Sex assaults in Cologne on New Year's Eve

#201
#201
And if it was Tove Lo seeking asylum, I'd certainly entertain her request.

Best thing to come out of Sweden in a long time.
 
#202
#202
Grand Vol said:
Not really misleading. They are already in Sweden, so technically they will be deported.

You can call it rejected if you desire, but the point still stands Sweden is ready to send a good amount packing.
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It is misleading as hell. It is their normal vetting process and Sweden accepts a higher percentage than most EU countries. Fox is sensationalizing this with a headline that makes a casual reader believe that Sweden had agreed to take these folks in and now they are being deported. It's a bullspit headline and, as smart as you are, you know it.

BTW, I would hope our vetting process would accomplish the same. Everyone does not get accepted, nor should they.
 
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#203
#203
ClearwaterVol said:
It is misleading as hell. It is their normal vetting process and Sweden accepts a higher percentage than most EU countries. Fox is sensationalizing this with a headline that makes a casual reader believe that Sweden had agreed to take these folks in and now they are being deported. It's a bullspit headline and, as smart as you are, you know it.

BTW, I would hope our vetting process would accomplish the same. Everyone does not get accepted, nor should they.
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How is it misleading when they are already in country?
 
#205
#205
ClearwaterVol said:
Being deported has a far different connotation than rejected for asylum status especially in the context of the sexual assault cases.
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Which is why I said I didn't think it was deserving of a new thread.

However, is related to the situation as both involve refugees/asylum seekers.
 
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#206
#206
Grand Vol said:
Which is why I said I didn't think it was deserving of a new thread.

However, is related to the situation as both involve refugees/asylum seekers.
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So, you are acknowledging that the word deported paints a far different picture than rejects and yet you still claim that the title isn't misleading?

If you refuse to admit this it makes it seem like you are arguing to argue. Kind of like a lawyer. :)
 
#207
#207
ClearwaterVol said:
So, you are acknowledging that the word deported paints a far different picture than rejects and yet you still claim that the title isn't misleading?
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Let me put it this way, if someone was to apply for an US immigration visa through a foreign consulate and was denied, would they be "deported" or simply "rejected"?

Now if they were in this nation and applied for an immigration visa or in asylum status and were denied, would they be rejected then deported?

It's a simple matter of a time and place. Once in the country, in this case Sweden, they will be deported after being rejected. If they weren't, they would simply be rejected.

ClearwaterVol said:
If you refuse to admit this it makes it seem like you are arguing to argue. Kind of like a lawyer. :)
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No, I have morals. I couldn't be a lawyer.
 
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#208
#208
Grand Vol said:
Let me put it this way, if someone was to apply for an US immigration visa through a foreign consulate and was denied, would they be "deported" or simply "rejected"?

Now if they were in this nation and applied for an immigration visa or in asylum status and were denied, would they be rejected then deported?

It's a simple matter of a time and place. Once in the country, in this case Sweden, they will be deported after being rejected. If they weren't, they would simply be rejected.


No, I have morals. I couldn't be a lawyer.
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I understand that from a technical standpoint the description is accurate, but it is still misleading and is designed to further an agenda rather than objectively portray the story.

I won't deny that some lawyers have no ethics, but the vast majority of lawyers I know take their ethical duties very seriously. The ethics with which lawyers must comply are far more stringent that those which the average businessman exhibits. I have owned my own non legal business (not illegal, but rather unrelated to the practice of law) before I went to law school and what went on in that arena was far shadier than the practice of law.
 
#209
#209
ClearwaterVol said:
I understand that from a technical standpoint the description is accurate, but it is still misleading and is designed to further an agenda rather than objectively portray the story.

I won't deny that some lawyers have no ethics, but the vast majority of lawyers I know take their ethical duties very seriously. The ethics with which lawyers must comply are far more stringent that those which the average businessman exhibits. I have owned my own non legal business (not illegal, but rather unrelated to the practice of law) before I went to law school and what went on in that arena was far shadier than the practice of law.
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so instead we should use inaccurate words to correctly describe a situation even though there might be some confusion in using the wrong words when the right word is there?
 
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#210
#210
LouderVol said:
so instead we should use inaccurate words to correctly describe a situation even though there might be some confusion in using the wrong words when the right word is there?
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Both words are correct. One is designed to make people think that the refugees were accepted and then did something to trigger a deportation when they were never accepted in the first place. It's done by design to promote an agenda.
 
