Is Barnes too tough on his players?

#351
#351
LittleCat said:
How are those connected? Last season one of the teams in 11th/12th finished with 17 wins. A few years ago a team finished 11/12 with 18 wins.

USCjr will probably be a good example of that this season. Might only get 6 or 7 SEC wins and still have 18 wins.
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I asked bruin what the average record was for teams 11-14 since the expansion, factor in our OOC SOS and it's a pretty easy connection that could be made.
 
#352
#352
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm telling you what multiple computer models predicted us at, why should those be thrown out but your Vegas lines be considered, is there any real reason other than your agenda here?

Well, since the SEC expanded to 14 teams what's the average record of the teams that finished 11-14? I don't know the number, but I'm gonna guess it's around 13-15 wins, doubtful a team with 20 wins finishes 11-14, no?
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USC had 17 wins last year and was 6-12 in the league


How on earth can a computer generate scores for teams with players the computer has no data on?

Computer data is worthless without a basis for such data
 
#353
#353
BruinVol said:
USC had 17 wins last year and was 6-12 in the league


How on earth can a computer generate scores for teams with players the computer has no data on?

Computer data is worthless without a basis for such data
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I'm aware of what one team finished, I asked what the average was, I also mentioned OOC SOS, what was USC's last year?

If you say so, KenPom is a house hold name amongst both basketball enthusiasts and gamblers early in the season, they credit his data and formula for being ahead of everyone else. Again, if these computers suited your motives here and were saying 18 wins preseason you'd be leading the charge of how reliable those models are.
 
#354
#354
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm aware of what one team finished, I asked what the average was, I also mentioned OOC SOS, what was USC's last year?

If you say so, KenPom is a house hold name amongst both basketball enthusiasts and gamblers early in the season, they credit his data and formula for being ahead of everyone else. Again, if these computers suited your motives here and were saying 18 wins preseason you'd be leading the charge of how reliable those models are.
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BTO

It's dang simply .

My expectation was 16-17 wins and it's been that way all year. I don't need a computer that used kasongo and Alexander's Canadian stats to come up with a formula to change my expectations during the year

Your pick was 18wins and now you are using that computer formula for your changed expectations

It's comical but predictable
 
#355
#355
bleedingTNorange said:
Well media and coaches also picked us to finish 11th or 12th, which would be right around that 13/14 win mark overall also, so I'm guessing if you could find a Vegas number it would be similar.
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The 11th place team in the SEC has averaged just under 17wins the last 5 years

The 12th place team just under 14. Miss state won only 10 one year that skewed that number
 
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#356
#356
BruinVol said:
BTO

It's dang simply .

My expectation was 16-17 wins and it's been that way all year. I don't need a computer that used kasongo and Alexander's Canadian stats to come up with a formula to change my expectations during the year

Your pick was 18wins and now you are using that computer formula for your changed expectations

It's comical but predictable
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Not sure where you got that from, but ok :crazy:

You were telling board members how you based expectations on Vegas and VN.com, yet 1. Couldn't provide a link for Vegas preseason odds and 2. Then dismiss multiple computer models that disagree with your motive and 3. Discount media and coach predictions, because again they don't fit your narrative.

It's VERY common for fans to hope for better, or always think the grass is greener, as someone already called you out on go check out the football predictions thread. So many 10-2 and 9-3 predictions, and more 11-1 predictions than 8-4, so did Jones fail to meet expectations because VN.com set the bar at 9-3/10-2?

My prediction was 18 wins, I never said that's a bare minimum expectation, so for the people who said 22 or 23 wins that's what they expected the Vols to win? Seriously? You can think the Vols were going to overachieve, in fact I mentioned that multiple times, that I thought we'd surprise some people and win a few we weren't picked to, to this point that hasn't happened, but again that doesn't mean they're way off pace as you suggest.

Again, media and coaches had them finishing 12th I believe, the computer modules had them finished around 11th and winning 13-14 games, did the fans on VN had Tennessee winning ~17 games, yes they absolutely did, but maybe when asking for an expert opinion you frequent VN, comical, but predictable.
 
