Third down for Dobbs

#51
#51
KBVol said:
No, this has more to do with D4H than it does either Dobbs or AK. D4H and I had this discussion last week in another thread, he knows what I'm taking about, that's why his response tonight has been so tepid.

Last week, all I was saying is I thought we should try to get AK another 2-3 touches per game because, over the course of the 13 games schedule, he averaged 2 more yards per play on average. Wasn't saying he's better than Hurd, certainly conceded that Hurd is the workhorse and needs his carries for sure. Just that because of AK's ability in space, that finding 2-3 more touches per game would, IMO, help the offense.

However, D4H countered by saying that all of AK's numbers came against "lesser competition" and used that statement, and that statement alone, to discount the point. I countered by pointing out that, in fact, AK also averaged more yards per touch vs the better teams as well....he just didn't get near as many opportunities in most of those games.

So, fast forward to today....regarding Dobbs' 3rd down passing success and efficiency, I pointed out that, in fact, Dobbs performed much better in that regard vs the 6 worst pass defenses than he did vs the 7 best. And of course, when pointing this out, D4H changes the discussion and doesn't want to acknowledge the obvious hypocrisy, which is, if that standard or qualifier (lesser competition) is applied to AK's stats, then why don't they similarly apply to Dobbs'?

No comparison is being made in this instance in terms of AK vs Hurd or Dobbs vs any other quarterback....only which standard is being used to validate or invalidate the players' performances. I think that if we're gonna use it to nullify AK's accomplishments, which is what D4H thinks we should do, then why does that same standard not do the same to Dobbs' particular accomplishments, in this case his 3rd down passing. I think it's hypocritical to not apply it to both, while D4H thinks it only applies to AK.
Click to expand...

Smh. There is no hypocrisy.

When comparing 2 players, the qualifier of competition matters. If we're just talking about one person, then it's expected they would perform better against weaker competition.

You're really not breaking any news. It would be remarkable if Dobbs had better 3rd down numbers against better defenses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#52
#52
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
The prosecution calls forth D4H. Your rebuttal please...:popcorn:
Click to expand...

Is this your other account KBVol? Cause I find it hard to believe anyone else would find that ridiculous argument credible.

For example, if Steph Curry scores more points per game and shoots a higher 3pt% against the the 10 worst defensive teams than he does the 10 best defensive teams, doesn't make him a worse player?

Its expected that a single individual will perform better against weaker competition.

However, to use one player destroying weaker opposition as evidence that he's better than another player who faced stronger opposition is wrong. That is what the Hurd/Kamara debate was.

Josh performing better against weaker competition vis-a-vis himself really has no bearing on that other debate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#53
#53
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Smh. There is no hypocrisy.

When comparing 2 players, the qualifier of competition matters. If we're just talking about one person, then it's expected they would perform better against weaker competition.

You're really not breaking any news. It would be remarkable if Dobbs had better 3rd down numbers against better defenses.
Click to expand...

Stop with the BS. If you're gonna be fair, you apply the same standard to both AK and Dobbs....if you discount AK's numbers because of "poor competition" and not playing "real defenses", then you don't get to tout Dobbs' numbers when it's proven that his stats came vs similar defenses. That's hypocrisy on the highest order.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#54
#54
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Is this your other account KBVol? Cause I find it hard to believe anyone else would find that ridiculous argument credible.

For example, if Steph Curry scores more points per game and shoots a higher 3pt% against the the 10 worst defensive teams than he does the 10 best defensive teams, doesn't make him a worse player?

Its expected that a single individual will perform better against weaker competition.

However, to use one player destroying weaker opposition as evidence that he's better than another player who faced stronger opposition is wrong. That is what the Hurd/Kamara debate was.

Josh performing better against weaker competition vis-a-vis himself really has no bearing on that other debate.
Click to expand...

For crying out loud, are you really this stupid or are you just attempting to continue muddying the water because you've been exposed as a hypocrite? The debate has nothing to do with anything other than evaluating a player based on the same standard. And when you discount one player's performance using a "standard" that you're not willing to use to evaluate another player, you're being both dishonest and hypocritical.
 
#55
#55
Every analyst says that Dobbs needs to drastically improve accuracy if Tennessee is to make it to Atlanta.

D4H just disagrees with that analysis and blames everyone else, from the coaches to the WR to the running backs, and claims that they are the real problem. If they would just turn Dobbs lose, we would have a national championship.

