2016 Election

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#7,401
#7,401
Vol8188 said:
I agree. I don't feel the should apply to state and local governments, but I would hope that most state constitutions would include similiar provisions
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The most blatant example is the founders were totally cool with state-sponsored religion. They just didn't want a federally-sponsored religion.
 
#7,404
#7,404
Carl Pickens said:
First, I'm not sure where this hero Bush line you keep repeating is coming from......unless its from the How to Fellate Obama handbook. There aren't any Bush worshippers in this forum.

How exactly does Obamacare "try to give everyone the RIGHT to affordable healthcare"? I'm not sure how this works. Do you mind explaining this?
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Standard leftist playbook. If all else fails in an argument, invoke the power of George W. Bush.
 
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#7,405
#7,405
bnhunt said:
Couldn't agree less on Obamacare. Trying to give everyone the right to affordable healthcare is one helluva legacy in my opinion. However, your hero Bush does have the legacy of getting us into two (2) unwinnable "wars" that cost thousands of American lives so Cheney and his cronies could line their pockets.
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We are in Syria right now fighting. We helped overthrow Muammar Gaddafi in Libya. Our meddling in Syria has brought in Russia. Your boy Obama's hands aren't clean. I have an uncle that worked in the Pentagon. Our war in Afghanistan could be looked at as a result of Bill Clinton's failure to get Osama Bin Laden when he had the chance. Your hero made a deal with our worst enemies Iran. That is by their own words. Your boy hero is absolutely wrong and whatever you say about G W Bush, there is twice as much that can be said about Obama by anyone who knows what is going on. You remember that. You may get away with the things that you say on here but you would get torn up by any competent scholar.
 
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#7,406
#7,406
bnhunt said:
No question. We would probably still be in two (2) unwinnable "wars", would not have affordable healthcare for a majority of Americans, and wouldn't be trying to take marninigful steps to address gun violence.
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Both wars were winnable. Our politicians are the ones who choose not to, much like Vietnam. And yes I'm including both Bush and Obama in that statement.
 
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#7,407
#7,407
I really enjoyed how Bernie brought up mossadegh and the CIA and British coup on Iran during the 50s. Iran had the opportunity to internally turn into a democracy, but US/UK self interest in regards to maintaining power and oil in the region were more important than allowing Iran to convert from a monarchy to a democracy. 20 years later Iran eventually has a revolution to overthrow the king and is now unfortunately a theocracy. Imagine how different the state of the Middle East would have been if the British and U.S. did not interfere at the time. Imagine how different the Middle East would have been if Iran was to be a democracy, rather than theocracy.
 
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#7,408
#7,408
Persian Vol said:
I really enjoyed how Bernie brought up mossadegh and the CIA and British coup on Iran during the 50s. Iran had the opportunity to internally turn into a democracy, but US/UK self interest in regards to maintaining power and oil in the region were more important than allowing Iran to convert from a monarchy to a democracy. 20 years later Iran eventually has a revolution to overthrow the king and is now unfortunately a theocracy. Imagine how different the state of the Middle East would have been if the British and U.S. did not interfere at the time. Imagine how different the Middle East would have been if Iran was to be a democracy, rather than theocracy.
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I think you're overestimating the internal appetite for democracy in Iran at the time.
 
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#7,411
#7,411
I bring this up because it is a subtle moment in history, yet lead to major consequences in the future.
 
#7,413
#7,413
Persian Vol said:
I think your underestimating it. The people hated the shah. They wanted a changed. Mossadegh nationalized the oil industry. He was a well liked figure.
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So being from that area, or lineage from that area at least, do you honestly think we'll ever see normal relations between Iran and the US in our lifetimes?
 
#7,414
#7,414
Hillary Clinton: Candidate Says Muslims Must Feel 'Welcomed' During PBS NewsHour Debate
“American Muslims are on the frontline of our defense,” Clinton said Thursday. She added that anti-Muslim rhetoric from some political corners is "not only offensive, it’s dangerous."
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At this point, I wouldn't care if someone shot her point blank. What a moron. I find her offensive and dangerous. She's a train wreck of a person if you ask me. She's Charlie Kelly stupid. Wildcard.
 
#7,415
#7,415
Persian Vol said:
I think your underestimating it. The people hated the shah. They wanted a changed. Mossadegh nationalized the oil industry. He was a well liked figure.
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I agree that the coup, in the long run, was a strategic misstep. But that's not to say that a theocracy wouldn't have risen up had Mossadegh stayed in power. Democracies have historically been unstable in that region and it wouldn't be a far-fetched position to say that it may have failed regardless of if Operation Ajax had happened or not.
 
#7,416
#7,416
hog88 said:
Good to see you back.
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I tried straying away from the politics forum because to be honest, it requires a good amount of time to stay involved in these conversations in depth conversations. But with the heat of the election, I couldn't resist.
 
