D. Bates insights?

#76
#76
KBVol said:
Well said. That comparison made absolutely no sense. And yes, you're correct, we're more likely to see Sapp, McDowell and El. Berry this year at OLB when JRM isn't in there. I personally hope not, hope Dillon gets healthy and finds his way onto the field, but it's looking as if that's not very likely at this point.
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His injury(s) are significant. But both of our starting LBs have had injuries of their own.

JRM has shoulder problems since his first senester in the spring.
DKjr had a torn pec.

I've watched Dillon at practice, and im not alone in this. Hes passive at the point of attack. Even before that his run recognition is... novice. His lateral quickness seems average.

He doesnt use his hands well. Hes just not violent. DKjr needs work on his hands as well, but his instincts and play recognition are fantastic.

When I saw him at practice a few times last year, I just got the impression that he was... new to football.

Personally, its not fair when so much expectation is placed on someone who simply is not the best available option.
 
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#77
#77
LittleVol said:
I'm not sure. Marginal amount I would guess. And actually that brings up a point. Gualden hasnt played much because of injury, yet still shines in practice. We've never heard that type of talk of Dillon..

Heres what I do know. Gualden was in line to start last year before the injury.
It looks like he will be this year as well.

Dillon was not even in a discussion to start.

Jumper
Bynum
McDowell
Smith
Sapp
Are all ahead of him.

I'm not selfish like most people are on this board when concerning Dillon.

He was a highly ranked legacy that chose to follow in his dads footsteps and represent the good guys. He doesnt need to prove anything. We all know where his heart is.

Same thing for Elliot Berry if he decided to leave.

Maybe Dillon stays and as a 5th year senior finally gets in the rotation or starts.

I think he has a better opportunity somewhere else. Sometimes you just need a new situation.
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Or maybe he will be happy saying he played football and got a degree from the Univ of TN. Hopefully he will be able to say he contributed to a SEC / National Championship. Like I said he has three years of playing time left let's wait and
see. It is hard to be talked about in practice while injured. Hopefully we can pull this thread up in a couple years and say "wow people actually wanted to get rid of Bates before his 2nd season."
 
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#79
#79
BACKDOC said:
As far as an every down player, it looks like TKjr may be the only one from the legacy class that makes a mark at UT.....note not counting special teams play of Evan Berry.
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Yeah, I don't know why Butch bothered to bring in Barnett. Or Hurd. Or Gaulden. Or Wolf. Shall I go on?

You want that crow with mustard?

:realmad:
 
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#80
#80
TNnative said:
Yeah, I don't know why Butch bothered to bring in Barnett. Or Hurd. Or Gaulden. Or Wolf. Shall I go on?

You want that crow with mustard?

:realmad:
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He's especially gloomy, but he did specify LEGACY.
 
#82
#82
How many years have legacy players had under Butch? Geez you guys expect freshmen to win the Heisman or other awards every year? Make a mark can be a very subjective expectation as well. Give them a chance.
 
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#83
#83
In general Legacy Players rarely live up to their legacy, and that's everywhere not just at UT.
 
#84
#84
gunner said:
In general Legacy Players rarely live up to their legacy, and that's everywhere not just at UT.
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Yeah, I don't know. I'd like to see statistics. They've got the genes working for them. And there are plenty of success stories.
 
#85
#85
Kristy* said:
Yeah, I don't know. I'd like to see statistics. They've got the genes working for them. And there are plenty of success stories.
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A legacy player having success is completely different than living up to their legacy. Being successful doesn't necessarily equate to living up to a legacy.
 
#86
#86
IndianapolisVol said:
Still time, 2 Berry's, Bates, Creamer... Can't tell me one of these guys isnt going to leave a mark... Evan might start this fall, and he's been a game changer in the return game... 1st team All American...

I like some of the younger legacy guys like McKenzie and Warrior. With our depth in the defensive backfield and Nigel not being on campus til fall I think a redshirt year would be huge.
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It appears Creamer is going to leave his mark as someone who quit because he wasn't talented enough to see the field. Just because someone's dad played for UT, at a very high level, it doesn't mean that their kids are going to be great. I'm sure Creamer is a good player but he can't seem to crack our starting lineup.
 
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#89
#89
LittleVol said:
His injury(s) are significant. But both of our starting LBs have had injuries of their own.

JRM has shoulder problems since his first senester in the spring.
DKjr had a torn pec.

I've watched Dillon at practice, and im not alone in this. Hes passive at the point of attack. Even before that his run recognition is... novice. His lateral quickness seems average.

He doesnt use his hands well. Hes just not violent. DKjr needs work on his hands as well, but his instincts and play recognition are fantastic.

When I saw him at practice a few times last year, I just got the impression that he was... new to football.

Personally, its not fair when so much expectation is placed on someone who simply is not the best available option.
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That's interesting. I seem to recall an article where Bill Bates said he had a very high football IQ.
 
#90
#90
Bates has been hurt every step of the way here


He has a broken hip now.

Pre injury thig wanted him in the midst of the action.

