2016 Election

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#10,776
#10,776
apevol said:
I typed up a lengthy reply, but thought better of posting it. If you'd Luke, I'll Email you more details. Just not comfortable posting more.
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I'm sorry to hear the news Ape. Hope there are lots more better days ahead for both of you.
 
#10,778
#10,778
VolnJC said:
It's the same thing with narcotics..tolerance happens whether you take them the way you are supposed to or not..its a process called receptor downregulation(basically more receptor sites are lost as opposed to regenerated so you have fewer sites for drug to bind)..so eventually you HAVE to take a higher dose just to feel normal. There is a reason they are controlled substances

Watch this documentary..we did a sample test of this when Florida was pretty much giving OxyContin out like candy because of the absence of a CSMD...many deaths many lives ruined..the guy featured in the film, had buried his wife and his brother, and two years after it was made he was dead also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGZEvXNqzkM
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You're incorrect, I think. If I remember right, you don't lose receptors, the receptors you have lose sensitivity and your body makes new receptors. Basically giving you way too many holes to fill. IE not enough dope to plug in to the receptors.
 
#10,779
#10,779
apevol said:
I typed up a lengthy reply, but thought better of posting it. If you'd Luke, I'll Email you more details. Just not comfortable posting more.
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That's cool.....didn't mean to get to personal. I was just curious. My mother was taking Humira for RA and got a little scrape on her arm..... Ended up with MRSA. I'm not sure if you ever get rid of it for good.
 
#10,780
#10,780
apevol said:
You're incorrect, I think. If I remember right, you don't lose receptors, the receptors you have lose sensitivity and your body makes new receptors. Basically giving you way too many holes to fill. IE not enough dope to plug in to the receptors.
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Well yes and no..there are arguments in both directions in the community..some subscribe to the desensitization theory. That's similar to how insulin resistance develops as the "key or the signal" no longer works to allow glucose in the cell. I think in time they will rebuild but then the patient has to be off their pain meds or find a drug that doesn't create cross tolerance.
Here is a short animation on the down regulation theory and an opposing article that isn't sure that is the main mechanism.
http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/65/1/223.full
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrB_maaAlTg
 
#10,781
#10,781
Not that it's unexpected:

Carson suspends presidential campaign | Fox News

Former neurosurgeon Ben Carson dropped out the 2016 presidential race Friday, days after declaring there was “no political path forward” for his campaign.

In a speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference, Carson said “I am leaving the campaign trail,” but promised he would remain heavily involved “in saving our nation.”

The announcement was widely expected. On Wednesday Carson sent a message to supporters saying, “I do not see a political path forward in light of last evening’s Super Tuesday primary results” and he did not attend Thursday’s Fox News debate in Detroit.
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#10,782
#10,782
VolnJC said:
It's the same thing with narcotics..tolerance happens whether you take them the way you are supposed to or not..its a process called receptor downregulation(basically more receptor sites are lost as opposed to regenerated so you have fewer sites for drug to bind)..so eventually you HAVE to take a higher dose just to feel normal. There is a reason they are controlled substances

Watch this documentary..we did a sample test of this when Florida was pretty much giving OxyContin out like candy because of the absence of a CSMD...many deaths many lives ruined..the guy featured in the film, had buried his wife and his brother, and two years after it was made he was dead also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGZEvXNqzkM
Click to expand...

This will be my last post on the topic because we've sorta hijacked the thread. If you want to bump a previous drug debate or start a new thread, I'll bite.

But it's not the same with narcotics. The built up tolerance only effects the user. With antibiotics it effects everyone.
 
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#10,784
#10,784
Vol8188 said:
Tobacco hasn't been banned. It's still even sold over the counter. Still addictive too. Yet use is declining
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Different deal. Moronic people see those slick as on TV telling you that if you take this pill you will get better. The lawyer even tells you at ludicrous speed that side effects can include death. Doesn't matter. Nobody hears that. The only part they hear is that it will fix whatever problem they think they have. So you want to make all drugs available. Here ya go. Stub your toe? try morphine. It's available now at WalMart.

Stupid.

Tobacco use is declining because the millennials are buying into vapor cigarettes as a safe alternative.
 
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#10,785
#10,785
VolnJC said:
Even with the laws we have now the average dose of morphine has increased 600% in 10 years because of tolerance!

In an attempt to treat patient pain better, practitioners have greatly increased their rate of opioid prescribing over the past decade. Drug distribution through the pharmaceutical supply chain was the equivalent of 96 mg of morphine per person in 1997 and approximately 700 mg per person in 2007, an increase of >600% (6). That 700 mg of morphine per person is enough for everyone in the United States to take a typical 5 mg dose of Vicodin (hydrocodone and acetaminophen) every 4 hours for 3 weeks. Persons who abuse opioids have learned to exploit this new practitioner sensitivity to patient pain, and clinicians struggle to treat patients without overprescribing these drugs.
CDC Grand Rounds: Prescription Drug Overdoses ? a U.S. Epidemic

FIGURE 1. Rate* of unintentional drug overdose deaths — United States, 1970–2007
m6101a3f1.gif
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Maybe just more junkies? Or maybe I misinterpreted your post completely.
 
#10,786
#10,786
Vol8188 said:
This will be my last post on the topic because we've sorta hijacked the thread. If you want to bump a previous drug debate or start a new thread, I'll bite.

But it's not the same with narcotics. The built up tolerance only effects the user. With antibiotics it effects everyone.
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Sounds like the right's argument concerning abortion. Totally against it (except in the case of incest or it he life of the mother is in jeopardy) Not sure why that makes any difference either. Your entire argument is lame, because someone jacked up on legal morphine crashes and kills another person, that affects someone else. So maybe you need to define how many people need to be affected before regulation of some sort is necessary.
 
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#10,790
#10,790
#10,794
#10,794
SpaceCoastVol said:
Sounds like the right's argument concerning abortion. Totally against it (except in the case of incest or it he life of the mother is in jeopardy) Not sure why that makes any difference either. Your entire argument is lame, because someone jacked up on legal morphine crashes and kills another person, that affects someone else. So maybe you need to define how many people need to be affected before regulation of some sort is necessary.
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Your argument would only be valid if controlling morphine prevented this. Tons of people still drive under the influence legally purchased opiates.

But like I said earlier, I'm done with this argument in here. If you bump an old thread or start a new one I'll bite
 
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