#211
#211
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#213
#213
ClearwaterVol said:
Both words are correct. One is designed to make people think that the refugees were accepted and then did something to trigger a deportation when they were never accepted in the first place. It's done by design to promote an agenda.
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Or you're just really digging into the words.
 
#214
#214
Grand Vol said:
Or you're just really digging into the words.
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Words are important and by using certain words the story can either be neutral or designed to advocate or push an agenda.

Go back to your objections in the occupier thread. You take issue with calling it a Federal Building because it gives greater weight to the action of those men than deserved. If the stories were about a group of farmers that took over the seasonal barracks for firefighters which aren't needed until June it sounds much less menacing than An Armed Militia Storms and Takes Over Federal Building. Both are technically accurate, but as you took umbrage with the latter you obviously understand how important words are to the meaning of a story.
 
#215
#215
ClearwaterVol said:
Words are important and by using certain words the story can either be neutral or designed to advocate or push an agenda.

Go back to your objections in the occupier thread. You take issue with calling it a Federal Building because it gives greater weight to the action of those men than deserved. If the stories were about a group of farmers that took over the seasonal barracks for firefighters which aren't needed until June it sounds much less menacing than An Armed Militia Storms and Takes Over Federal Building. Both are technically accurate, but as you took umbrage with the latter you obviously understand how important words are to the meaning of a story.
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Sweden is deporting those that didn't get granted a request for asylum.

Neutral.

Sweden is deporting those violent Islamic radicals because they hate Muslims and it's a really bad idea.

Biased.

Sweden is rejecting the requests for asylum for 80,000 people already in their country and sending them elsewhere.

Happy face and dancing around the word "deporting."
 
#216
#216
Grand Vol said:
Sweden is deporting those that didn't get granted a request for asylum.

Neutral.

Sweden is deporting those violent Islamic radicals because they hate Muslims and it's a really bad idea.

Biased.

Sweden is rejecting the requests for asylum for 80,000 people already in their country and sending them elsewhere.

Happy face and dancing around the word "deporting."
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Armed Militia Takes Over Federal Building

Neutral?
 
#218
#218
Grand Vol said:
Inflammatory.

I know what you've been getting at, but it's an apples to oranges comparison. Even the wording in the article said "expelled" which is far worse than saying "deported."
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It might be a golden delicious to granny smith comparison, but it's not too far off.

Deported and expelled paint different pictures. Deportation makes one think that the person being did something wrong. Maybe they were in the country illegally without seeking asylum or maybe they were arrested prior to becoming a citizen. In this case, we don't know why the paperwork was rejected. It could have been that the person was a scumbag or it could have been that they simply could not sufficiently document themselves. Either way they were not accepted, but there are no allegations of the type of illegal activity that would typically accompany a deportation proceeding.
 
#219
#219
ClearwaterVol said:
It might be a golden delicious to granny smith comparison, but it's not too far off.

Deported and expelled paint different pictures. Deportation makes one think that the person being did something wrong. Maybe they were in the country illegally without seeking asylum or maybe they were arrested prior to becoming a citizen. In this case, we don't know why the paperwork was rejected. It could have been that the person was a scumbag or it could have been that they simply could not sufficiently document themselves. Either way they were not accepted, but there are no allegations of the type of illegal activity that would typically accompany a deportation proceeding.
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Actually, I'd say expelling tends to lead a person to believe something more was wrong.

You get expelled from school for being bad.
 
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#220
#220
Grand Vol said:
Actually, I'd say expelling tends to lead a person to believe something more was wrong.

You get expelled from school for being bad.
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And truly WGAF? Expelled, deported does it really matter what word is used?
 
#225
#225
ClearwaterVol said:
It matters when the news outlets are shaping public opinion by the manner in which they report.
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Water is wet...

Do I think the term "federal building" is misleading? Sure. Because the way it was originally reported I thought it was something serious. Until I found out for myself it was pretty much a damn shack and people were making a mountain out of a molehill.

On the other hand, deporting 80,000 people means, well, deporting 80,000 people that couldn't qualify for the visa. It means exactly that. Not instigating anything, just the fact that a whole butt-ton of people were going to be sent away.

Apples, oranges.
 
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