#OregonUnderAttack

#177
#177
volinbham said:
I said someone from the group claimed that (saw an interview on the news).

I wasn't saying he in fact did have his hands up.

My point was we don't know all the facts to so blame only the protestors is premature. They broke the law and set the stage so they at least share some of the blame but I'm not letting LE off the hook until I have more facts.

As was posted several times in this thread; apparently LE was posing as the protestors and instigating some things. Perhaps they over reacted in this situation.
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Fair enough.
 
#178
#178
MT LeConte said:
Where did you get your information that he was running towards someone? No details have been released.
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No official details. Various news outlets have had "unofficial" statements that he tried running around a roadblock, crashed his car, and then got out of his vehicle and ran towards the police/FBI. Then he was supposedly told to stop and he didn't, so they shot him.

Now, those accounts might turn out to be false, but that was being reported this morning by some of the mainstream outlets. I think ABC had a brief article about it. Regardless, law enforcement needs to release a video unless they are hiding something or trying to provoke militias into doing something drastic. Apparently some have now made a call to arms of sorts, and the last thing we need is people killing each other over something stupid.
 
#179
#179
davethevol said:
No official details. Various news outlets have had "unofficial" statements that he tried running around a roadblock, crashed his car, and then got out of his vehicle and ran towards the police/FBI. Then he was supposedly told to stop and he didn't, so they shot him.

Now, those accounts might turn out to be false, but that was being reported this morning by some of the mainstream outlets. I think ABC had a brief article about it. Regardless, law enforcement needs to release a video unless they are hiding something or trying to provoke militias into doing something drastic. Apparently some have now made a call to arms of sorts, and the last thing we need is people killing each other over something stupid.
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Presumably you thought the St. Louis riots after Mike Brown were perfectly justified as well?

Regardless, LE enforcement needs to chill a bit. There's too much aggression in all of these events of late. Too many people killed.
 
#180
#180
jvol1 said:
Presumably you thought the St. Louis riots after Mike Brown were perfectly justified as well?

Regardless, LE enforcement needs to chill a bit. There's too much aggression in all of these events of late. Too many people killed.
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I didn't think the St. Louis riots were justified (no riots are ever) and I don't think this situation is justified either at this point.
 
#181
#181
davethevol said:
I didn't think the St. Louis riots were justified (no riots are ever) and I don't think this situation is justified either at this point.
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But the complaint of the militias would be pretty much the same as the rioters, would it not? Someone murdered by the police. Would an insurrection not be equivalent to a riot in this case?
 
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#182
#182
volinbham said:
As was posted several times in this thread; apparently LE was posing as the protestors and instigating some things. Perhaps they over reacted in this situation.
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Allegedly.

I watched the video posted by DTH and I can tell you for a fact that when one runs that kind of plate, it doesn't come back as "undercover FBI." Now it could be that was paraphrased in the gentleman's statement. But unmarked "undercover" cars won't come back like that on an NCIC check.

And before the normal crew comes in claiming I'm getting all pro-cop, I wouldn't put it past such agencies to be provocative and use such tactics. So it remains to be seen.
 
#183
#183
jvol1 said:
But the complaint of the militias would be pretty much the same as the rioters, would it not? Someone murdered by the police. Would an insurrection not be equivalent to a riot in this case?
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If you can't see the difference between a violent protest with destruction of property and a non-violent protest with little to no destruction of property, then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm all for people standing up for themselves when they've been wronged and can't get adequate justice, but most of the rioters use it as an excuse to rape, pillage, and thug out. In the case of the militia stand-offs, the biggest destruction of property came from the BLM, not the ranchers that were protesting. And now the only death was the result of the government. The militiamen have not killed anyone that I'm aware of. And I do not support the militias, but I do think their presence at the Bundy Ranch standoff kept it from getting out of control, as their were snipers from the government just waiting for an excuse to shoot protesters. Had their not been so much video available and enough people to stand their ground, it would have turned out to be another Waco or Ruby Ridge.
 
#186
#186
This was published on a FB page of the FreeCapitalistProject which is a bunch of Mormons sympathetic to the Bundys, so take it FWIW:

They are claiming eyewitnesses said it was an ambush. Lavoy was not rushing anyone. They are saying unprovoked they shot him while he was down. Lavoy was taking women in his vehicle to go ask the Sheriff if they could get the women out. After shooting him they shot up the vehicle. Hundreds of bullets.
 
#187
#187
n_huffhines said:
This was published on a FB page of the FreeCapitalistProject which is a bunch of Mormons sympathetic to the Bundys, so take it FWIW:

They are claiming eyewitnesses said it was an ambush. Lavoy was not rushing anyone. They are saying unprovoked they shot him while he was down. Lavoy was taking women in his vehicle to go ask the Sheriff if they could get the women out. After shooting him they shot up the vehicle. Hundreds of bullets.
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I hope they have a video.
 
#188
#188
n_huffhines said:
This was published on a FB page of the FreeCapitalistProject which is a bunch of Mormons sympathetic to the Bundys, so take it FWIW:

They are claiming eyewitnesses said it was an ambush. Lavoy was not rushing anyone. They are saying unprovoked they shot him while he was down. Lavoy was taking women in his vehicle to go ask the Sheriff if they could get the women out. After shooting him they shot up the vehicle. Hundreds of bullets.
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Interesting that suddenly they wanted go get the women out when the sheriff had been asking them to leave for weeks. Surely there is some kind of video of this either taken by dash cam or the ranchers cell phones. I hope so anyway
 
#193
#193
When BLM and the ranchers get passed the fabricated race issue and realize they share a common enemy, things could get scary. For now though the race non-issue will keep them in line.
 
#194
#194
Don't you by definition have to take with a grain of salt claims by people who were in the midst of a week-long violation of a number of laws?
 
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#195
#195
CNCVol88 said:
When BLM and the ranchers get passed the fabricated race issue and realize they share a common enemy, things could get scary. For now though the race non-issue will keep them in line.
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The Bureau of Land Management and ranchers don't get along because of race issues?
 
#198
#198
lawgator1 said:
Don't you by definition have to take with a grain of salt claims by people who were in the midst of a week-long violation of a number of laws?
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Of course. I preemptively covered this.

You're the among the most blindly biased people on this board. Take some of that opposition skepticism and point it at your beloved party for once. ***
 
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#200
#200
Well, sounds like this could still get a little ugly. One of the militia nutjobs is requesting backups to the refuge and is telling people to kill any law enforcement members that try to block them.
 
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