There are ZERO Vol fans that want Dobbs to fail, and they all would love to see Dobbs accuracy and defensive reading, improve this season. It would mean a very successful season.

D4H would take that as validation of his insane thoughts though. There is no denying however, that Dobbs has been inaccurate and erratic in the passing game so far at UT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#56
#56
LittleDTO said:
Every analyst says that Dobbs needs to drastically improve accuracy if Tennessee is to make it to Atlanta.

D4H just disagrees with that analysis and blames everyone else, from the coaches to the WR to the running backs, and claims that they are the real problem. If they would just turn Dobbs lose, we would have a national championship.

There are ZERO Vol fans that want Dobbs to fail, and they all would love to see Dobbs accuracy and defensive reading, improve this season. It would mean a very successful season.

D4H would take that as validation of his insane thoughts though. There is no denying however, that Dobbs has been inaccurate and erratic in the passing game so far at UT.
Click to expand...

Did you even read the original post?

Dobbs leads the SEC in third down passing.

How can he be inaccurate and erratic yet lead the SEC in this most important of stats?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#57
#57
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Did you even read the original post?

Dobbs leads the SEC in third down passing.

How can he be inaccurate and erratic yet lead the SEC in this most important of stats?
Click to expand...

D4H you have got to be THE most bi-polar person on this board. Not 10 posts ago you were babbling about inferior competititon yada-yada, which is where Dobbs had his best 3rd down completion percentage, so the stats are skewed (based on your previous Kamara argument). Additionally, Dobbs has a low yards per completion average and his downfield completion percent is very low. And how can you say that third down completion percentage is THE most important stat? How can you prove that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#58
#58
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
How can he be inaccurate and erratic yet lead the SEC in this most important of stats?
Click to expand...

By completing a bunch of third down passes during blowouts of teams like UK, Vandy, Missouri but failing to do so vs UF and Bama when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter?
 
#59
#59
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Did you even read the original post?

Dobbs leads the SEC in third down passing.

How can he be inaccurate and erratic yet lead the SEC in this most important of stats?
Click to expand...

I read the article very well. If there is a WR screen, and that WR gains a first down, it goes down as a passing stat. This is completely different than Dobbs hitting a player in stride or timing on a slant or deep out.

Stats can be used in many different ways to make or break an argument. To take one set of stats and discount all the rest is deceptive at best.

Can you PLEASE explain why almost every analyst (sports writers don't count) say that Dobbs needs to really improve passing accuracy, and why you are smarter than all of them and they are wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#60
#60
KBVol said:
And look, as I went and looked this up I was impressed with how many times Dobbs came up big on 3rd down throwing the ball. That being said, as one might suspect, he was much better converting 3rd downs through the air versus the worst defenses we played as compared to the best ones. Clearly, that won't matter to D4H in this case, whereas thst was his onky point to invalidate AK's better yards per touch than Hurd, even though that actually wasn't the case.
Click to expand...
exactly. as you go back and think about it...there were plenty of 3rd and 7+ that we converted that, i like you, said whoa, that's really good.

you just can't ignore the bigger problem...the fact we were in so many of those 3rd and 7+ situations. that's the bigger issue.


Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Please cite all the deep balls Dobbs has missed?

As far as I can tell, the problem is we didn't throw the deep ball at all last year. Not that we were highly inefficient.
Click to expand...
there weren't many attempts, no argument. and while i'm not going to say the reason we didn't have more is all on Josh's arm, it would stand to reason that it was at least part of it.

you combine some still spotty pass protection, with a WR corp that never came to life, and the passing game came down to TE and RB...with the occasional deep shot.

with all facets of the passing game supposedly improving, and with the introduction of two supposedly dynamic, quick and TALL WR's in George and Williams, i'll be surprised if there's not some semblance of improvement in the passing game.

if there's not, expect this year to look a lot like last year.
 
#62
#62
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
And folks want to blame the pass game struggles on the QB.

Our wide receivers were the problem.
Click to expand...

It's balanced. Dobbs has made bad throws and the receivers have dropped good passes. The problem with you is you act like Dobbs never does anything wrong. We all want Dobbs to succeed as much as we want you to stop posting
 
  • Like
Reactions: 22 people
#73
#73
You start this thread while accusing others of pulling against players so that you'll be wrong? Lol. You seem downright giddy that Pearson hasn't gotten a shot at his NFL dream so that you can be "right" about Dobbs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top