#357
#357
BruinVol said:
The 11th place team in the SEC has averaged just under 17wins the last 5 years

The 12th place team just under 14. Miss state won only 10 one year that skewed that number
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So then given our OOC SOS being what it is, it's pretty reasonable to say the media predicted us to win ~14 games.
 
#358
#358
So BTO the fact you predicted 18 wins doesn't impact how you are going to view at 13-14 win season?

Should it happen Surely you will see it as underachieving won't you?
 
#361
#361
BruinVol said:
No.

The media doesn't view the OOS while voting on where teams will finish in the SEC that is ludicrous
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That's not what I said at all. If they're predicting us to finish as the 11-12 best team in SEC play, that means they're expecting us to be one of the worst teams in the league, no? And in past years the worst teams in the league have averaged around ~15 wins a season, while playing an easier OOC schedule than ours, so if you use common sense it's not all that difficult to think 14-15 wins is about the mark, but again I don't expect you to understand or accept this as it doesn't fit your motive.
 
#362
#362
BruinVol said:
So BTO the fact you predicted 18 wins doesn't impact how you are going to view at 13-14 win season?

Should it happen Surely you will see it as underachieving won't you?
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Again, you don't listen. If I predicted 30 wins, does that mean anything less is an underachievement? Next year do I need to say well as a fan I'm hoping they can win a few they're not expected to and go 20-11, but really I'm expecting a record no worse than 16-14, just to make Bruin happy?

I said 18-13, and I also said I expected them to win a few they weren't picked too, I admitted that 18 wins was better than any non-Vol fans was predicting: whether that's computers, media, coaches, other fans etc. 18 was a bit higher number than most everyone else predicted/expected.
 
#363
#363
bleedingTNorange said:
Again, you don't listen. If I predicted 30 wins, does that mean anything less is an underachievement? Next year do I need to say well as a fan I'm hoping they can win a few they're not expected to and go 20-11, but really I'm expecting a record no worse than 16-14, just to make Bruin happy?

I said 18-13, and I also said I expected them to win a few they weren't picked too, I admitted that 18 wins was better than any non-Vol fans was predicting: whether that's computers, media, coaches, other fans etc. 18 was a bit higher number than most everyone else predicted/expected.
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Ok

So anything less than 16wins is underachieving for you

I agree . Let's see what happens as it's an uphill battle to 16 IMO
 
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#364
#364
BruinVol said:
Ok

So anything less than 16wins is underachieving for you

I agree . Let's see what happens as it's an uphill battle to 16 IMO
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Lmao where did I say that? You are the king at putting words in people's mouth, I literally said "next year" should I say, and that's the only time I mentioned 16 wins, and it was a completely hypothetical question as to how I need to word my posts in the future since you apparently aren't aware of a difference between expectations and predictions.

For me to say Barnes just did an utterly awful job he'd probably have to win 14 games or less, maybe 15, if he wins 15-16 games it's a meh job, about what I expected, 17-19 wins was a very good job, 20+ wins and he deserves COY considerations.
 
#365
#365
bleedingTNorange said:
Lmao where did I say that? You are the king at putting words in people's mouth, I literally said "next year" should I say, and that's the only time I mentioned 16 wins, and it was a completely hypothetical question as to how I need to word my posts in the future since you apparently aren't aware of a difference between expectations and predictions.

For me to say Barnes just did an utterly awful job he'd probably have to win 14 games or less, maybe 15, if he wins 15-16 games it's a meh job, about what I expected, 17-19 wins was a very good job, 20+ wins and he deserves COY considerations.
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My fault I completely read that wrong .

So 14 wins you will say Barnes has done a utterly awful job.

15 and 16 is meh.

I can go along with that.
 
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#369
#369
bleedingTNorange said:
Lmao where did I say that? You are the king at putting words in people's mouth, I literally said "next year" should I say, and that's the only time I mentioned 16 wins, and it was a completely hypothetical question as to how I need to word my posts in the future since you apparently aren't aware of a difference between expectations and predictions.

For me to say Barnes just did an utterly awful job he'd probably have to win 14 games or less, maybe 15, if he wins 15-16 games it's a meh job, about what I expected, 17-19 wins was a very good job, 20+ wins and he deserves COY considerations.
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16 is meh, 17 is a very good job?

