginning, neutral in the presidential Democratic primary. I look forward to working together with him for Democratic victories in the fall.
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She's been anything but neutral.
 
#3,812
#3,812
IPleadInsanity said:
What I'd like to know is how Debbie Wassermann Shultz and Reince Priebus got their jobs? An embarrassment to the entire election process.
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I am going to guess that Wasserman got her job by bringing in big money from her wealthy Jewish relatives, friends and constituents form Broward and Dade County Florida, where she was elected.

Priebus, I'm not sure, but he is the one who was instrumental in turning Wisconsin Republican, and he "discovered" Paul Ryan and Scott Walker. Those connections probably didn't hurt.
 
#3,813
#3,813
Grand Vol said:
That single incident may be low on your list of significant diplomatic faux pas, but it set the tone for the United States abdicating it's role as a world leader for the past seven plus years.
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That process has been in motion for far longer than the past 7 years of Obama. The sands of the hour glass have been running out since Vietnam, and began to quicken during the Clinton Era/1990's.
 
#3,814
#3,814
LG? Any thoughts since these aren't obviously ultra right wing fringe biased polls from Fox News?

Polls show Clinton, Trump tied in likely November matchup, record un-favorability | Fox News

Two polls released Sunday show Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton tied with presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump in a likely general election race, after having a double-digit lead just months ago.

Clinton leads Trump 46-to-43 percent in a NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, compared to a similar one in April in which Clinton had an 11-point lead.

Earlier Sunday morning, a Washington Post/ABC News poll showed voters favored Trump over Clinton 46-to-44 percent. The numbers also show Clinton losing an identical 11-point lead since earlier this spring.
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Are you going to say NBC News is biased towards Trump?

And of course, Hillary is being very nonchalant about dropping 10 points in the polls:

“Polls this far out mean nothing,” Clinton said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “They certainly mean nothing to me. And I think that if people go back and look, they really mean nothing in terms of analyzing what's going to happen in the fall.”
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#3,815
#3,815
Grand Vol said:
LG? Any thoughts since these aren't obviously ultra right wing fringe biased polls from Fox News?

Polls show Clinton, Trump tied in likely November matchup, record un-favorability | Fox News



Are you going to say NBC News is biased towards Trump?

And of course, Hillary is being very nonchalant about dropping 10 points in the polls:
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No, I agree that the national polling has tightened.

Some part of that is the discord within the Dem party over Sanders. But just as the divisiveness within the GOP was probably overrated and all the GOPers are falling into line behind Trump, once Bernie drops out, his folks will grudgingly fall in line behind her.

For all the hoopla, it sure does seem like its going to be the classic each side has 46 percent built in, its what happens with the folks in the middle. And more particularly what happens to them in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Nevada, and three or four others.
 
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#3,816
#3,816
Grand Vol said:
Yeah, that whole "reset" button was embarrassing. It basically set the tone of this Administration's long list of foreign policy failures from the start. From placating a resurgent Russia to rushing out of Iraq to the Red Line in Syria to the failure to protect Americans at Benghazi and the eventual collapse in Lybia to calling ISIS the "JV Team" to maintaining a stance that global warming was the single greatest threat to the world to the Iran nuclear deal...I could go on, but you get the point.

That single incident may be low on your list of significant diplomatic faux pas, but it set the tone for the United States abdicating it's role as a world leader for the past seven plus years.
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Although it's not done anything "off-the-rails, invade Iraq" dumb, the Obama administration has often been a foreign policy clown show. I don't, however, think that the Russian reset was a part of that show. It only seems that way in hindsight. At the time, it seemed like a perfectly reasonable approach to mending ties with the "riddle wrapped inside a mystery wrapped inside an enigma," but only proved "foolhardy" after the inevitable return of history. We're going to have to get over this 1990s mindset of doing whatever we want unopposed. The 90s were a decade of very special circumstances, possibly never to be repeated again, and they spoiled us rotten. (On a related note, I blame the 90s, as good as they were, in no small part for the ill-advised "venture" in Iraq.)

And on another (slightly) related note, it's no accident that Ras sees the Bill Clinton years as exacerbating our "fall" (which I guess just means we'll be a slightly less powerful superpower relative to the world's great powers) - when you're that far above everyone else, there's only one possible trajectory from thereon. The sheer brilliance of Rastrodamus strikes again!
 