#7,417
#7,417
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vczoazK1mxU[/youtube]



What is wrong with this stupid b****? How is she at this level in life when she is a complete moron and liar?
 
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#7,418
#7,418
Who would have ever thought the DNC would get softball questions.

Shocking I'll tell you, absolutely stunned.

FBI, foundation controversies missing from Clinton questioning at debate | Fox News

While Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders sparred Thursday night over issues ranging from health care to police brutality to campaign finance -- and even who liked Henry Kissinger – what was glaringly missing was any mention of the government's investigations into Clinton’s email use or the Clinton Foundation.

Both PBS moderators -- Judy Woodruff and Gwen Ifill -- and Sanders ignored the controversies that have dogged Clinton's candidacy, despite fresh developments on both fronts.

A top FBI official confirmed earlier this week that the probe regarding the former secretary of state’s private email server remains “ongoing.” This, after Clinton boldly declared at the last debate she’s “100 percent confident” nothing will come of the investigation.
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That Mount Everest sized elephant in the room is getting ignored like nothing I've ever seen before. This goes way beyond the "help" Obama got from Candy Crowley in 2012.
 
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#7,419
#7,419
TOP said:
At this point, I wouldn't care if someone shot her point blank. What a moron. I find her offensive and dangerous. She's a train wreck of a person if you ask me. She's Charlie Kelly stupid. Wildcard.
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Anti-Muslim rhetoric is dangerous. And there are Muslim soldiers in the US Army. She said some stupid $hit last night, and this is what upsets you?
 
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#7,420
#7,420
Grand Vol said:
So being from that area, or lineage from that area at least, do you honestly think we'll ever see normal relations between Iran and the US in our lifetimes?
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I don't think anyone would be able to predict that to be honest. As long as Iran remains a theocracy, I would say impossible. If Iran were to have a successful revolution (2009 came somewhat close), I think a purely democratic Iran would have a better chance of being in normal relations with the U.S, but in reality both parties have conflicting interest and motives in the region. But I think another revolutionized Iran is the only chance to be honest, and even then, I'm not sure if they will spontaneously be fond of America. As long as Mr. Ayatollah remains a dictator, not gonna happen.
 
#7,421
#7,421
Grand Vol said:
Who would have ever thought the DNC would get softball questions.

Shocking I'll tell you, absolutely stunned.

FBI, foundation controversies missing from Clinton questioning at debate | Fox News



That Mount Everest sized elephant in the room is getting ignored like nothing I've ever seen before. This goes way beyond the "help" Obama got from Candy Crowley in 2012.
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Yeah, it's like we're living in sim city. I can't believe this is real life. "God" must be a Punk'd fan.
 
#7,422
#7,422
Persian Vol said:
I don't think anyone would be able to predict that to be honest. As long as Iran remains a theocracy, I would say impossible. If Iran were to have a successful revolution (2009 came somewhat close), I think a purely democratic Iran would have a better chance of being in normal relations with the U.S, but in reality both parties have conflicting interest and motives in the region. But I think another revolutionized Iran is the only chance to be honest, and even then, I'm not sure if they will spontaneously be fond of America. As long as Mr. Ayatollah remains a dictator, not gonna happen.
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Thanks for the in depth answer.

A follow up since we've got you on the hook. Do you think the people of Iran want a regional superpower status for their nation? I'm pretty sure that's what the government is aiming for. But do they have the people's support in that?
 
#7,424
#7,424
alexmanu said:
I agree that the coup, in the long run, was a strategic misstep. But that's not to say that a theocracy wouldn't have risen up had Mossadegh stayed in power. Democracies have historically been unstable in that region and it wouldn't be a far-fetched position to say that it may have failed regardless of if Operation Ajax had happened or not.
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I don't think the people of Iran cared that much about religion, but more about getting rid of the shah. Ayatollah Khomeini gathered a lot of support not because the Iran populace were in that much support of a theocracy, but that they just wanted change. It was unfortunate that he became the opposition.

I don't believe that if mossadegh were in power, that he would have been replaced with a theocracy. He was a good leader, and was well liked. And I think Iran would have been able to handle a democracy. Iran in general has always been much more internally stable than the other middle eastern countries. Iran has a very rich history and culture. A democratic Iran would have been very similar to modern day Turkey, but probably nicer.
 
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#7,425
#7,425
Grand Vol said:
And bump for Huff.
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Oh I missed it.

I think it's 12 and 13? I never get the numbers right, but it's the ones that allowed the federal government to turn the bill of rights on the states.

And when I say "illegally passed", I mean that the southern states were coerced to vote for it, and West Virginia was illegally recognized as a state, and it was one of the deciding votes.
 
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