Why do we have to put a number on everything? Think how silly that sounds. A miss or made shot at the end of a single game is the difference in a "very good year" and a "meh year."

Can people not use their eyes to judge a team and a season? The individual player improvement is evident to me. The lack of overall talent, size and depth is evident to me as well. There's gonna be some chances for league wins but some games we just aren't gonna have the horses. Just seems really tricky to put a number on what consists of a "good job" and be confident in that number.

Edit: updated numbers
 
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#372
#372
Dallasbowlin said:
Agreed as well. I'd really like to win a national championship before I die. Lol
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That's like a KY football fan saying this about their gridiron team. The only basketball tournament that we have won since Don DeVoe won the 1st renewal of the SEC tournament in 1979 was the preseason NIT when Bruce was here. No matter what you think about Donnie Tyndall, he said that he intended to bring a NC back to Knoxville. I believe that he was serious, however he never had a chance to prove it due to the infractions at USM.

It's going to take a coach that really believes that we can be on that stage. Right now, we have a coach who should be in a rocking chair rather than pacing the sideline at TBA. Players play for a leader and give it their all. I saw this last season when we had several upsets and were competitive in several games where we did not get the "W". At least the coach got up off the bench!
 
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#373
#373
buzz4tennessee said:
That's like a KY football fan saying this about their gridiron team. The only basketball tournament that we have won since Don DeVoe won the 1st renewal of the SEC tournament in 1979 was the preseason NIT when Bruce was here. No matter what you think about Donnie Tyndall, he said that he intended to bring a NC back to Knoxville. I believe that he was serious, however he never had a chance to prove it due to the infractions at USM.

It's going to take a coach that really believes that we can be on that stage. Right now, we have a coach who should be in a rocking chair rather than pacing the sideline at TBA. Players play for a leader and give it their all. I saw this last season when we had several upsets and were competitive in several games where we did not get the "W". At least the coach got up off the bench!
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He also said he did nothing wrong at USM; so his talks is cheap.

Also if a guy just proclaiming he wants to win championships is all you need to think he's some great coach, then I guess you were fainting from excitement for guys like Kiffin and Dooley.
 
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#374
#374
VolsSportsFan said:
He also said he did nothing wrong at USM; so his talks is cheap.

Also if a guy just proclaiming he wants to win championships is all you need to think he's some great coach, then I guess you were fainting from excitement for guys like Kiffin and Dooley.
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I bet if I actually knew you, that I could find something good to say about you. However, it would not be about the way you attack people without justification.

At least Tyndall showed enthusiasm for being in Knoxville, whereas Barnes was excited that after being fired he was able to land a job in a respected conference. I believe that this was because Hart was the ONLY AD that used absolutely no judgement by hiring him. Tyndall was the only coach willing to take a job at a school that had dared to have a large number of fans who signed a petition to fire their former coach.

Tyndall was not only excited to get the chance to coach on a big stage, he felt confident that he could bring success to the school on the big stage. You would have to listen to both news conferences in order to see what I am saying. They are both archived at UTsports.com.

All that Barnes could say was, "I'm so excited, I just can't hide it, I'm about to lose control and I think I like it"!
 
#375
#375
buzz4tennessee said:
That's like a KY football fan saying this about their gridiron team. The only basketball tournament that we have won since Don DeVoe won the 1st renewal of the SEC tournament in 1979 was the preseason NIT when Bruce was here. No matter what you think about Donnie Tyndall, he said that he intended to bring a NC back to Knoxville. I believe that he was serious, however he never had a chance to prove it due to the infractions at USM.

It's going to take a coach that really believes that we can be on that stage. Right now, we have a coach who should be in a rocking chair rather than pacing the sideline at TBA. Players play for a leader and give it their all. I saw this last season when we had several upsets and were competitive in several games where we did not get the "W". At least the coach got up off the bench!
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Your an idiot if you think Barnes shouldn't be coaching at TBA or anywhere else. He is getting more out of these players the Tyndall would have this year. Go support Tennessee Wesleyan.
 
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