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#3,817
#3,817
volprof said:
Although it's not done anything "off-the-rails, invade Iraq" dumb, the Obama administration has often been a foreign policy clown show. I don't, however, think that the Russian reset was a part of that show. It only seems that way in hindsight. At the time, it seemed like a perfectly reasonable approach to mending ties with the "riddle wrapped inside a mystery wrapped inside an enigma," but only proved "foolhardy" after the inevitable return of history. We're going to have to get over this 1990s mindset of doing whatever we want unopposed. The 90s were a decade of very special circumstances, possibly never to be repeated again, and they spoiled us rotten. (On a related note, I blame the 90s, as good as they were, in no small part for the ill-advised "venture" in Iraq.)

And on another (slightly) related note, it's no accident that Ras sees the Bill Clinton years as exacerbating our "fall" (which I guess just means we'll be a slightly less powerful superpower relative to the world's great powers) - when you're that far above everyone else, there's only one possible trajectory from thereon. The sheer brilliance of Rastrodamus strikes again!
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I understand where you are coming from on this, but I look at it from the perspective that the Obama Administration was in such a rush to disavow anything even remotely related to Bush, they didn't think of the long term consequences of doing so. And the "reset" button (eventually) led to the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine problems. With us cancelling (but eventually replacing) the missile defense system in East Europe, it showed the Russians we just didn't care. Or the perception thereof. And when you can't/won't meet a leader such as Putin on equal footing or back down, he will take advantage of that and push as far as he can.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree.
 
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#3,818
#3,818
Grand Vol said:
I understand where you are coming from on this, but I look at it from the perspective that the Obama Administration was in such a rush to disavow anything even remotely related to Bush, they didn't think of the long term consequences of doing so. And the "reset" button (eventually) led to the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine problems. With us cancelling (but eventually replacing) the missile defense system in East Europe, it showed the Russians we just didn't care. Or the perception thereof. And when you can't/won't meet a leader such as Putin on equal footing or back down, he will take advantage of that and push as far as he can.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree.
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The consequences of Bush's failure to appreciate consequences has been far worse than Obama's. A hundred fold worse.
 
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#3,819
#3,819
lawgator1 said:
The consequences of Bush's failure to appreciate consequences has been far worse than Obama's. A hundred fold worse.
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Thank you for your objective opinion on the matter. I'm sure we'll all take that under advisement and consider your neutral thoughts on the matter.

Now back to our scheduled programming...
 
#3,820
#3,820
lol, never would have guessed this...

Clinton declines Fox News invitation to proposed Dem debate | Fox News

Hillary Clinton's campaign has declined an invitation to a proposed Fox News-hosted Democratic presidential debate that her primary opponent Bernie Sanders tentatively accepted last week.

The campaign released a statement Monday, almost a week after Fox News invited both Democratic presidential candidates to a final debate in California before the June 7 primaries.

"We have declined Fox News' invitation to participate in a debate in California," Clinton Campaign Communications Director Jennifer Palmieri said in a statement. "As we have said previously, we plan to compete hard in the remaining primary states, particularly California, while turning our attention to the threat a Donald Trump presidency poses.
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In other words, she's scared of the questions that will come up during that kind of debate.
 
#3,822
#3,822
lawgator1 said:
Anyone could see through the Fox ploy here. Come on. Be serious.
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If she can't handle the tough questions in a pre-election debate, how is she going to handle tough questions if she happened to be elected as POTUS?

She's scared of what will come up.
 
#3,823
#3,823
lawgator1 said:
The consequences of Bush's failure to appreciate consequences has been far worse than Obama's. A hundred fold worse.
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Yes Bush was stupid to think that Iraq wanted to be free. The truth is they just don't care about personal freedom, religion dominates their daily life. Their basic nature is barbaric, something we find hard to understand. The only way to keep them in line is with a strong dictatorship. They will never fight for their freedom nor do they care about representative government. I think its clear now why Sadam was so brutal during his rule.
 
#3,824
#3,824
Grand Vol said:
If she can't handle the tough questions in a pre-election debate, how is she going to handle tough questions if she happened to be elected as POTUS?

She's scared of what will come up.
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Trump isn't romney. While he is far from who I wanted as nominee, 1 thing I can appreciate about him is this:

He will never pull punches with hildabeast. Trump is like your drunken wingman that won't shut up long enough for you to get laid. He will say anything to her, about her, in front of her. His foot will be so far up her dusty, crusty butt that she will have shoe breath. I can't wait for the comments about benghazi, servers, foundation, 3tc.3tc.
 
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#3,825
#3,825
Grand Vol said:
If she can't handle the tough questions in a pre-election debate, how is she going to handle tough questions if she happened to be elected as POTUS?

She's scared of what will come up.
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Please. They wouldn't be questions, they'd be accusations. Red meat for the Fox base. That's all that is.
 
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