He's got the size, talent, speed, etc. just a classic case of having the injury bug
 
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#91
#91
gunner said:
For every Eric Berry, there are 5 to 10 more legacies that never live up to date their fathers legacy.
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Let's talk specifics, because I'm still not buying it. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few legacies who out-did their parents - Christian McCaffrey, Odell Beckham, Berry (as mentioned). Kahlil looks to be on his way. I'm sure there are plenty who don't. I'd like to see an analysis. Otherwise, 5/10 to 1 is just pulled out of thin air.
 
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#92
#92
Kristy* said:
Let's talk specifics, because I'm still not buying it. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few legacies who out-did their parents - Christian McCaffrey, Odell Beckham, Berry (as mentioned). Kahlil looks to be on his way. I'm sure there are plenty who don't. I'd like to see an analysis. Otherwise, 5/10 to 1 is just pulled out of thin air.
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Probably because you never hear about a lot of the ones who don't out-do their parents. Jack Elway, Nate and Nick Montana, Cooper Manning, Barry Sanders Jr, Kelvin Taylor, Austin Collinsworth, Deion Sanders Jr, Corey Robinson and Alston Smith all come to mind.

But yeah, you're totally right, bro........
 
#93
#93
IndianapolisVol said:
Probably because you never hear about a lot of the ones who don't out-do their parents. Jack Elway, Nate and Nick Montana, Cooper Manning, Barry Sanders Jr, Kelvin Taylor, Austin Collinsworth, Deion Sanders Jr, Corey Robinson and Alston Smith all come to mind.

But yeah, you're totally right, bro........
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She's a girl.
 
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#94
#94
IndianapolisVol said:
Probably because you never hear about a lot of the ones who don't out-do their parents. Jack Elway, Nate and Nick Montana, Cooper Manning, Barry Sanders Jr, Kelvin Taylor, Austin Collinsworth, Deion Sanders Jr, Corey Robinson and Alston Smith all come to mind.

But yeah, you're totally right, bro........
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I like how you throw out Cooper's name, but don't mention Eli and Peyton, Bro.
 
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#95
#95
IndianapolisVol said:
Probably because you never hear about a lot of the ones who don't out-do their parents. Jack Elway, Nate and Nick Montana, Cooper Manning, Barry Sanders Jr, Kelvin Taylor, Austin Collinsworth, Deion Sanders Jr, Corey Robinson and Alston Smith all come to mind.

But yeah, you're totally right, bro........
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I'm not trying to be right about anything. I just don't think someone can say that most, or even more specifically 5 or 10 to 1, legacies don't out play their parents without some definitive numbers to back it up. I can name more who do; you can name more who don't. I am curious to know the real number. That is all. Bro.
 
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#97
#97
Kristy* said:
Let's talk specifics, because I'm still not buying it. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few legacies who out-did their parents - Christian McCaffrey, Odell Beckham, Berry (as mentioned). Kahlil looks to be on his way. I'm sure there are plenty who don't. I'd like to see an analysis. Otherwise, 5/10 to 1 is just pulled out of thin air.
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Not arguing at all Kristy, I agree with your point that the 10-15 to 1 ratio is arbitrary and likely unprovable. But, just for giggles, tried to think off the top of my head of players/sons who never did or it appears never will enjoy the success of their more famous father:

-Tulane QB Nick Montana, son of Joe Montana
-Anthony Dorsett, Tony Dorsett's son
-Eddie George's son is at Vandy, 2 star player
-Barry Sander's son, just transferred from Stanford
-SMU WR Deion Sanders, Jr
-Ray Lewis' son, plays at Coastal Carolina
-Kellen Winslow and his son Junior
-Bob Griese and son Brian Griese
-Walter Payton and his son Jarrett

Of course, there are the Mannings, Peyton and Eli who have already far exceeded the accomplishments of their outstanding NFL QB father Archie.

I'd love to see some actual lists/data that sort this out better and give us a better idea of what the actual trend is.
 
#98
#98
KBVol said:
Not arguing at all Kristy, I agree with your point that the 10-15 to 1 ratio is arbitrary and likely unprovable. But, just for giggles, tried to think off the top of my head of players/sons who never did or it appears never will enjoy the success of their more famous father:

-Tulane QB Nick Montana, son of Joe Montana
-Anthony Dorsett, Tony Dorsett's son
-Eddie George's son is at Vandy, 2 star player
-Barry Sander's son, just transferred from Stanford
-SMU WR Deion Sanders, Jr
-Ray Lewis' son, plays at Coastal Carolina
-Kellen Winslow and his son Junior
-Bob Griese and son Brian Griese
-Walter Payton and his son Jarrett

Of course, there are the Mannings, Peyton and Eli who have already far exceeded the accomplishments of their outstanding NFL QB father Archie.

I'd love to see some actual lists/data that sort this out better and give us a better idea of what the actual trend is.
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That is a very fair list. I was actually thinking more specifically a legacy player that attended their dad's alma mater. When the discussion was started, we were talking about the Vol legacies.
 
#100
#100
Kristy* said:
That is a very fair list. I was actually thinking more specifically a legacy player that attended their dad's alma mater. When the discussion was started, we were talking about the Vol legacies.
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In general Legacy Players rarely live up to their legacy, and that's everywhere not just at UT.d


Not true, I was referring to all legacies not just at UT as referenced from my original post.
 
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